19:58:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
19:58:11 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/01-aapi-irc
19:58:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:58:13 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
19:58:15 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
19:58:15 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
19:58:16 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
19:58:16 <trackbot> Date: 01 March 2016
19:58:21 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:58:27 <clown> agenda: this
19:58:33 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1569/1585/ISSUE-540 (All) Section on AAPI differences - Jason's latest.
19:58:38 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-2012/ACTION-2013/Action-1667 (Cynthia) UIA mappings for landmark roles, pull request: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272
19:58:44 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1593 (Cynthia) Compare implementations of AAPI managed states and look for gaps.
19:58:50 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1541 (Joanie/Joseph) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal property.
19:58:55 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1668 (Rich/Alex) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2.
19:59:01 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-1013: (Joseph/Joanie/JamesT) Need for AAPI event with aria-errormessage.
19:59:08 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1681 (Joseph) Editorial change clarifying inclusions rules in 5.1.2
19:59:16 <clown> agenda+
19:59:30 <clown> agenda+ Triage: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23 (start: ACTION-1686)
19:59:30 <clown> - Also bugzillas:
19:59:30 <clown> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA
19:59:30 <clown> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
19:59:31 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
19:59:36 <clown> agenda+ be done.
20:00:44 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
20:01:26 <joanie> scribe: Joanmarie_Diggs
20:01:53 <joanie> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
20:02:32 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:02:44 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
20:09:51 <cyns> thank you!
20:11:11 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
20:11:11 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ACTION-1569/1585/ISSUE-540 (All) Section on AAPI differences - Jason's latest." taken up [from clown]
20:11:27 <clown> ACTION-1569?
20:11:27 <trackbot> ACTION-1569 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Create a section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2016-02-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
20:11:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569
20:11:49 <joanie> JS: I incorporated all of Jason's and Cynthia's changes.
20:12:01 <joanie> JS: I pushed them and asked for feedback.
20:12:10 <joanie> CS: I did my action item about changing the example.
20:12:15 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2016Feb/0050.html
20:12:20 <joanie> JS: Jason replied (see above).
20:12:30 <joanie> JS: He wants to change the end of the second paragraph.
20:12:51 <joanie> JS: He wants us to not use "accessible" as a noun.
20:12:59 <joanie> CS: I tend to agree with him.
20:13:12 <joanie> JS: I pointed out that it's used this way throughout the document.
20:13:26 <joanie> CS: You can give him an action item if he wants to change it.
20:13:37 <joanie> JS: Is it especially egregious?
20:14:39 <joanie> CS: Up to you if you want to make the change or ask him to do it.
20:14:57 <joanie> JS: It might be referencing the glossary, which would make it more challenging.
20:15:14 <joanie> CS: You could also make a glossary entry with accessible used as a noun, which might be less work.
20:15:37 <joanie> JS: The next issue Jason mentioned: (Joseph reads text of 1.1)
20:15:50 <joanie> JS: Jason wants to drop the word "static"
20:15:55 <joanie> JS: I thought about it a bit.
20:16:37 <joanie> JS: And I thought it's correct because you need ARIA to get across the correct semantics.
20:16:46 <joanie> JS: So the DOM does not represent the correct semantics.
20:16:54 <joanie> CS: But it says "structure and state".
20:17:11 <joanie> CS: That could mean accessibility structure and state, or DOM structure and state, or....
20:17:18 <joanie> CS: And it's introductory material.
20:17:34 <joanie> JS: Jason raised a similar issue (Joseph reads from email)
20:18:25 <joanie> JS: Jason suggested that the text suggests ATs only use accessibility APIs for interactive content.
20:18:35 <joanie> JS: Which of course is not correct (any longer).
20:18:47 <joanie> JS: I responded to him that I agree and that this text should be updated.
20:19:11 <joanie> JS: He has a recommended rewrite for the UIA section.
20:19:23 <joanie> JS: Cynthia responded.
20:19:27 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2016Feb/0051.html
20:19:44 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2016Feb/0053.html
20:19:50 <joanie> JS: (Reads from Cynthia's reply at above URL)
20:20:02 <joanie> CS: The last thing that was written there is fine.
