16:53:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
16:53:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-irc
16:53:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:53:12 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #apa
16:53:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
16:53:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
16:53:15 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
16:53:15 <trackbot> Date: 17 February 2016
16:53:30 <janina> agenda?
16:53:35 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
16:53:35 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8
16:53:35 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
16:53:35 <janina> agenda+ CSS Transitions A11y Statement https://drafts.csswg.org/css-transitions/#accessibility
16:53:38 <janina> agenda+ Dpub Media Querry Impass [See Long Text Mechanism Resolution below]
16:53:41 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
16:53:43 <janina> agenda+ next and future meetings http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_273
16:53:46 <janina> agenda+ be done
16:56:25 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #APA
16:56:56 <janina>  OK, Tzviya! Thanks.
16:57:19 <janina> present+ janina
16:58:31 <janina> zakim, next item
16:58:31 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
17:01:32 <tzviya> present+ Tzviya_Siegman
17:02:06 <fesch> fesch has joined #apa
17:02:08 <MichielBijl> present+ MichielBijl
17:03:10 <janina> Thanks, Shane!
17:03:22 <fesch> present+ fesch
17:04:17 <MichaelC> present+ MichaelC
17:04:38 <fesch> scribe: fesch
17:05:30 <MichaelC> agenda?
17:05:53 <MichaelC> agenda order 1, 2, 4, 5, 3
17:05:57 <MichaelC> agenda?
17:06:14 <cyns> cyns has joined #apa
17:07:05 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
17:07:19 <fesch> chair: Janina
17:07:19 <MichaelC> present+ Cynthia
17:07:31 <fesch> zakim, item 1
17:07:31 <Zakim> I don't understand 'item 1', fesch
17:07:36 <ShaneM> present+ ShaneM
17:07:54 <fesch> zakim, next item
17:07:54 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Actions Review (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8" taken up [from janina]
17:08:46 <fesch> js: brainstorming on media query on dPub and accessibility, getting pushback
17:08:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #apa
17:09:43 <fesch> js: no progress on mine :{
17:09:58 <fesch> action-2003
17:09:58 <trackbot> action-2003 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Review presentation api https://www.w3.org/tr/presentation-api/ -- due 2016-02-17 -- OPEN
17:09:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2003
17:10:11 <MichaelC> action-2003 due 1 week
17:10:11 <trackbot> Set action-2003 Review presentation api https://www.w3.org/tr/presentation-api/ due date to 2016-02-24.
17:10:43 <fesch> action-1750
17:10:43 <trackbot> action-1750 -- Cynthia Shelly to Review ui events -- due 2016-02-06 -- OPEN
17:10:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/1750
17:10:54 <MichaelC> action-1750 due 1 week
17:10:54 <trackbot> Set action-1750 Review ui events due date to 2016-02-24.
17:11:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:11:17 <fesch> action-1630
17:11:17 <trackbot> action-1630 -- Shane McCarron to Investigate possibilities of irc bot integration with bugzilla and github -- due 2015-05-20 -- OPEN
17:11:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/1630
17:11:22 <MichielBijl> regrets+ LéonieWatson
17:11:41 <fesch> zakim, next item
17:11:41 <Zakim> agendum 4. "CSS Transitions A11y Statement https://drafts.csswg.org/css-transitions/#accessibility" taken up [from janina]
17:11:53 <MichaelC> present+ Shane
17:12:12 <fesch> js: Shane will you be ready for HTML a11y call?
17:12:27 <fesch> sm: yes will send out link...
17:14:18 <fesch> js: what is our response to the section in CSS transitions?
17:14:36 <fesch> rs: this has no user agent requirement...
17:14:43 <fesch> jf: that won't work
17:15:06 <fesch> js: do we want something with MUST rather than SHOULD?
17:15:36 <cyns> +1 to michael
17:15:49 <fesch> mc: need clearer suggestions, need a better description of how that might be done, once that is written then we can thing about MUSTS
17:16:08 <fesch> ts: without a sample it is meaningless
17:16:29 <fesch> mc: might need an example so we can see how that it is done
17:17:01 <fesch> js: I can send a response where we want to see something more specific, it is too much hand waving
17:17:32 <fesch> mc: second paragraph is good, user style sheets have been killed off
17:17:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
17:17:50 <janina> q?
17:18:01 <janina> ack r
17:18:09 <fesch> mc: user style sheets have been removed from some user agents so would need an extension
17:18:51 <fesch> rs: if they don't want to do that, they could add a media query to be able to stop it..
17:19:03 <fesch> cs: any of those would meet WCAG
17:19:37 <fesch> mc: I don't mind media queries, but that requires authors to do something, I'd prefer a global user agent setting
17:20:07 <janina> q?
