17:32:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:32:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-aria-irc
17:32:44 <janina> pesent+ Janina
17:32:49 <janina> present+ Janina
17:32:59 <MichielBijl> present+ MichielBijl fesch
17:33:18 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
17:33:23 <MichielBijl> present+ AmeliaBR Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:33:30 <Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0466.html
17:34:12 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:34:22 <Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0466.html
17:34:44 <MichielBijl> present+ Michael_Cooper
17:35:10 <MichielBijl> scribe: MichielBijl
17:35:30 <MichielBijl> topic: Combobox
17:35:41 <Stefan> Stefan has joined #aria
17:35:48 <MichielBijl> topic: not combobox
17:36:16 <Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0466.html
17:36:35 <MichielBijl> action-2021
17:36:35 <trackbot> action-2021 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Draft text for default max and min spinbutton values -- due 2016-02-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:36:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2021
17:36:46 <MichielBijl> topic: Action 2021
17:36:56 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:36:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-aria-minutes.html MichielBijl
17:36:57 <Rich> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action-2021/aria/aria.html#spinbutton
17:38:05 <MichielBijl> RS: min/max negative values?
17:38:11 <MichielBijl> RS: What is changed?
17:38:28 <MichielBijl> JD: min/max size maybe
17:38:39 <MichielBijl> JD: Exposure does not belong in spec
17:39:13 <MichielBijl> RS: Does the author know different values based on platform?
17:39:17 <MichielBijl> JD: Author doesn't know
17:39:20 <joanie> Authors must set the aria-valuenow attribute. Authors should set the aria-valuemin attribute when its value is greater than negative infinity, and the aria-valuemax attribute when its value is less than positive infinity. If missing or not a number, the implicit values of these attributes are as follows:
17:39:25 <joanie> The implicit value of aria-valuemin is negative infinity.
17:39:28 <joanie> The implicit value of aria-valuemax is positive infinity.
17:39:30 <joanie> The implicit value of aria-valuenow is 0.
17:39:59 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria
17:40:24 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
17:40:51 <MichielBijl> RS: Have some text “if you leave them out, UA will set them”
17:41:13 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #aria
17:41:26 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
17:41:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-aria-minutes.html jamesn
17:41:33 <MichielBijl> AB: Have not setting values default to infinity sounds logical to me
17:41:51 <MichielBijl> present+ James_Nurthen
17:42:28 <MichielBijl> JD: I've had two shots at this and have not maybe everyone happy
17:42:30 <clown> +1 to joanie's proposal
17:42:35 <MichielBijl> RS: I'm happy
17:42:35 <Rich> q?
17:43:20 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:43:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-aria-minutes.html joanie
17:43:20 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:43:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-aria-minutes.html MichielBijl
17:43:30 <Rich> RRSAgent, make log public
17:43:35 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
17:43:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-aria-minutes.html jamesn
17:44:08 <MichielBijl> RS: joanie you said the HTML spec doesn't mention it?
17:44:26 <MichielBijl> JS: they use undefined
17:44:39 <MichielBijl> AB: Whether you want to require a numeric range
17:44:54 <MichielBijl> AB: It will always be limited by how the implementation is storing the number
17:45:27 <MichielBijl> AB: Can you asure authors that you can store 5.124.131.123?
17:45:47 <MichielBijl> JD: My spec says that if it's less than infinite the author needs to specify it.
17:45:55 <janina> suggest "value is infinite, whether positive or negative."
17:45:56 <jamesn> how about this? "Authors must set the aria-valuenow attribute. Authors should set the aria-valuemin attribute when there is a minimum value, and the aria-valuemax attribute when there is a maximum value. If missing or not a number, the implicit values of these attributes are as follows:"
17:46:23 <jamesn> "The implicit value of aria-valuemin is that there is no minimum value"
17:46:31 <MichielBijl> all: that's fine
17:47:00 <MichielBijl> JD: Does that mean there is no implicit value?
17:47:13 <MichielBijl> JN: In reality it's the same, no?
17:47:26 <MichielBijl> JN: You're not going to write infinite numbers into the API
17:47:29 <MichielBijl> JN: Hope not
17:47:32 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria
17:47:43 <MichielBijl> JS: Math libraries have done this
17:48:09 <MichielBijl> *infinite discussion about infinity*
17:48:47 <MichielBijl> RS: I don't have a problem with James' text
17:48:56 <janina> +1
17:49:18 <Rich> +1
17:49:20 <MichielBijl> JD: So are we using James' text?
17:49:21 <jamesn> +1
17:49:21 <MichielBijl> +1
17:49:56 <fesch> +1
17:50:36 <MichielBijl> RESOLUTION: Take James' proposal to modify Joanies proposal.
