13:58:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webtv
13:58:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-webtv-irc
13:58:55 <JF> JF has joined #webtv
14:00:17 <yosuke> yosuke has joined #webtv
14:00:46 <yosuke> agenda?
14:02:25 <kaz> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-web-and-tv/2016Mar/0000.html
14:03:32 <JF> agenda?
14:03:57 <kaz> agenda?
14:04:07 <kaz> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:04:07 <Zakim> agendum 1. "architecture" taken up [from kaz]
14:04:20 <alexandra-mikityuk> agenda + invited and new guests
14:04:33 <yosuke> rrsagent, make logs public
14:04:40 <yosuke> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:04:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-webtv-minutes.html yosuke
14:04:42 <alexandra-mikityuk> agenda?
14:05:02 <yosuke> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:05:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-webtv-minutes.html yosuke
14:05:14 <alexandra-mikityuk> agenda + Use Cases  (Communication)
14:05:27 <yosuke> Chair: Alexandra
14:05:32 <alexandra-mikityuk> agenda + Cloud 360
14:05:42 <alexandra-mikityuk> agenda + new Use Cases
14:05:49 <alexandra-mikityuk> agenda + orga
14:05:51 <kaz> present+ Kaz, Alex, Colin, John, Yosuke
14:05:53 <alexandra-mikityuk> agenda?
14:06:04 <yosuke> Title: Web and TV IG: Cloud Browser TF call
14:06:12 <yosuke> presenta+
14:06:13 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:06:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-webtv-minutes.html kaz
14:06:37 <kaz> Meeting: Web and TV IG: Cloud Browser TF call
14:06:37 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:06:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-webtv-minutes.html kaz
14:06:54 <yosuke> present+ JF
14:07:08 <yosuke> zakim, who is here
14:07:08 <Zakim> yosuke, you need to end that query with '?'
14:07:16 <yosuke> zakim, who is here?
14:07:16 <Zakim> Present: Kaz, Alex, Colin, John, Yosuke, JF
14:07:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see yosuke, JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, alexandra-mikityuk, Karen, kaz, tobie, trackbot, sangwhan, timeless
14:08:21 <kaz> present+ Louay
14:08:35 <yosuke> zakim, pick up the victim
14:08:36 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick up the victim', yosuke
14:08:55 <kaz> zakim, please pick up a victim
14:08:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please pick up a victim', kaz
14:09:03 <kaz> zakim, please pick up victim
14:09:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please pick up victim', kaz
14:09:08 <JF> zakim, please pick a victim
14:09:08 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose JF
14:09:11 <kaz> zakim, please pick up a scribe
14:09:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please pick up a scribe', kaz
14:09:39 <colin> colin has joined #webtv
14:09:58 <kaz> zakim, please pick a victim
14:09:58 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Alex
14:10:18 <kaz> zakim, please pick a victim
14:10:18 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kaz
14:10:29 <kaz> scribenick: ka
14:10:34 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
14:10:59 <Louay_> Louay_ has joined #webtv
14:11:15 <kaz> alexandra: is Entlix people online?
14:11:20 <kaz> kaz: don't think so
14:11:21 <JF> Zakim, John is JF
14:11:22 <Zakim> sorry, JF, I do not recognize a party named 'John'
14:11:30 <Nilo_Mitra> Nilo_Mitra has joined #webtv
14:11:33 <JF> zakim, who is here?
14:11:33 <Zakim> Present: Kaz, Alex, Colin, John, Yosuke, JF, Louay
14:11:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see Nilo_Mitra, Louay_, colin, yosuke, JF, RRSAgent, Zakim, alexandra-mikityuk, Karen, kaz, tobie, trackbot, sangwhan, timeless
14:12:00 <Nilo_Mitra> anyone got the webex link handy?
14:12:04 <kaz> present+ Harrison
14:12:19 <yosuke> We can't share here Nilo.
14:12:32 <yosuke> It's a member confidential but this IRC is public.
14:12:38 <Nilo_Mitra> ok...thanks
14:13:30 <yosuke> I can share the link to the member restricted web page about it.
