16:16:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #genivi
16:16:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/16-genivi-irc
16:26:00 <philrob> philrob has joined #genivi
16:26:22 <kaz> Meeting: GENIVI-W3C coordination
16:29:19 <philippe_c> philippe_c has joined #genivi
16:29:31 <klausbirken> klausbirken has joined #genivi
16:29:57 <klausbirken> hi all!
16:30:42 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2016/02/02-genivi.html Previous minutes
16:31:03 <kaz> present: Kaz_Ashimura, Philippe_Robin, Philippe_Colliot
16:32:23 <philrob> klaus: can you talk ?
16:33:11 <klausbirken> I could talk, but cannot join the audio call
16:34:11 <kaz> present+ Klaus_Birken, Gunnar_Andersson
16:34:21 <klausbirken> now I've joined the webex session, but webex call-in gives me a "system error" and some number
16:34:43 <kaz> present+ Paul_Boyes
16:34:58 <klausbirken> Can I also use "Call Using Computer" in webex?
16:37:21 <kaz> philippR: agenda: LBS, speech use cases, browser APIs, security
16:37:30 <kaz> s/philippR/philippeR/
16:37:40 <kaz> ... anything else, Paul?
16:37:47 <kaz> paul: have updated the wiki
16:38:02 <kaz> philippeR: last call's minutes
16:38:10 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2016/02/02-genivi.html Previous minutes
16:39:12 <kaz> philippeC: joint call last December
16:39:23 <kaz> ... API defined in HTML5
16:39:37 <kaz> ... 90% work is done
16:39:49 <kaz> ... API available using Franca IDL
16:40:06 <kaz> ... generated by Franca generator
16:40:27 <kaz> ... common API version 3.1.5
16:41:06 <kaz> ... moved all the enumeration into 32
16:41:21 <kaz> ... checked if it's ok by dated poc
16:41:36 <kaz> ... also into the branch for Franca migration
16:41:58 <kaz> ... the goal is generating the navigation API using Franca
16:42:29 <kaz> philippeR: some technology for translation?
16:42:50 <kaz> philippeC: W3C's official description is WebIDL
16:43:08 <kaz> ... but Ted explained it's not necessary to use WebIDL
16:43:36 <kaz> ... not 100% sure about description for Web
16:43:59 <kaz> klaus: generate RESTful I/F based on Franca?
16:44:23 <kaz> philippeC: make sense to start with Franca IDL during the joint discussion in Soeul
16:44:30 <kaz> s/Soeul/Seoul/
16:44:47 <kaz> ... up to Ted and the W3C guys
16:45:10 <kaz> ... thought the official language for API definition was WebIDL
16:45:15 <kaz> ... but that is not the case
16:45:32 <philrob> kaz: is it what we are talking about: http://raml.org/
16:46:11 <kaz> klaus: there was some transformation mechanism from Franca
16:46:21 <kaz> ... but not sure about the latest status
16:46:34 <kaz> ... we're able to use Franca IDL
16:46:42 <kaz> ... talking about the technical side
16:46:52 <kaz> ... not about who could actually do yet
16:47:15 <kaz> philippeR: during the last call, setting up some demo was discussed
16:47:46 <kaz> ... the question is do we have any idea about the timeline?
16:48:06 <kaz> ... consolidating ideas on Franca-WebIDL transform
16:48:37 <kaz> ... we have already some demo
16:49:45 <kaz> philippeC: would see to replace the HMI with HTML5
16:49:59 <kaz> klaus: regarding the option to generate the code
16:50:11 <kaz> ... the generator is a piece of running reference code
16:50:23 <kaz> ... HTML UI + C++ code
16:51:27 <kaz> ... this work would be usable
16:51:47 <kaz> ... having Franca-WebIDL converter would be useful
16:52:01 <kaz> ... the first step should be architecture decision on which way to take
16:53:32 <kaz> paul: no preference myself
16:53:50 <kaz> kaz: if we want to reuse Franca resources, would be good to have the converter
16:53:59 <kaz> ... but maybe we could use the RAML mechanism
16:54:07 <kaz> ... or even directly write HTML5 codes
16:54:25 <kaz> philippeC: tried M-script(?)
16:54:33 <kaz> ... a tool binding WebIDL
16:54:44 <kaz> ... C++ code and JavaScript
16:54:59 <kaz> klaus: also JavaScript APIs provided by the HTML5 side?
16:55:12 <kaz> philippeC: you can use JavaScript codes as well
16:55:47 <philrob> kaz: https://kripken.github.io/emscripten-site/
16:56:08 <kaz> s/M-script(?)/emscripten/
16:56:22 <kaz> klaus: communication could be automated
16:56:23 <philrob> correct
16:56:47 <kaz> paul: we're trying some binding between Franca and WebIDL
16:57:38 <kaz> kaz: yeah, but usual Web developers just generate JS codes directly
16:58:03 <kaz> paul: you can support other bindings
16:58:21 <kaz> ... I myself have not used WebIDL-JS binding, though
16:58:36 <kaz> ... you can get other implementations
16:58:59 <kaz> kaz: sounds like the model-base UI approach
16:59:52 <kaz> ... these days people directly JavaScript, though
17:00:09 <kaz> klaus: HTML UI for embedded systems
17:00:22 <kaz> ... use built-in C++ codes
17:00:29 <kaz> ... so different situation
17:00:50 <kaz> ... we have to have the bridge between the C++ side and the JS side
17:01:21 <kaz> ... communication with C++ code on the background
17:01:26 <kaz> ... a set of possible solutions
17:01:32 <kaz> ... we have to choose one
17:01:56 <kaz> ... actually, there was a presentation showed at GENIVI
17:02:11 <kaz> ... using an underlying Node.js server
17:02:24 <kaz> ... something like this could be designed
17:02:54 <kaz> ... hope discussing appropriate level of designing
17:03:10 <kaz> paul: plugin, websocket connection, etc.