17:50:44 <MichielBijl> action-1489
17:50:44 <trackbot> action-1489 -- Michael Cooper to Propose spec text to limit what aria attributes can be overridden by strong native semantics (e.g., aria-label and aria-labelledby) -- due 2016-02-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:50:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1489
17:50:46 <MichielBijl> topic Action 1489
17:50:49 <MichielBijl> topic: Action 1489
17:51:10 <clown> action-1489
17:51:10 <trackbot> action-1489 -- Michael Cooper to Propose spec text to limit what aria attributes can be overridden by strong native semantics (e.g., aria-label and aria-labelledby) -- due 2016-02-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:51:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1489
17:51:26 <MichielBijl> JS: Host language can do preemptive changes
17:52:01 <Rich> https://github.com/w3c/aria/commit/0b9ebc94afa85fcfb281bab88b9dacd2a88111c7
17:52:32 <MichielBijl> MC: Just added note to end of section
17:52:35 <ShaneM> zakim, agenda?
17:52:35 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
17:52:50 <jongund_> jongund_ has joined #aria
17:53:10 <ShaneM> present+ ShaneM
17:53:32 <MichielBijl> RS: If it's non-normative it can just go in
17:53:39 <MichielBijl> JS: Looked at original issue
17:53:50 <MichielBijl> JS: From James Craig, wants to create a whitelist
17:53:58 <MichielBijl> JS: That can't be overwritten
17:54:24 <clown> "Host Conflict Semantics potentially allow host languages to overwrite @aria-label, which could break text alternative computation. ARIA 1.1 should disallow host languages from declaring @aria-label* (and aria-described*?) from being declared in direct semantic conflict with a host language attribute."
17:54:30 <MichielBijl> chair: Rich
17:55:23 <MichielBijl> Meeting: ARIA Working Group
17:55:33 <MichielBijl> RS: Get back to it next week Michael?
17:55:40 <MichielBijl> MC: We'll see next week
17:57:05 <MichielBijl> topic: Action 1730
17:57:07 <MichielBijl> action-1730
17:57:07 <trackbot> action-1730 -- Michael Cooper to Draft ¨deprecated¨ section for conformance section of spec -- due 2015-10-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:57:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1730
17:57:22 <Rich> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1730/aria/aria.html#deprecated
17:57:29 <MichielBijl> MC: not needed? there is nothing that says it's deprecated.
17:57:52 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:57:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-aria-minutes.html MichielBijl
17:58:25 <MichielBijl> RS: Don't think we have to put that in the list of terms?
17:58:41 <MichielBijl> s/Don't/Do you/
17:58:49 <MichielBijl> MC: Maybe we don't need both
17:59:00 <MichielBijl> JD: We already have this in the list
17:59:11 <MichielBijl> RS: I don't think we need the text Michael
17:59:20 <MichielBijl> MC: I think it's useful to have it in the text
17:59:27 <MichielBijl> MC: Still something you need to support
17:59:34 <MichielBijl> MC: Can be removed down the road
17:59:42 <MichielBijl> JD: Other specs have that in the conformance part
18:00:06 <MichielBijl> MC: I think it's useful to keep it in the conformance part
18:00:10 <MichielBijl> MC: Let's keep both
18:00:11 <joanie> +1 to keeping both
18:00:32 <ShaneM> +1 but I would have 3.5 point to the definition
18:01:19 <ShaneM> remember that the ID for a definition is dfn-<term>
18:02:12 <joanie> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-grabbed links to the term
18:03:02 <MichielBijl> RS: Any objections?
18:03:08 <ShaneM> +1 to having the term point to the conformance requirement.  It might also be possible to have respec notice if a link is broken.
18:04:16 <MichielBijl> PROPOSAL: Accept Michael's enhancement to the specification and add text to the term for definition to reference the normative text for…
18:07:16 <ShaneM> Rawgit is showing it now.  You might also put <a>deprecated</a> in the conformance section - so they link both ways
18:07:31 <MichielBijl> AB: Shows up in every spec?
18:07:36 <MichielBijl> MC: Only those that link to it
18:08:43 <MichielBijl> PROPOSAL: Accept Michael's enhancement to the specification and add text to the term for definition to reference the normative text for deprecated.
18:09:07 <MichielBijl> PROPOSAL: Accept Michael's enhancement to the specification and add text to the term for deprecated to reference the normative text for deprecated.
18:10:47 <MichielBijl> RESOLUTION: Accept Michael's enhancement to the specification and add text to the term for deprecated to reference the conformance subsection on deprecated.