14:13:48 <kaz> harrison: from Entrix
14:13:58 <kaz> present+ Kumanan
14:14:38 <kaz> harrison: appreciate your have changed the time slot
14:14:50 <kaz> ... working for Entrix, one of the subsidiaries of SK Telecom
14:15:26 <kaz> ... targeting US, China and South Asia, etc.
14:15:35 <kaz> ... would like to make contribution as much as possible
14:15:45 <kaz> alex: tx!
14:15:47 <kaz> q?
14:16:19 <kaz> alex: please introduce yourself to Harrison :)
14:16:37 <kaz> kaz: from W3C
14:16:47 <Nilo_Mitra> got it, thanks to all of you
14:17:00 <kaz> colin: from Activevideo, Invited Expert
14:17:10 <Louay_> present+ Louay_Bassbouss
14:17:36 <kaz> john: from DQ system, here for accessibility
14:17:39 <kaz> ... security, privacy, etc.
14:17:57 <kaz> present+ Nilo
14:18:01 <kaz> rragent, draft minutes
14:18:12 <kaz> ... W3C WAI domain
14:18:46 <kaz> kumanan: CTO from Espial
14:18:59 <kaz> ... server software for IPTV and Cable TV
14:19:04 <JF> s/... security, privacy, etc./accessibility is like security and privacy, it needs to be architectural
14:19:06 <kaz> ... cloud browser technology
14:19:28 <kaz> louay: from Fraunhofer FOKUS
14:19:38 <kaz> ... multi-screen domain
14:19:49 <JF> s/DQ system/Deque System
14:19:52 <kaz> ... relationship to W3C's second screen APIs
14:20:24 <kaz> nilo: from Ericsson
14:20:34 <kaz> present+ So
14:20:56 <kaz> so: head of advanced technology from NAB
14:21:13 <kaz> ... migrating broadcasting with IP platform
14:21:37 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:21:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-webtv-minutes.html kaz
14:21:43 <kaz> yosuke: from W3C
14:22:14 <kaz> ... also one of the co-Chairs of the Web&TV IG, TV Vertical Champion and Team Contact for the Media Extensions WG
14:22:32 <alexandra-mikityuk> agenda?
14:22:36 <kaz> alexandra: have short agenda
14:23:15 <kaz> ... architecture and use cases
14:23:28 <kaz> ... emails during the last 2 weeks
14:23:36 <kaz> ... use cases presented by Colin
14:24:05 <kaz> ... if you have any addition, please speak up
14:24:28 <kaz> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:24:28 <Zakim> agendum 1. "architecture" taken up [from kaz]
14:24:40 <alexandra-mikityuk> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page/Cloud_Browser_TF/Architecture#Architecture
14:26:37 <kaz> alex: would see use cases and clarify what kind of architecture is required
14:26:52 <kaz> ... what kind of different architectures are possible
14:27:20 <Nilo_Mitra> q+
14:27:47 <kaz> ... the goal of this TF is not defining the architecture itself
14:27:53 <kaz> ... but to see use cases
14:28:47 <kaz> ... the terminology we use this time, e.g., in-band media
14:29:16 <kaz> ... you can see we've done so far
14:29:26 <Nilo_Mitra> q+
14:29:38 <kaz> ... there is some description on the wiki with some diagram
14:29:44 <Nilo_Mitra> i have a question, please
14:29:46 <kaz> q?
14:30:07 <kaz> ack nilo
14:30:27 <kaz> nilo: difficult to understand...
14:30:58 <kaz> ... regarding terminology
14:31:27 <kaz> ... TV local UI could be broken up into one version of a thin client
14:32:01 <kaz> alex: much noise on your line...
14:32:12 <kaz> ... asking about the terminology section?
14:32:36 <kaz> ... would propose to see the email exchange
14:33:19 <kaz> ... good to have discussion now
14:33:28 <kaz> nilo: we have to have definition clearly
14:33:47 <kaz> ... "zero client" makes sense
14:34:07 <kaz> ... but "TV local UI" using middleware is unclear
14:34:43 <kaz> ... the language "local" is a bit odd
14:34:49 <JF> +1 to a clearer understanding of native client
14:35:00 <yosuke> q+
14:35:22 <kaz> q?