17:20:10 <fesch> rs: can do it via the user agent or have an author do it (with media query) which will meet WCAG
17:20:26 <fesch> cs: extensions could also work
17:20:45 <tzviya> q+ to discuss larger issue of user preferences
17:20:58 <janina> ack t
17:20:58 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to discuss larger issue of user preferences
17:21:02 <fesch> mc: if they user agent can do it, the xxx working group is leaning that way, so providing a user agent feature is better
17:21:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
17:21:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
17:22:18 <fesch> ts: wrt media queries, agnostic method might be better, media queries might be scope creep, not sure we have a direction to do this
17:22:25 <MichaelC> q+ to say IndieUI Context, and short-term and long-term plan
17:22:35 <janina> ack r
17:22:42 <fesch> js: we may be split across groups, it is up to APA to coordinate
17:23:19 <cyns> q+ to say that we consider suggesting to CSS transitions that they add examples of how to acheive that, including the ones we've suggested: browser, media queries, extensions or site
17:23:37 <MichaelC> q+ to say media queries vs structured preferences
17:23:43 <fesch> rs: if the css wg doesn't want to make these requirements then we need a way to do this, media queries or exposed via preferences will let us do this
17:24:02 <MichaelC> ack me
17:24:02 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say IndieUI Context, and short-term and long-term plan and to say media queries vs structured preferences
17:24:08 <janina> ack m
17:24:09 <fesch> rs: need to discuss with cSS wg
17:25:24 <fesch> mc: ARIA working group was supposed to take up Indie UI stuff, we thought some could be done with media queries - some not a good fit - worried about media queries be the answer to everything
17:26:00 <fesch> mc: we need to give them feedback on this spec - but need to have a long term plan and our feedback needs to work with long term plan
17:26:14 <janina> ack c
17:26:14 <Zakim> cyns, you wanted to say that we consider suggesting to CSS transitions that they add examples of how to acheive that, including the ones we've suggested: browser, media queries,
17:26:18 <Zakim> ... extensions or site
17:26:19 <fesch> js: we need to think about the long term, not ask to much from this spec
17:26:51 <fesch> cs: ask to make section less hand wavy, plus a reference to WCAG, so there is something specific
17:27:25 <fesch> mc: spec authors may object to ref to WCAG because all specs must meet WCAG
17:27:45 <janina> q?
17:27:53 <fesch> cs: was thinking about deep links.... if it gets pushback not that important
17:28:34 <fesch> js: should I write a general note that the section is not specific, may need actions to generate examples
17:28:58 <fesch> mc: should tell them this would be better with examples, can we have to a date to provide them
17:29:22 <fesch> cs: not sure they need to be code examples...
17:29:51 <fesch> js: OK, lets see how they direct us...
17:30:08 <fesch> js: I like the way they approached us...
17:30:41 <fesch> js: pleased to hear an editor include an accessibility section
17:31:03 <fesch> action Janina to respond
17:31:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2011 - Respond [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-02-24].
17:31:30 <fesch> zakim, next item
17:31:30 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Dpub Media Querry Impass" taken up [from See Long Text Mechanism Resolution below]
17:31:40 <MichaelC> action-2011 = Janina to draft examples of how the hand-wavey stuff in CSS Transitions accessibility statement could be solidified
17:32:31 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
17:32:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html MichaelC
17:32:48 <fesch> js: longdesc, describedat ... trying to move to detailed summary, use a textual description, remaining requirement is when the user wants to be advised about their existence
17:33:06 <fesch> js: thought we could do it with media queries
17:33:45 <fesch> js: discussion wondered off into personalization... follow on from Indie UI... short term need in DPub.
17:34:23 <fesch> js: the editor of Media Queries doesn't think the CSS WG would accept it, what direction do we want to go?
17:35:16 <janina> q?
17:35:30 <fesch> ts: requirements DPub put together since media queries is not an option, we have two tags -                      then we inform the user that there is an extended descirption
17:35:53 <fesch> ts: perhaps all we can do is provide the information to AT
17:36:12 <fesch> js: the down side is we miss users not using AT
17:36:56 <fesch> ts:: we may be able to support it, but support will be limited
17:37:08 <fesch> ts: what does it do that describedat doesn't do?
17:37:18 <fesch> js:  nothing, just harder to use
17:37:28 <fesch> ts: not sure what we are accomplishing
17:37:50 <fesch> js: just avoids an almost certain objection on describedat
17:38:09 <fesch> ts: adding aria-details and aria-linktype
17:38:24 <fesch> ts: seems like a convoluted way to accomplish aria-describedat
17:38:24 <joanie> q+ to say linktype is a seperate thing
17:38:42 <fesch> ts: only provides a link out
17:38:58 <fesch> rs: details can be accessible to everybody
17:39:16 <fesch> js: aria is only being exposed to AT
17:39:29 <fesch> cs: does anyone implement summary or details?
