18:02:34 RRSAgent has joined #svg-a11y 18:02:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-svg-a11y-irc 18:03:21 agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-a11y/2016Feb/0041.html 18:03:32 chair: fesch 18:03:41 regrets: Jason 18:04:41 no 18:04:46 present+ AmeliaBR 18:05:02 present+ MarkSadecki 18:05:10 great 18:05:24 s/great/ 18:05:35 s/no/ 18:06:11 regrets for today, I'm at a f2f meeting 18:08:36 present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger 18:08:49 scribe: Rich 18:09:12 Topic: Open Actions 18:09:19 RRSAgent, make log public 18:09:30 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/ 18:10:01 Amelia: My open actions tie into SVG-AAM based on feedback. I have started it but I am not yet ready to share it. 18:10:30 Amelia: Regarding clearer documentation in SVG2 it will make it easier to address issues with focus management in SVG2 18:11:14 Rich: there are issues with HTMl vs. SVG2 where both don’t match 18:11:39 Amelia: I agree for focus management. They links and definitions are inconsistent and we can’t fix the HTML side 18:12:08 Amelia: I am going to make sure we have clear directions on the SVG side to ensure Focus navigation is consistent. 18:12:35 Amelia: what elements can be accessible with tabindex. What element are focusable, etc. 18:12:45 Amelia: I agree with your issue filed. 18:13:20 Topic: Action 2003 18:13:43 action-2003 18:13:43 action-2003 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Investigate how role=none interacts with other aria- attributes, in other aria specs. -- due 2016-02-16 -- OPEN 18:13:43 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2003 18:13:44 Action-2003? 18:13:44 Action-2003 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Investigate how role=none interacts with other aria- attributes, in other aria specs. -- due 2016-02-16 -- OPEN 18:13:44 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2003 18:14:50 Amelia: if something has role=“none” and they have an aria-label that they not put in the a11y tree. Rich to check with ARIA 1.1 18:16:28 Topic: Action 2010 18:16:34 Action-2010? 18:16:34 Action-2010 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Update svg-aam and svg 2 to include the new roles from the aria graphics module -- due 2016-02-16 -- OPEN 18:16:34 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2010 18:17:39 action-1004 18:17:39 Sorry, but action-1004 does not exist. 18:17:48 issue-1004 18:17:48 issue-1004 -- The Use element should default to graphics-symbol and also graphics symbol should subclass graphic -- open 18:17:48 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/issues/1004 18:18:39 RESOLUTION: Close Action 2010 and issue 1004 18:18:43 completed 18:18:53 Topic: Action 2011 18:18:55 action-2011 18:18:55 action-2011 -- Fred Esch to Review svg 2 section on multi-lingual title/desc & identify any under-specified conditions or edge cases -- due 2016-02-16 -- OPEN 18:18:55 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2011 18:19:35 Fred: One of the things taht we found was an empty title 18:20:02 Fred: with an empty tooltip or a white spaced tooltip none show a tooltip 18:20:38 Amelia: Rich and I udpated them on the call and there is nothing in the spec. about it. They are deferring to us in accessibility matters 18:20:56 Fred: We would put it in the accessibility tree if they showed a tooltip 18:22:18 Rich: I spoke with the core mapping team and they agreed that if they put in an empty title and then we do nothing special in the name computation. 18:22:33 Fred: what about whether we keep the element in the tree? 18:22:39 Rich: we keep it as we have it 18:22:52 Amelia: we put these issues in authoring tools to warn the author 18:23:40 RESOLUTION: If an empty title or a title with all whitespace is used then the element is put in the accessibility tree for elements that are considered renderable. 18:25:43 Amelia: we assume the attribute exists aria-label=“” then it is consistent. However, aria-labelledby must point to a a valid id. 18:26:11 Amelia: the element must be treated the same way 18:26:47 Amelia: we might want to up this to a normative rule for authors. 18:28:07 Action: Amelia: modify the SVG2 spec. to require authors when useing or <desc> to not leave them empty or with only white space. An author MUST 18:28:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2015 - Modify the svg2 spec. to require authors when useing <title> or <desc> to not leave them empty or with only white space. an author must [on Amelia Bellamy-Royds - due 2016-03-01]. 