20:20:07 <joanie> JS: Where's "there"?
20:20:13 <joanie> CS: In his email.
20:20:28 <joanie> CS: The way that he phrased it is better.
20:20:35 <clown> action-1585
20:20:35 <trackbot> action-1585 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of uia. -- due 2016-01-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW
20:20:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1585
20:20:40 <joanie> CS: But with the example I redid, that may not work.
20:21:17 <joanie> CS: The button example he uses in his rewrite is incorrect.
20:21:32 <joanie> JS: So I should use your (Cynthia's) text in the rewrite?
20:21:42 <clown> action-2032
20:21:42 <trackbot> action-2032 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide a new example for the accessibility api explanatory text. -- due 2016-03-01 -- OPEN
20:21:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2032
20:22:10 <joanie> JS: That replaces the example. What else should we change?
20:22:23 <joanie> CS: Can you munge them together and we can look at them next week?
20:22:25 <joanie> JS: Yes.
20:22:50 <joanie> CS: I will be reviewing the complete UIA column next week.
20:23:12 <joanie> CS: I may just do a pull request as I don't think we need to have a discussion about each cell in that table.
20:23:32 <joanie> JS: Since we didn't test UIA last time, we need to test everything this time.
20:25:32 <joanie> (Some discussion about restoring the UIA Express column)
20:26:22 <joanie> JS: We need to talk to Alex Surkov about this.
20:26:44 <joanie> CS: I think it was about the HTML-AAM.
20:27:02 <joanie> JS: We removed it from Core. Jason asked if we should remove it from HTML-AAM?
20:27:21 <joanie> CS: Alex pointed out that some implementations (i.e. Firefox) may still use it.
20:27:28 <joanie> JS: Does this imply anything about testing?
20:27:34 <joanie> CS: It might.
20:28:14 <joanie> CS: And we don't know if we have a testable implementation of UIA Express.
20:28:34 <joanie> CS: Unless Alex wants us to use Firefox to test for UIA Express.
20:29:11 <joanie> JS: We have plan for differences amongst Accessibility APIs:
20:29:23 <joanie> JS: I'll tell Jason to go ahead with the accessible objects.
20:29:29 <joanie> JS: I'll munge the changes.
20:29:31 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:29:31 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-2012/ACTION-2013/Action-1667 (Cynthia) UIA mappings for landmark roles, pull request: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272" taken up [from clown]
20:29:47 <clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/272
20:31:01 <joanie> JS: Your (Cynthia's) github pull request for landmarks: I'm fine with that, but if we make your change here, we need to do it everywhere.
20:31:12 <joanie> CS: I don't think that's the only change I made.
20:31:20 <joanie> JS: No, the rest I'm fine with.
20:32:15 <clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/commit/5b29b85d5d4ebee1b374bef2f887b8b6dd72cac9
20:34:30 <clown> action:  cynthia to change the phrase "Control type/role" to "Control Type" throughout the Core-AAM
20:34:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2037 - Change the phrase "control type/role" to "control type" throughout the core-aam [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2016-03-08].
20:34:48 <clown> action-2037
20:34:48 <trackbot> action-2037 -- Cynthia Shelly to Change the phrase "control type/role" to "control type" throughout the core-aam -- due 2016-03-08 -- OPEN
20:34:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2037
20:35:22 <joanie> CS: Go ahead and merge the current pull request.
20:36:03 <joanie> CS: And give me an action to do the other changes to "control type".
20:36:11 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:36:11 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-1593 (Cynthia) Compare implementations of AAPI managed states and look for gaps." taken up [from clown]
20:36:21 <clown> action-1593
20:36:21 <trackbot> action-1593 -- Cynthia Shelly to Compare implementations of AAPI managed states and look for gaps. -- due 2016-03-04 -- OPEN
20:36:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1593
20:36:24 <joanie> JS: We talked about this briefly last week.
20:36:29 <joanie> CS: I didn't get to this one yet.
20:36:46 <joanie> CS: Let's move it to the 29th.
20:36:58 <joanie> CS: And when are we doing test file creation?
20:37:41 <joanie> agenda?