18:11:15 <MichielBijl> topic: Action 1723
18:11:20 <MichielBijl> action-1723
18:11:20 <trackbot> action-1723 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Editorial - create sections listing the roles that provide (1) nameFrom:author and (2) nameFrom:contents -- due 2016-02-24 -- OPEN
18:11:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1723
18:11:47 <MichielBijl> topic: Action 1743
18:11:49 <MichielBijl> action-1743
18:11:49 <trackbot> action-1743 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Put aria-activedescendant on application and request wg review -- due 2016-02-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:11:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1743
18:12:03 <MichielBijl> JD: That's done
18:12:17 <MichielBijl> RS: Addition of attr
18:12:22 <MichielBijl> RS: Any text added?
18:13:29 <fesch>  https://github.com/w3c/aria/commit/f7220c213
18:13:35 <MichielBijl> *crickets*
18:15:43 <ShaneM> 3.2.97 works
18:15:50 <MichielBijl> *discussion about ReSpec breaking the web*
18:16:41 <MichielBijl> JD: Before under application
18:16:53 <MichielBijl> JD: It had a list of three different things you can do
18:17:31 <MichielBijl> JD: *reading diff out loud*
18:18:05 <MichielBijl> JD: We have to tell them what to do, and they have to manage focus
18:18:17 <MichielBijl> JD: Questions about that?
18:18:32 <joanie> Manage focus of descendants as described in Managing Focus, updating the value of aria-activedescendant to reference the element containing the focused content.
18:18:59 <Rich> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/ACTION-1730/aria/aria.html#deprecated
18:20:15 <ShaneM> old versions of ReSpec are NOT on the W3C Tools server.  I just checked.  UGGH
18:20:29 <MichaelC> Reachable from rawgit URI: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w3c/respec/develop/builds/respec-w3c-common-3.2.97.js
18:20:59 <MichaelC> We could make a global change in our repository, and revert it when respec is fixed
18:21:17 <MichielBijl> RS: You want to have one active descendant within the container
18:21:18 <MichaelC> with lots of colorful language in the commit message of course
18:21:26 <MichielBijl> RS: You can have it on a listbox
18:21:48 <MichielBijl> JS: Where is the real focus?
18:21:54 <MichielBijl> RS: Would be on the combobox
18:22:03 <MichielBijl> JS: Does that have active descendant?
18:22:17 <MichielBijl> BG: Point to role=option
18:24:45 <MichielBijl> BG: You're supposed to point at role=option, otherwise it's an author error
18:25:05 <MichielBijl> RS: If we have active descendant on role=application, we could have a problem
18:25:35 <MichielBijl> BG: If you're in role=application, and you're in role=textbox, you'd have to script the whole thing in there. And it wouldn't work on mobile anyway
18:25:47 <MichielBijl> BG: Where as if you just set focus to it, you get that for free.
18:25:52 <MichielBijl> BG so, spec that out.
18:26:00 <MichielBijl> RS: I have concerns about that.
18:28:14 <jongund> I can
18:28:27 <jongund> JN: Active descendant doesn't apply
18:28:35 <MichielBijl> scribe: jongund
18:28:49 <jongund> fred: No way to identify the widget
18:29:29 <jongund> FE: There is no reference to another types of widget, when role=application
18:29:36 <MichielBijl> s/fred/BG/
18:29:43 <MichielBijl> s/FE/BG/
18:29:52 <jongund> JS: When it is a list box you know the required role
18:30:01 <jongund> JN: I am not sure hwy that matters
18:30:15 <jongund> FE: The SR only know what it is
18:30:19 <MichielBijl> s/FE/BG/
18:30:34 <jongund> JN: SR will read the role of what is being pointing to with aria-activedescendant
18:31:00 <clown> s/When it is a list box you know the required role/When it is a list box you know the role of the active descendant is an option/
18:31:09 <jongund> RS: Would take precedence over the other one
18:31:26 <jongund> RS: If you have it on role application, it can point to anything
18:32:03 <jongund> JN: What every has focus will be what active-descendent
18:32:30 <jongund> JN: Nest activedescendant would be wierd
18:32:33 <jongund> RS: yes
18:32:42 <jongund> BG: Anywhere in the combo box
18:32:47 <joanie> s/Nest/Nested/
18:33:13 <jongund> JN: Special cases for combobox is special case, we should be consistent
18:33:32 <jongund> BG: If we allow for combobox they will start to use it other places
18:34:33 <jongund> BG: Having active-descendant work different on combobox
18:34:48 <jongund> BG: It will hijack ....
18:35:34 <jongund> Joanie: I don't get the example, I thought we were talking about AD on application
18:36:19 <jongund> BG: If you have role=combobox on ancestor, the input box has focus
18:36:35 <jongund> BG: The browser can only pick one
18:37:10 <jongund> JG: Can we change the definition of combox
18:38:00 <jongund> BG: I think we are making it much more complicated than it needs to be
18:38:30 <jongund> RS: It just happens to work on the input box
18:38:46 <jongund> Joanie: What happens when you have multiple elements with AD
18:39:12 <jongund> Joanie: What if you have a custom list box with AD
18:39:41 <jongund> BG: If you press that native  .... would have to be scripted in
18:39:47 <clown> q?