14:35:44 <kaz> alex: within the cloud browser concept
14:36:00 <kaz> ... the thickness of the client matters
14:36:18 <kaz> ... bigger client functionality implies "local UI"
14:36:37 <kaz> q?
14:36:37 <kaz> q+
14:36:59 <kaz> Colin: don't have strong opinion on the naming
14:37:09 <kaz> nilo: the terminology is very important
14:37:18 <kaz> ... we're going to use the terminology
14:37:36 <kaz> colin: agree
14:37:38 <kaz> q?
14:37:40 <JF> +1 to Nilo, shared terms and understanding is very important
14:38:00 <alexandra-mikityuk> q?
14:38:13 <kaz> ack y
14:38:18 <kaz> yosuke: just fyi
14:38:30 <kaz> ... I'm familiar with terminology for TV
14:39:14 <kaz> ... can provide some language for the terminology definition
14:39:25 <JF> Q+ to propose a matrix, which shows this TF's term choices, and then a "thesaurus" of sorts
14:39:36 <alexandra-mikityuk> q?
14:40:07 <Louay_> q+
14:40:41 <kaz> kaz: similar to John
14:40:57 <kaz> ... but would suggest we have a matrix table of idea vs. terminology
14:41:07 <kaz> ... also should consider the features for each idea
14:41:18 <yosuke> [From the PoV of TV manufactures,  the first one => Middleware UI, the second one => Resident (Native) application if it's not HTML, HTML application if it's HTML]
14:41:42 <kaz> john: would suggest we create a table with 3 columns, and put brief definition of what each terminology means
14:41:58 <alexandra-mikityuk> q?
14:42:16 <kaz> ... people can make contribution to the wiki directly
14:42:18 <kaz> ack k
14:42:19 <kaz> ack J
14:42:19 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to propose a matrix, which shows this TF's term choices, and then a "thesaurus" of sorts
14:42:48 <yosuke> John: https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page/Cloud_Browser_TF/Architecture#Terminology
14:42:52 <kaz> alex: would suggest people put their ideas on the Terminology section directly
14:43:12 <kaz> john: happy to put something
14:43:16 <alexandra-mikityuk> q?
14:43:20 <kaz> ... and others also can make contribution
14:43:26 <kaz> adk l
14:43:28 <kaz> ack l
14:43:34 <kaz> louay: comment on Runtime
14:44:03 <kaz> ... the current description "runs the cloud browser and usually exist on actual hardware"
14:44:22 <kaz> ... runtime environment is on the client side, isn't it?
14:44:25 <kaz> alex: yes
14:44:49 <kaz> louay: also missing user component
14:44:57 <kaz> ... capability to interact with user
14:45:05 <kaz> ... need to send user input to the cloud
14:45:49 <kaz> alex: tx
14:45:54 <kaz> ... that's a good comment
14:45:57 <yosuke> q?
14:46:14 <kaz> ... about user input, good to mention that within the architecture diagram
14:46:28 <kaz> ... very good to describe communication use cases
14:46:42 <kaz> ... would put that as my action item
14:46:51 <alexandra-mikityuk> q?
14:46:55 <kaz> action: alexandra to put use input into the architecture diagram
14:46:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-215 - Put use input into the architecture diagram [on Alexandra Mikityuk - due 2016-03-09].
14:47:19 <kaz> agenda?
14:47:31 <kaz> zakim, take up agendum 3
14:47:32 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Use Cases  (Communication)" taken up [from alexandra-mikityuk]
14:47:48 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page/Cloud_Browser_TF/UseCases Use Case wiki
14:48:29 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page/Cloud_Browser_TF/UseCases/communication use case (communication)
14:48:56 <kaz> colin: general use case of input
14:49:00 <kaz> ... and output
14:49:22 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page/Cloud_Browser_TF/UseCases/communication#input Input
14:49:38 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page/Cloud_Browser_TF/UseCases/communication#output Output
14:49:42 <kaz> colin: is that a correct way?