17:03:25 <kaz> ... the original vehicle API was written as browser plugin
17:03:36 <kaz> ... talking with underlying mechanism
17:04:03 <kaz> ... client-side API and websocket communication
17:04:22 <kaz> philippeC: in our showcase two years ago
17:04:30 <kaz> ... we used JS for the background side as well
17:04:40 <kaz> ... really simple way to implement
17:04:47 <kaz> ... full serialization of data
17:05:03 <kaz> ... communication with the application
17:05:14 <kaz> ... more C++ part on the application side
17:05:29 <kaz> ... FSA demonstrator uses HTML5 UI?
17:05:41 <kaz> philippeC: no QML meaning C++
17:06:04 <kaz> s/no QML meaning C++/no.  it's QML/
17:06:13 <kaz> klaus: so that is C++
17:06:51 <kaz> ... we have a transformation from Franca to WebIDL
17:07:21 <kaz> ... interested in how WebIDL is usually used
17:07:36 <kaz> paul: we're getting an action item
17:08:11 <kaz> ... would provide quick outline
17:08:22 <kaz> ... we have LBS stuff
17:08:57 <ted> ted has joined #genivi
17:10:06 <kaz> philippeC: would achieve consensus with the W3C side
17:10:15 <kaz> paul: agree
17:10:30 <kaz> ... action item for myself
17:10:43 <kaz> ... find the detail on what we have
17:10:47 <kaz> ... solution for tooling
17:11:01 <kaz> ... how to do that
17:11:18 <kaz> ... this is exactly what we do
17:11:39 <kaz> ... either of you, PhilippeC/PhilippeR
17:11:51 <kaz> philippeC: can provide any help from the GENIVI side
17:11:55 <kaz> ... on the LBS API
17:12:09 <kaz> ... what is the most suitable technology for the Web
17:12:31 <kaz> paul: common pattern of integration
17:12:45 <kaz> ... we have to decide what would be exposed to the Web runtime
17:12:55 <kaz> ... sort of plugin
17:13:27 <kaz> ted: just joined
17:13:48 <kaz> ... we should wait for the vehicle API's conclusion
17:14:01 <kaz> ... websocket or WebIDL
17:14:21 <kaz> ... LBS should be consistent with Vehicle API
17:14:55 <kaz> ... currently tendency with websocket
17:15:06 <kaz> paul: architectural pattern
17:15:15 <kaz> ... we'll come to consensus
17:15:29 <kaz> ... more get involved in the LBS work
17:15:38 <kaz> ... bring the architecture we think
17:15:55 <kaz> philippeR: we can offer the GENIVI public wiki
17:16:09 <kaz> ... we can share ideas, diagrams, etc. easily
17:16:22 <kaz> ... something we could provide
17:16:31 <kaz> paul: don't have strong preference
17:16:38 <kaz> ... working on the GENIVI side is fine
17:17:04 <kaz> ted: @@@
17:17:28 <kaz> paul: we have this collaboration meeting every 2 weeks
17:17:49 <kaz> ... would see what proposal would make sense
17:18:09 <kaz> philippeR: W3C's preference is WebIDL?
17:18:11 <kaz> paul: yes
17:18:27 <kaz> klaus: not concerning conversion
17:18:55 <kaz> ... would work for ideas/diagrams
17:19:07 <kaz> philippeC: everybody can work on the wiki
17:19:38 <kaz> klaus: would get consensus on the architecture
17:19:54 <kaz> ted: would like the socket approach
17:20:40 <kaz> klaus: would have common APIs on the C++ side
17:21:02 <kaz> ... which communicate with the Web side
17:21:11 <kaz> ... would work for that direction
17:21:27 <kaz> paul: we have some plan
17:21:47 <kaz> ... philippeC/philippeR, can you send information on GENIVI LBS?
17:22:05 <kaz> philippeR: Philippe C is working on that
17:22:13 <kaz> philippeC: can provide it
17:22:37 <kaz> paul: we got a call for the WG
17:22:58 <kaz> ... people are interested in security
17:23:37 <kaz> ... should be a very hot topic
17:23:48 <kaz> ... what would be the best way to talk in Paris?
17:24:04 <kaz> philippeR: previous security leader has left...
17:24:28 <kaz> ... need to discuss with Gunnar, the lead architect from GENIVI
17:24:48 <kaz> ... will have a couple of sessions on security
17:25:21 <kaz> ... but would see concrete proposals
17:25:27 <kaz> ... GENIVI can't address everything
17:25:38 <kaz> ... not only your unit but also other systems
17:26:11 <kaz> ... would be interested in having people from W3C
17:26:33 <kaz> paul: we come up with an architecture same security model can be applied
17:26:54 <kaz> philippeR: some kind of working session
17:27:12 <kaz> paul: good
17:27:19 <kaz> philippeR: time to split
17:28:27 <kaz> kaz: these minutes can be public. right?
17:28:32 <kaz> all: ok
17:28:35 <kaz> [ adjourned ]
17:28:40 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
17:28:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:28:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/16-genivi-minutes.html kaz
17:28:55 <klausbirken> bye!
17:33:52 <kaz> Chair: PhilippeC, Paul
17:33:54 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:33:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/16-genivi-minutes.html kaz
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