18:28:44 <Rich> RESOLUTION: <desc> must follow the same rules for <title> regarding empty or whitespace only strings 18:29:11 <Rich> Topic: Action 2012 18:29:21 <MarkS> action-2012 18:29:21 <trackbot> action-2012 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Change mesh in aam to map to image -- due 2016-02-23 -- OPEN 18:29:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2012 18:30:02 <Rich> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/struct.html#implicit-aria-semantics 18:31:08 <Rich> Rich: for mesh: none role provided no associated ‘title’ element, ‘desc’ element, ‘aria-label’ attribute, ‘aria-labelledby’ attribute, ‘aria-describedby’ attribute; or ‘tabindex’ attribute; otherwise, img role 18:32:17 <Rich> RESOLUTION: close Action 2012 18:32:28 <Rich> close action-2012 18:32:28 <trackbot> Closed action-2012. 18:32:30 <AmeliaBR> Relevant text from SVG 2 "Unlike other paint servers, a mesh defined outside of a ‘defs’ section is rendered. In this the case, the mesh has a bounding box determined by its maximum extent, taking into account all of its patches." 18:32:48 <Rich> Topic: Action 2013 18:32:50 <fesch> action-2013 18:32:50 <trackbot> action-2013 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Update allowed roles in svg-aam & svg 2 to include new graphics module roles -- due 2016-02-23 -- OPEN 18:32:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2013 18:33:22 <fesch> close action-2013 18:33:22 <trackbot> Closed action-2013. 18:33:26 <Rich> RESOLUTION: Close Action 2013 as completed 18:33:52 <Rich> Topic: Action 2009 18:34:04 <MarkS> action-2009 18:34:04 <trackbot> action-2009 -- Fred Esch to Create testable statements with multiple title/desc elements -- due 2016-02-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW 18:34:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/actions/2009 18:34:54 <Rich> Topic: Meeting Time 18:34:56 <fesch> http://doodle.com/poll/zxmyzm728qr4chatnnhunhch/admin#table 18:36:54 <Rich> RESOLUTION: Move meeting times to 2PM EST 18:37:49 <Rich> Topic: Text with multiple elements 18:38:15 <Rich> Topic: Tests with multiple elements 18:38:29 <fesch> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility/Testing/Test_Assertions 18:38:45 <Rich> Fred: There are a few test assertions that are purposeful 18:39:07 <Rich> Fred: If you look where teh test element is the second element 18:39:18 <fesch> test element is second element 18:39:49 <Rich> Fred: that is one 18:40:07 <Rich> Fred: how many tests do we need to do before we know it is OK? 18:41:04 <Rich> Amelia: We can’t test everything but we have to test the main branches of a decision tree to make sure we have a decision for that 18:41:20 <fesch> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility/Testing/Test_Assertions/Language 18:41:24 <Rich> Fred: on the other pages we have the language test 18:41:34 <Rich> Fred: they have lots of things like multiple titles 18:41:53 <Rich> fred: They have groups around multiple things that are being tested to have a non-english example 18:42:16 <Rich> Fred: are we ok with that? If we want more can we just put that in? 18:42:40 <Rich> Amelia: Where specific edge case are needed we do that. 18:42:54 <Rich> Amelia: I need to read through what you have 18:43:27 <Rich> Fred: Charles said when you annotate things with an accessible name and it just stops 18:44:24 <Rich> Amelia: We need to make sure we have 3 elements in the spec. then we do that. 18:45:57 <AmeliaBR> s/3 elements in the spec/multiple elements in the test/ 18:46:11 <Rich> Rich: we could have a 2 page test with all the the element to test if in or outside the tree 18:46:53 <Rich> Fred: we need a unique id for the test in the page. so, each one has to be on separate pages 18:47:18 <Rich> Topic: SVG Spec. Ambiguous issues 18:47:42 <Rich> Amelia: we have discussed all of these but we do not have resolutions for all of these 18:48:04 <Rich> Amelia: We briefed the SVG2 working group and they left it up to us to deal with a11y issues 18:48:55 <Rich> Topic: Graphics-AAM 18:49:43 <Rich> Amelia: I gave it a quick overview but I am not an expert. 18:50:41 <Rich> Rich: I gave the graphics spec. to James Craig at Apple and Joanie Diggs at Igalia and they will come back with Mac and Linux mappings 18:51:05 <Rich> Topic: Inline in SVG and W3C documents 18:52:10 <Rich> Fred: If you have an SVG document and the first element is <g> and it has an aria-label of “bob” it just says bob. 18:53:16 <Rich> Rich: where was that tested? 18:53:33 <Rich> Amelia: we shoudl be giving advice for maximum reasonable accessibility 18:54:08 <Rich> s/shouldl/should/ 18:56:13 <Rich> Fred: I have a pearl script that has an SVG document and an HTML file that makes the SVG document in line 18:56:26 <AmeliaBR> s/pearl/perl/ 18:57:46 <Rich> Rich: every platform has a different set of APIs 18:58:56 <Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases?testsuite_id=4 18:59:10 <Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=4&testcase_id=76 19:04:14 <Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/edit?testsuite_id=1&testcase_id=80 19:09:35 <Rich> chair: Fred 19:09:42 <Rich> RRSAgent, make minutes 19:09:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/23-svg-a11y-minutes.html Rich 19:28:15 <fesch> fesch has left #svg-a11y 19:34:43 <Rich> Rich has joined #svg-a11y 19:49:43 <Rich> Rich has joined #svg-a11y