14:50:03 <JF> Q+
14:50:20 <kaz> alex: want you to briefly present the use cases
14:50:45 <kaz> ... let me share the screen
14:51:02 <kaz> ... (alex shares her screen)
14:51:27 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page/Cloud_Browser_TF/UseCases Main Use case wiki
14:51:52 <kaz> alex: there is "communication" section
14:52:06 <kaz> ... for Use cases for communication
14:52:24 <kaz> ... signaling, session, video
14:53:15 <kaz> (alex rejoined)
14:53:36 <kaz> alex: video and audio
14:54:05 <kaz> ... user interface, service
14:54:15 <kaz> ... and security including EME and cloud ca
14:54:26 <kaz> john: what is "Cloud CA"?
14:54:38 <kaz> alex: different conditional access
14:55:01 <kaz> ... on the cloud side
14:55:10 <kaz> ... there are different systems
14:55:26 <kaz> ... some of them are downloadable
14:55:34 <kaz> john: ok
14:55:52 <kaz> ... struggling to provide comments from accessibility
14:55:53 <kaz> q?
14:56:07 <kaz> ... trying get behind the display
14:56:15 <kaz> ... might want to use different modalities
14:56:29 <kaz> ... what if you can't use usual pointer devices?
14:56:51 <kaz> ... happy to provide those kind of use case stories
14:56:54 <kaz> alex: got it
14:57:07 <yosuke> q+
14:57:22 <yosuke> ack J
14:57:26 <kaz> ... where should we put that kind of requirements?
14:57:36 <kaz> ... interact with our systems
14:57:42 <kaz> ... accessibility use case?
14:57:52 <kaz> john: want to be careful
14:58:00 <kaz> ... you have requirement in US
14:58:12 <kaz> ... people with disability to access video
14:58:36 <kaz> ... long-standing policy of all the specs from W3C have accessibility reviews
14:58:53 <kaz> ... the goal is avoiding accessibility barrier
14:59:08 <kaz> q+
14:59:38 <kaz> ... our plan is working with you from the early stage
14:59:45 <Bill_Rose> Bill_Rose has joined #webtv
15:00:10 <kaz> ... because you're doing requirements gathering
15:00:25 <kaz> ... would propose we understand the issues of accessibility as well
15:00:38 <kaz> ... think me as a resource for accessibility
15:00:54 <kaz> ... how things interact with people
15:01:02 <kaz> ... interested in your UA layer
15:01:41 <kaz> ... but the UI for blind person, etc., may affect additional software
15:02:39 <Julian_Sitkevich> Julian_Sitkevich has joined #webtv
15:02:55 <yosuke> q-
15:02:55 <kaz> ... from architectural viewpoint, do you have vision on accessibility?
15:03:27 <kaz> alex: have to read documents you provided
15:03:34 <kaz> ... accessibility API, etc.
15:03:44 <kaz> ... don't have answers now
15:03:59 <kaz> ... we can extend the requirements
15:04:03 <yosuke> [Yosuke: MSE in Video is a bit misleading. MSE also deals with audio and texttracks. EME in Security is also a bit strange. It's all about Content Protection.]
15:04:04 <kaz> john: happy to contribute
15:04:28 <kaz> ... shadow DOM provides accessibility support for canvas
15:04:40 <kaz> ... was sort of background structure
15:04:55 <kaz> ... has accessibility API to connect to
15:05:05 <alexandra-mikityuk> q?
15:05:12 <kaz> alex: would put that as well on my action point
15:06:08 <alexandra-mikityuk> q?
15:06:15 <kaz> kaz: maybe we might want to consider media accessibility requirements as the part of this requirements document
15:06:19 <yosuke> ack k
15:06:19 <alexandra-mikityuk> q?
15:06:24 <kaz> john: provided some resources
15:06:31 <kaz> alex: ok
15:06:40 <kaz> ... would proceed with the Use Case wiki
15:06:57 <kaz> ... we can add modification to this
15:07:08 <kaz> ... would like to open up questions
15:07:18 <kaz> ... you can update the wiki directly
15:07:26 <kaz> ... or send your comments to the list
15:07:45 <kaz> colin: the structure is important
15:08:05 <kaz> ... important to have a couple of use cases
15:08:14 <kaz> ... would ask you all to put your use cases here
15:08:28 <JF> link to my previous email: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2016Feb/0020.html
15:08:35 <kaz> ... would be good to have John's accessibility portion too
15:09:21 <kaz> alex: Harrison, you may have some additions?
