13:49:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
13:49:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-forms-irc
13:49:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:49:36 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
13:49:36 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:49:37 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
13:49:37 <trackbot> Date: 17 February 2016
13:50:17 <Steven_> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Feb/0028
13:50:25 <Steven_> Steven_ has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Feb/0028
13:50:35 <Steven_> Regrets: Mark(possibly)
13:50:39 <Steven_> Chair: Steven
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14:02:33 <Steven> Present: Steven, Alain, Philip, Erik
14:04:40 <Steven> Topic: XML Prague and ixml
14:04:40 <Steven> http://www.cwi.nl/~steven/Talks/2016/02-12-prague/
14:06:57 <Steven> STeven: I think ixml may turn out to be useful for XForms. There were two people who had implementations at Prague.
14:07:02 <Steven> s/ST/St/
14:07:28 <Steven> (Serach for Invisible XML).
14:07:37 <Steven> s/Sera/Sear/
14:08:22 <Steven> Steven: There was also a new Saxon
14:08:27 <Steven> Alain: XSLT in Javascript
14:09:00 <Steven> Topic: Prefixes: xs vs. xsd
14:09:00 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Feb/0021.html
14:09:28 <Steven> Steven: I think this is fine
14:09:44 <Steven> ACTION: Erik to change all xsd: to xs:
14:09:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2050 - Change all xsd: to xs: [on Erik Bruchez - due 2016-02-24].
14:10:05 <Steven> Topic: Whitespace processing during recalculate
14:10:05 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Feb/0016.html
14:11:17 <Steven> Steven: What are we going to do about this?
14:11:27 <Steven> Erik: The incremental issue is interesting
14:12:04 <Steven> Steven: Yes, it could mean you type a space, and the system immediately removes it
14:13:07 <Steven> Erik: I agree that it would be bad user experience if the field started shifting around during tying; maybe doing this after moving out of the focus is better
14:14:20 <Steven> Erik: You mentioned spaces in credit card numbers, and I think it is related.
14:14:30 <Steven> ... I think forms should do more for you not less.
14:17:43 <Steven> Steven: Alain suggested using datatypes to declare this
14:17:52 <Steven> Erik: I'm not sure yet what I think of this.
14:18:11 <Steven> ... certainly the expectation of a 'required' field is that it isn't just spaces.
14:18:32 <Steven> ... that really ought to be the default
14:20:10 <Steven> Alain: If it's a datatype, it is always valdated according to its type, and not whether it is required or not.
14:20:29 <Steven> ... maybe a data type that says spaces only is invalid. But I'm not sure it is an easy problem.
14:22:49 <Steven> ... it is not really about validating, but more like reformatting data according to its type
14:26:08 <Steven> Erik: The controls could do the work, rather than having it at the model level
14:26:22 <Steven> ... I am not suggesting we adopt the solutions, but we should look at it.
14:26:42 <Steven> ... HTML Forms are terrible in this respect as well.
14:26:53 <Steven> ... It would be good to have a solution though.
14:27:00 <Steven> Steven: http://books.xmlschemata.org/relaxng/ch19-77319.html
14:27:13 <Steven> ... xsd:token
14:27:30 <Steven> ... that does white space collapsing
14:27:37 <Steven> ... may be a bit more than we want
14:28:17 <Steven> Erik: Differing XML specs do different things.
14:28:45 <Steven> ... Java soes different things too
14:28:51 <Steven> s/soes/does/
14:30:18 <Steven> Steven: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/category/index.htm
14:31:16 <Steven> ... spaces: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/category/Zs/list.htm
14:32:04 <Steven> Steven: What should we do with this issue?
14:32:11 <Steven> Alain: Ask for user feedback
14:32:21 <Steven> ... and a type
14:32:47 <Steven> Erik: I could see how the type would validate
14:34:10 <Steven> Steven: So if the string only consisted of spaces, it wouldn't validate?
14:34:17 <Steven> Alain: Yes.
14:34:42 <Steven> ACTION: Alain to experiment with a type for non-space string, and report back
14:34:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2051 - Experiment with a type for non-space string, and report back [on Alain Couthures - due 2016-02-24].
14:35:07 <Steven> Topic: xforms-link-exception and scripts
14:35:07 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Feb/0024.html
14:35:30 <Steven> Steven: Is this the only remaining exception?
14:35:38 <Steven> Erik: This and computer-exception
14:35:45 <Steven> s/computer/compute
14:40:52 <Steven> Steven: This is two issues 1) should we have the link-exception, and 2) should we have @src on <action>
14:41:07 <Steven> ... I have no strong feelings about @src on <action>
14:41:21 <Steven> Erik: If that is a shared sentiment, then let's just remove it.
14:42:47 <Steven> Steven: Any objections?
14:42:50 <Steven> [None]
14:43:00 <Steven> ACTION: Erik to remove @src from <action>
14:43:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2052 - Remove @src from <action> [on Erik Bruchez - due 2016-02-24].
14:43:40 <Steven> Steven: Do we want to address the exception issue?
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14:43:53 <Steven> Erik: I think we can do something about it
14:44:59 <Steven> ... we load the empty instance as it were
14:45:44 <Steven> Steven: ANd then generate an event rather than an exception?
14:45:48 <Steven> Erik: Yes
14:45:56 <Steven> s/AN/An/
14:47:33 <Steven> Erik: We need to work out what is the data model if there is no instance
14:47:59 <Steven> Steven: I will give you an action
14:48:15 <Steven> ACTION: Erik to work out how to replace link-exception
14:48:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2053 - Work out how to replace link-exception [on Erik Bruchez - due 2016-02-24].
14:49:10 <Steven> Topic: AOB
14:49:33 <Steven> [None]
14:49:40 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
14:49:45 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:49:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:17:30 <liam_> thanks!
15:17:40 <liam_> well, leave meeting and choose "End Meeting"
15:18:02 <liam_> if you don't get the End Meeting option I'll send you the alternate link for meeting.
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