18:40:00 <jongund> BG: It you used role=application it would not need to go to the edit field
18:40:26 <janina> +1 to Amelia
18:40:56 <jongund> ABR: I haven't done alot of building widget, if something has AD but not focus is it is ignored
18:41:04 <jongund> JS: I believe that too
18:41:46 <jongund> JS: Dojo widgets seem to use AD and it used AD to maintain focus state of complex widgets
18:42:19 <jongund> Janina: I wanted that feature, AL said it was tough to do
18:42:36 <jongund> Joanie: Depends on the widget
18:43:01 <jongund> JS: When you reload a page, unless it sitting in the cache
18:43:10 <jongund> Joanie: There is some caching
18:43:21 <jongund> Joanie: What is the next step
18:43:30 <jongund> Jania: I have to leave early
18:43:52 <jongund> JS: Let's think about this for another week
18:44:03 <jongund> JS: It would be good if matt were here
18:44:28 <jongund> RS: This is the other action, ProSpec what strong semantics can be overridden
18:44:31 <Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1489
18:44:40 <jongund> MC: I was not sure the specific issue
18:45:02 <jongund> RS: I don't think we should let the plateform should be able to override
18:45:22 <jongund> RS: aria-label, aria-labelledby, may aria-describeby
18:45:51 <jongund> MC: I am not sure why this is an action to me, is there anything else we want to protect?
18:46:01 <jongund> JS: aria-checked (tri-state)
18:46:22 <jongund> RS: We have a desc, in SVG
18:46:32 <jongund> RS: Authors have to put these in
18:47:01 <jongund> JN: They should implement the naming algorithms
18:47:18 <jongund> Amelia: It is a matter of priorties
18:47:59 <jongund> Amelia: aria-labelledby takes precedence... makes sure that there is a reference to the calculation spec
18:48:18 <jongund> RS: I think we want consistent priorities for SVG
18:48:50 <jongund> FE: ... mapping
18:49:05 <jongund> JS: It is the accessible name property period
18:49:12 <jongund> RS: Let give you a new date
18:49:35 <jongund> MC: Let's put next week at the date, but it is lower priority than pub stuff
18:50:00 <jongund> RS: CS on password role, send a note to list
18:50:19 <jongund> RS: MS doesn't seem to have any issue
18:50:34 <clown> s/It is the accessible name property period/AXAPI  mapping of a name property depends on whether the label is visible; for other AAPIs, it's the accessible name property period/
18:50:38 <jongund> Joanie: JF wants edits in the text, longer
18:50:51 <jongund> RSL We will talk about next week, may not make the date
18:50:58 <clown> action-1513?
18:50:58 <trackbot> action-1513 -- Michael Cooper to Set up ARIA 1.1 Requirements draft -- due 2016-02-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:50:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1513
18:51:01 <jongund> MC: I think I am done
18:51:17 <MichaelC> http://w3c.github.io/aria/requirements/aria-requirements.html
18:51:31 <jongund> MC: The requirements had existed, but I populated them with some content
18:51:47 <jongund> MC: .... reading updates test ....
18:52:03 <jongund> MC: DId I say anything we should not being doing
18:52:13 <jongund> JS: There are 6 requirements
18:53:09 <jongund> MC: The longdesc is removed from HTML5, but is in an extension
18:53:20 <jongund> RS: I think you need to say something about SVG
18:53:36 <jongund> RS: SVG2 is using ARIA 1.1 into their spec
18:53:48 <jongund> RS: We are trying to help them support ARIA 1.1
18:54:28 <jongund> Amelia: It needs to include SVG host language
18:54:33 <clown> "extended to SVG 2.0"?
18:54:47 <jongund> MC: I am trying to find the branch for this, missed comments
18:54:56 <jongund> RS: I am calling it a day
18:54:58 <clown> "extended to include SVG2.0"?
18:55:07 <jongund> RS: SVG is part of what we are doing
18:55:17 <jongund> MC: Can people repeat that
18:55:24 <jongund> Amelia: I will draft text
18:55:32 <jongund> RS: I am calling it a day
18:55:42 <jongund> rrsgant, draft minutes
18:55:50 <jongund> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:55:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/03-aria-minutes.html jongund
18:55:58 <AmeliaBR> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/136
18:56:13 <jongund> I will post them
18:57:14 <jongund> Michiel are you going to post then?
19:06:12 <MichielBijl> I see you did, thanks jongund!
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