15:09:38 <kaz> harrison: let me add one comment to the terminology
15:10:41 <Julian_Sitkevich> +present
15:10:44 <kaz> ... identify if the rendering is done whether on the client side or the server side
15:10:49 <kaz> present+ Julian
15:10:51 <kaz> alex: tx
15:11:12 <kaz> harrison: would suggest update the terminology section
15:11:31 <kaz> ... client-side rendering vs. cloud-side rendering
15:11:48 <kaz> ... regarding the use cases wiki
15:12:13 <kaz> ... HbbTV 2.0 started services including two kinds
15:12:28 <kaz> ... reasonable categories
15:12:44 <kaz> ... broadcasting-dependent vs. broadcasting-independent
15:12:52 <kaz> alex: related to service use cases?
15:12:56 <kaz> harrison: right
15:13:23 <kaz> alex: what "broadcast" here means?
15:13:26 <Bill_Rose> present+ Bill_Rose
15:13:36 <kaz> harrison: implies linear video
15:13:50 <kaz> ... coming through the tuner
15:13:59 <kaz> ... the browser handles unicasting video
15:14:14 <kaz> ... but multicasting video is used for TV services
15:14:31 <kaz> ... linear video vs. multicast video
15:14:56 <kaz> alex: in this TF, would try browser API
15:15:06 <kaz> ... not sure about HbbTV approach
15:15:16 <kaz> ... but good to have that idea as well
15:15:53 <kaz> ... would add "linear vs multicast" to the terminology
15:16:03 <kaz> harrison: would try detailed description
15:16:07 <kaz> alex: great
15:16:20 <kaz> ... also "client-side vs. cloud-side" as well?
15:16:24 <kaz> harrison: yes
15:16:41 <alexandra-mikityuk> q?
15:17:03 <kaz> alex: question to Louay?
15:17:18 <kaz> ... multi-screen concept for cloud browser?
15:17:29 <kaz> louay: already had discussion here with my colleagues
15:18:20 <kaz> ... advantage with cloud browser is that it would be easier to handle multiple screens
15:18:28 <kaz> ... need capability of discovery
15:18:36 <kaz> ... on the set-top box
15:18:59 <kaz> ... by just providing the link to the cloud browser
15:19:24 <kaz> ... regarding 360-degree video
15:19:45 <kaz> ... you can use your smartphone to control multiple screens
15:20:20 <kaz> alex: synchronization locally
15:20:30 <kaz> ... important for gaming and cloud 360
15:20:45 <kaz> ... good to have an initial description
15:20:50 <JF> allowing a smart phone/device the ability to connect to your cloud browser *might* also help address many, if not all, of your accessibioity concerns as well, as it becomes a physical connection point (that starts out pretty accessible already)
15:20:51 <kaz> ... so that people can extend it
15:21:14 <kaz> s/accessibioity/accessibility/
15:22:16 <kaz> louay: we identify new requirements for cloud browser
15:22:49 <kaz> alex: as I proposed last time, during this week would have input for the architecture and use cases
15:22:55 <JF> Q+
15:23:05 <kaz> ... we got several action points during this call too
15:23:09 <kaz> q?
15:23:22 <kaz> ... we continue to work with the terminology section as well
15:23:35 <kaz> q?
15:23:37 <kaz> ack j
15:23:39 <JF> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page/Cloud_Browser_TF/Architecture#Terminology
15:23:49 <kaz> john: made a slight change to the wiki
15:24:30 <kaz> ... put a table with 3 columns, Term, Definition and Also known as
15:24:38 <kaz> nilo: would make contribution
15:24:51 <kaz> ... might want to change the first column, Term, itself, though
15:25:24 <alexandra-mikityuk> q?
15:25:36 <kaz> kaz: we can start with putting our own ideas to the "Also Known As" field :)
15:25:51 <kaz> alex: please put your name to the TF participants wiki
15:26:13 <alexandra-mikityuk> q?
15:26:26 <kaz> ... if you don't have any questions, additions or comments, we are done today
15:27:07 <kaz> ... next call in 2 weeks on March 16th.
15:27:09 <kaz> [ adjourned ]
15:27:37 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:27:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-webtv-minutes.html kaz
16:22:54 <JF> JF has left #webtv