17:39:38 <tzviya> http://caniuse.com/#search=summary
17:39:41 <fesch> cs: not in the plan for the next version
17:39:45 <joanie> q-
17:39:58 <fesch> rs: chrome and safari are almost done
17:40:07 <fesch> rs: a lot of activity on that
17:40:32 <fesch> cs: in the plan, but not the next version
17:41:07 <fesch> js: don't want to go down a path that is uncomfortable for edge
17:41:44 <fesch> js: we don't have a way to expose it to non AT users...
17:41:52 <fesch> mc: in what
17:41:59 <fesch> js: summary details
17:42:01 <cyns> https://dev.windows.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/status/detailssummary?filter=f3f0000bf&search=detail
17:42:49 <cyns> and, in general, for Edge feature work https://dev.windows.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/status/ (you'll like the 2 at the top)
17:42:55 <fesch> mc: figure with details...
17:43:26 <fesch> mc: was marked in yes in matrix.... oh not available by non AT users
17:43:47 <fesch> mc: adding a row for that, don't have info about other columns....
17:43:56 <fesch> js: working out columns...
17:44:29 <fesch> mc: a lot of things fail the usable by non AT users...
17:44:45 <fesch> rs: problem is whether you see it or not.
17:44:57 <fesch> cs: summary details would be easy to do with polyfill
17:45:17 <fesch> cs: seems like a ebook reader should be able to us it anyway
17:45:33 <fesch> rs: are they doing polyfill in a book?
17:45:43 <fesch> cs: do it in the ereader
17:46:02 <fesch> cs: will probably do it eventually
17:46:32 <fesch> ts: want it usable for AT, but not a big ugly thing that gets in the way
17:46:48 <fesch> cs: seems easy to do in a ereader via a polyfill
17:47:03 <fesch> rs: we heard that last fall
17:47:21 <fesch> cs: in the long term it will probably be fine
17:47:44 <fesch> ts: what do we put in the doc that will be finalized in Sep - Oct
17:48:05 <fesch> rs: what are ereaders using as core browsers on windows
17:48:21 <fesch> ts: radium is webkit based
17:48:34 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/radium/Readium/
17:48:35 <fesch> rs: that is already there
17:49:13 <fesch> rs: webkit based browsers on windows are not the best for accessibility
17:49:28 <fesch> rs: better of using something based on chrome...
17:49:36 <janina> q?
17:49:37 <fesch> rs: much better...
17:49:41 <tzviya> s/webkit/chromw
17:49:49 <fesch> ts: yes chrome
17:50:38 <fesch> ts: we are going down a very specific path - talking about ebook readers... what about from the ARIA perspective?
17:51:07 <fesch> rs: I have corrected that, the spec is in good shape.... not heard negative comments
17:51:57 <fesch> rs: did anyone ask CSS directly?
17:52:41 <fesch> js: yes the editor for media queries said it would be creep and not popular in the CSS WG, not the direction they are moving
17:53:27 <fesch> js: also trying to bring in non AT users in the DPUB stuff...
17:53:50 <fesch> ts: do we need a DPub meeting on this?
17:54:15 <fesch> zakim, next item
17:54:15 <Zakim> agendum 3. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html" taken up [from janina]
17:54:44 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/CSP3/ Content Security Policy Level 3
17:54:53 <MichaelC> action: Janina to review CSP 3 https://www.w3.org/TR/CSP3/
17:54:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2012 - Review csp 3 https://www.w3.org/tr/csp3/ [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-02-24].
17:55:13 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/webrtc/ WebRTC 1.0: Real-time Communication Between Browsers
17:55:21 <MichaelC> action: Janina to review WebRTC 1.0 https://www.w3.org/TR/webrtc/
17:55:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2013 - Review webrtc 1.0 https://www.w3.org/tr/webrtc/ [on Janina Sajka - due 2016-02-24].
17:55:45 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-duv/ Data on the Web Best Practices: Dataset Usage Vocabulary
17:56:12 <fesch> mc: doesn't need a review
17:56:39 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/shacl/ Shapes Constraint Language (SHACL)
17:56:48 <MichaelC> (Fred reviewed, nothing of interest)
17:57:02 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/exi-for-json/ Efficient XML Interchange (EXI) for JSON
17:57:38 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ Micropub
17:58:27 <MichaelC> action: fesch to review Micropub https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/
17:58:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2014 - Review micropub https://www.w3.org/tr/micropub/ [on Fred Esch - due 2016-02-24].
17:58:50 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/wake-lock/ Wake Lock API
17:59:22 <cyns> cyns has joined #apa
17:59:58 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/navigation-timing-2/ Navigation Timing Level 2
18:01:53 <fesch> rrsagent, make minutes
18:01:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-apa-minutes.html fesch
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