20:38:09 <joanie> Topic: Test file creation
20:38:29 <joanie> CS: I had an action due today to create a test case.
20:38:32 <joanie> action-1373
20:38:32 <trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements. -- due 2016-03-01 -- OPEN
20:38:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1373
20:38:52 <joanie> CS: I'd like to align this with when the other test case writing takes place.
20:39:06 <joanie> CS: Testing starts after last call?
20:39:15 <joanie> JD: When is last call?
20:40:07 <joanie> JS: I think the plan is, because we've been doing heartbeats regularly now, we choose the last heartbeat for last call.
20:40:19 <joanie> CS: There's no way all the test cases will be written by March 11th.
20:40:42 <joanie> JS: I'll add a note that the due date for this action should coincide with test case creation.
20:46:40 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:46:40 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1541 (Joanie/Joseph) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal property." taken up [from clown]
20:46:48 <clown> action-1541
20:46:48 <trackbot> action-1541 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Investigate and propose mappings for aria-modal property for axapi. -- due 2016-02-08 -- OPEN
20:46:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1541
20:47:07 <clown> https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/AppKit/Reference/NSAccessibility_Protocol_Reference/index.html#//apple_ref/occ/intfp/NSAccessibility/accessibilityModal
20:47:10 <joanie> JS: I did a little research. And found the above in the Apple documentation.
20:47:27 <joanie> JS: There is a accessibility-modal property of a window.
20:48:05 <clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138566#c23
20:48:33 <clown> @property(getter=isAccessibilityModal) BOOL accessibilityModal
20:48:49 <joanie> JS: The method is isAccessibilityModal()
20:48:56 <clown> A Boolean value that determines whether the window is modal.
20:49:01 <joanie> JS: The documentation states the above.
20:49:28 <joanie> JS: That tells the AT programmer what to look for, but not what to look for in the accessibility inspector.
20:49:37 <clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138566#c23
20:49:40 <joanie> JS: So I commented on the bug associated with the implementation.
20:49:54 <joanie> JS: I asked them what to put in the accessibility mappings.
20:50:08 <joanie> JS: I haven't gotten a reply.
20:52:53 <joanie> JD: If memory serves me, they don't expose the property; the act upon it being present.
20:53:22 <joanie> JD: For instance, if an aria-modal dialog became active, the page content underneath would be treated as if aria-hidden were true.
20:53:28 <joanie> JD: I think. I am not Apple.
20:53:34 <joanie> JS: So how do we test it?
20:54:29 <joanie> JD: Hypothetically, if you had a page with text and an OK button that triggered the appearance of an aria-modal dialog, then you would activate the button and then look in the accessibility tree to verify that text and that button were not in the accessibility tree.
20:54:55 <joanie> JD: And you would probably also want to verify that upon dismissing the aria-modal dialog, the original content was re-added back to the accessibility tree.
20:58:33 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:58:33 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-1668 (Rich/Alex) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2." taken up [from clown]
20:58:42 <joanie> JS: Rich and Alex are not here.
20:59:10 <joanie> JS: There is an email thread.
20:59:22 <joanie> JS: We'll put it off to next week since Rich is not here.
21:03:09 <clown> object:state-changed:invalid_entry
21:03:29 <joanie> 
21:03:29 <joanie> ATK_STATE_INVALID_ENTRY
21:03:30 <joanie> Indicates that the object has encountered an error condition due to failure of input validation. For instance, a form control may acquire this state in response to invalid or malformed user input.
21:03:36 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_events_state-change
21:03:49 <joanie> ATK_STATE_INVALID
21:03:50 <joanie> Indicates an invalid state - probably an error condition.
21:08:27 <joanie> regrets+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Bryan_Garaventa
21:08:58 <clown> issue-1013
21:08:58 <trackbot> issue-1013 -- Is there a need for an aapi event for aria-errormessage -- open
21:08:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1013
21:09:02 <joanie> JS: I raised the above issue.
21:10:58 <joanie> Zakim, part
21:10:58 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, Cynthia_Shelly, Joseph_Scheuhammer
21:10:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
21:11:08 <joanie> scribeOptions: -final
21:11:12 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop