14:38:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:38:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-lvtf-irc
14:38:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:38:16 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:38:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:38:17 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:38:17 <trackbot> Date: 02 March 2016
14:43:54 <allanj> chair: Jim & Andrew
14:44:09 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
14:44:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
14:44:43 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
14:46:47 <allanj> Agenda+ Contrast & Image accessibility
14:46:58 <allanj> zakim, clear agenda
14:46:58 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:47:03 <allanj> Agenda+ Contrast & Image accessibility
14:47:31 <allanj> Agenda+ Work with User Settings
14:47:57 <allanj> Agenda+  Point of Regard - Others?
14:54:56 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #lvtf
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15:22:26 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
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15:29:13 <allanj> regrets: shawn, srini, erich
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15:33:42 <AWK> ZAkim,, agenda?
15:33:42 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, AWK.
15:33:45 <AWK> ZAkim, agenda?
15:33:45 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:33:46 <Zakim> 3. Point of Regard - Others? [from allanj]
15:33:46 <Zakim> 2. Work with User Settings [from allanj]
15:33:46 <Zakim> 1. Contrast & Image accessibility [from allanj]
15:36:06 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #lvtf
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15:36:30 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Scribe_List
15:36:50 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
15:36:59 <allanj> present+Jim
15:37:25 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
15:38:08 <Wayne> scribe Wayne
15:38:20 <Wayne> scribe: Wayne
15:38:28 <allanj> agenda?
15:38:33 <AWK> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:38:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-lvtf-minutes.html AWK
15:38:39 <Wayne> zakim next item
15:38:46 <Wayne> zakim next topic
15:39:02 <Wayne> zakim, next item
15:39:03 <AWK> +AWK
15:39:03 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Point of Regard - Others?" taken up [from allanj]
15:39:05 <AWK> +Laura
15:39:11 <AWK> +Jeanne
15:39:27 <allanj> open item 1
15:39:30 <allanj> Topic: Contrast & Image accessibility
15:39:51 <AWK> Zakim, agenda order is 1,2,3
15:39:51 <Zakim> ok, AWK
15:40:48 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/LVTF_Open_Issues#Contrast_.26_Image_accessibility
15:43:03 <allanj> q+ to say icon fonts may fall in this area also
15:43:23 <jon_avila> q?
15:43:30 <Wayne> AWK: Text is clear and easier to resolve. But really rich images is quite difficult. My hope is provide flexibility without it being overwhelmin also be effective.
15:43:36 <jon_avila> q+
15:45:56 <Wayne> AWK: We have freedom in setting background and forground and not using color for meaning. There are graphs with lots of color, there are so many extra symbols. There is very complex data in quantititive graphs.
15:47:14 <JohnRochford> q+
15:47:26 <jon_avila> q?
15:47:30 <Wayne> ... opacity, complex symbolism. There needs to be room for inovation. Maybe there is more. There just needs a way for users to unpack it all.  Need is all the information needs to be packed up.
15:47:52 <allanj> awk
15:47:52 <AWK> ack j
15:48:02 <AWK> ack all
15:48:02 <Zakim> allanj, you wanted to say icon fonts may fall in this area also
15:48:51 <JohnRochford> q-
15:49:17 <Wayne> allanj: This brings up the icon discussions. Either image icons or unicode icons. Can we address these without calling them out explicitly.
15:49:27 <Wayne> q+
15:49:34 <AWK> ack jon
15:49:45 <Wayne> ... The user just wants to see it.
15:51:30 <AWK> ack way
15:51:40 <jon_avila> FYI I put my comments on the wiki
15:52:20 <AWK> Wayne: icons.  Wayne likes to keep print large and icons small
15:52:36 <AWK> ... low contrast icons are a problem, especially ones that provide directions to do something
15:52:52 <AWK> ... alistair made a good point that the meanings are not settled
15:53:16 <AWK> ... but having visible icons that don't take up real estate is valuable
15:53:19 <jon_avila> IMO emojis are used to communicate human language and details of emoji may be hard to see and need to be larger than text
15:53:35 <Wayne> jon: When difference in luminosity distinguishes luminosity. That is not well address. Difference in contrast must meet the contrast threshold. Complex maps. There are so many pattersn. Allow user to adjust  to hide data. Customizations that would benefit users with low
15:54:07 <Wayne> ... and everyone.
15:55:24 <jon_avila> action: jon avila to create user need for contrast differences
15:55:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-37 - Avila to create user need for contrast differences [on Jonathan Avila - due 2016-03-09].
15:56:31 <Wayne> AWK: Assume we are using color as the anchoring concept. Users can percieve all important information conveyed using color.
15:59:01 <Wayne> ... Not just images, but the core concept is (color?). The higher level is users can perceive all information... dreilling down users can percieve withoug relying on color. Add in other thatn color. A chart with a ping ... I'll use something other than color.  A lot will be dynamic.  There must be different approaches.
15:59:28 <Wayne> don't lose Jon's luminosity.
15:59:39 <jon_avila> User Need: When differences in luminosity are used to communicate meaning including active, selection, and focus states, the difference in luminosity is sufficient between different states or additional means other than luminosity are used to communicate meaning.
16:00:18 <Wayne> q+
16:00:52 <allanj> action: jim to review 3.1 contrast/color user needs
16:00:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-38 - Review 3.1 contrast/color user needs [on Jim Allan - due 2016-03-09].
16:02:03 <allanj> wayne: low vision users don't have access to @alt. use screen mag software to get access to @alt not for magnification
16:02:54 <allanj> wayne: need some mechanism for @alt to be revealed on screen
16:03:54 <jeanne> The importance of UAAG 2.0
16:06:34 <Wayne> AWK: Is access to alt text a user need or user solution? I lean toward solution.
16:07:16 <Wayne> ... On complex graphs it may be alternative data, or may be  access to alt-text.
16:07:18 <allanj> user need access to content/data, attributes, some other mechanism
16:10:06 <Wayne> zakim, next item
16:10:06 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Wayne
16:10:14 <AWK> queue?
16:10:17 <AWK> ack way
16:10:34 <Wayne> zakim, next item
16:10:34 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Work with User Settings" taken up [from allanj]
16:10:46 <allanj> topic: Work with User Settings
16:10:57 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/LVTF_Open_Issues#Work_with_User_Settings
16:13:01 <jon_avila> Yes, this is very nice, good job
16:13:11 <allanj> wayne: can't delete items in with large text and large mouse, must go to lesser magnification, to have access to the button.
16:14:22 <Wayne> AWK: If the enlargement tools could make the cursor go a way.  If you pressed an escape tool.
16:14:43 <Wayne> JohnR: Have never seen what you are describing.
16:14:47 <allanj> awk: perhaps mouse size tools could have a way to drop the size to normal, and then toggle back to expanded.
16:16:15 <Wayne> AWK: If the user had the information as to what is on the tip.
16:16:39 <Wayne> JohnR: Maybe it could be transparent.
16:16:56 <allanj> ja: seems a problem with mag tools. cannot make this happen with large os mouse pointer...tool tips are always placed in a readable location. Author, browser, and OS have no control over mag software.
16:18:10 <jon_avila> * have to step away for a minute
16:19:09 <JohnRochford> Clarification: By "it", I mean the "cursor" could be transparent.
16:19:46 <Wayne> Obscured information or functionaity with enlarged pointers and text.
16:20:35 <allanj> next item
16:20:42 <Wayne> ACTION: Craft user need on obscured perception and operability
16:20:42 <trackbot> Error finding 'Craft'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/track/users>.
16:20:54 <allanj> topic: Point of Regard - Others?
16:21:01 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/LVTF_Open_Issues#Point_of_Regard_-_Others.3F
16:23:02 <Wayne> Allanj: Modify the excellent image.
16:23:36 <jon_avila> * back
16:24:17 <Wayne> Allanj: Associated user needs: Users know about and can access information.
16:24:24 <Wayne> q+
16:25:23 <Wayne> AWK: There are areas that cannot work. The information can be to much to fit.  We need to modiry it so it does not have to fit into a 2cm circle.
16:25:30 <JohnRochford> Gotta go, folks.
16:25:45 <jon_avila> q+
16:25:58 <Wayne> allanj: There are thinks like tracks that take you to the objects.
16:26:14 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
16:26:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
16:26:21 <jon_avila> Section 508 refresh indicates 302.2 With Limited Vision. Where a visual mode of operation is provided, ICT shall provide at least one mode of operation that magnifies, one mode that that reduces the field of vision required, and one mode that allows user control of contrast.
16:27:02 <allanj> wayne: lv person functions like a screen reader user. SR have 1 word at a time, LV user has limited view
16:28:21 <allanj> wayne: this is important, how to find stuff. many messages, alerts are hidden.
16:28:48 <allanj> wayne: low vision users need similar information to SR users.
16:28:52 <allanj> ack way
16:28:56 <allanj> ack jon
16:29:39 <jon_avila> q-
16:30:15 <Wayne> jon: 508 refresh has at least one mode that facilitate limited field of view.
16:30:17 <allanj> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#proximity-of-related-information
16:31:06 <Wayne> allanj: Are we covered. We are doing work on user settings. We are going to do some work on other areas. Can we close this one.
16:31:44 <Wayne> allanj: If we add in images can we close these can we close this.
16:32:38 <allanj> wayne: need image of table with fixed headers.
16:33:44 <allanj> ja: tv guide table with no headers,
16:33:52 <Wayne> allanj: May leave this one open.
16:34:09 <Wayne> rssagent, make minutes
16:34:20 <Wayne> trackbot, close meeting
16:34:20 <trackbot> Sorry, Wayne, I don't understand 'trackbot, close meeting'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
16:34:23 <allanj> wayne: or bus scheule
16:34:46 <Wayne> rssagent, make minutes
16:34:55 <Wayne> trackbot, end meeting
16:34:55 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:34:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been shawn, jeanne, Jim, Erich, JohnR, jon_avila, AWK, Laura
16:35:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:35:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
16:35:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:35:04 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-lvtf-actions.rdf :
16:35:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jon avila to create user need for contrast differences [1]
16:35:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-lvtf-irc#T15-55-24
16:35:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jim to review 3.1 contrast/color user needs [2]
16:35:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-lvtf-irc#T16-00-52
16:35:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Craft user need on obscured perception and operability [3]
16:35:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/02-lvtf-irc#T16-20-42