13:49:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dwbp
13:49:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/12-dwbp-irc
13:49:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 351
13:49:52 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dwbp
13:49:54 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DWBP
13:49:54 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
13:49:55 <trackbot> Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:49:55 <trackbot> Date: 12 February 2016
13:50:40 <deirdrelee> deirdrelee has joined #dwbp
13:51:32 <deirdrelee> trackbot, start meeting
13:51:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 351
13:51:36 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DWBP
13:51:37 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
13:51:37 <trackbot> Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:51:38 <trackbot> Date: 12 February 2016
13:53:23 <PWinstanley> PWinstanley has joined #dwbp
13:54:11 <PWinstanley> present+ PWinstanley
13:56:42 <phila> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160212
13:57:02 <phila> chair: Dee
13:57:22 <deirdrelee> present+ deirdrelee
14:01:09 <BernadetteLoscio> BernadetteLoscio has joined #dwbp
14:01:11 <EricKauz> EricKauz has joined #dwbp
14:03:01 <Yaso> present+ yaso
14:05:35 <riccardoAlbertoni> riccardoAlbertoni has joined #DWBP
14:05:47 <laufer> laufer has joined #dwbp
14:06:16 <deirdrelee> not too many people on call....anyone else from irc joining
14:06:49 <deirdrelee> scribe: PWinstanley
14:06:59 <Caroline> Caroline has joined #DWBP
14:07:01 <phila> Decision - only a handful of people, so we'll have an informal chat
14:07:07 <riccardoAlbertoni> i am trying
14:07:17 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: Last week's minutes:  accepted?
14:07:18 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: Accept minutes of last week's meeting https://www.w3.org/2016/02/05-dwbp-minutes
14:07:23 <Yaso> +1
14:07:27 <PWinstanley> +1
14:07:28 <deirdrelee> +1
14:07:32 <phila> +1
14:07:35 <BernadetteLoscio> present+ BernadetteLoscio
14:07:36 <Caroline> Present+ Caroline
14:07:43 <Caroline> +1
14:07:48 <deirdrelee> RESOLVED: Accept minutes of last week's meeting https://www.w3.org/2016/02/05-dwbp-minutes
14:08:04 <Yaso> q?
14:08:08 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: Agenda: go bak to the BP doc and talk aout implementation
14:08:13 <Yaso> q+
14:08:19 <Yaso> q-
14:08:35 <deirdrelee> PWinstanley: I'd offered to do some work on bps, but would like to know what is the current workflow?
14:08:36 <phila> PWinstanley: I'd offered to do some work on the BPs, but what is the current workflow for working with these?
14:08:49 <PWinstanley> PWinstanley: What is the workflow for working on BPs?
14:08:58 <riccardoAlbertoni> Present+ riccardoAlbertoni
14:09:05 <phila> present+ phila
14:09:12 <BernadetteLoscio> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp-status.html
14:09:28 <annette_g> annette_g has joined #dwbp
14:09:37 <annette_g> present+ annette_g
14:10:43 <laufer> present+ laufer
14:11:13 <Yaso> q+
14:11:24 <Yaso> q-
14:11:33 <PWinstanley> PWinstanley: how do I get access to Github?
14:12:09 <PWinstanley> phila: make edits in own repo, give a pull request, then let editors know and they will do the merging
14:12:35 <nandana> nandana has joined #DWBP
14:12:47 <PWinstanley> PWinstanley: Fork repo, edit, and issue pull request
14:13:43 <phila> q+
14:13:50 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: In Chairs meeting we talked about implementations for the BP doc, so that it gets to candidate rec, we need examples of c. >2 of each BP
14:13:52 <deirdrelee> ack phila
14:14:11 <deirdrelee> q+
14:14:25 <PWinstanley> phila: because it is a BP rather than a tech spec, the issue is what do you mean by an example...
14:14:50 <PWinstanley> ...mobile web BPs asked people to try to implement and then report back
14:15:13 <PWinstanley> ...the other way (Share-PSI) is to link to handbooks
14:15:48 <PWinstanley> ...we can make the case to the Director if an official doc presents a BP then if our advice is consistent then we can infer validity
14:15:58 <PWinstanley> ...we need evidence that people agree with us
14:16:34 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: 3 things: 1/ "evidence..."; should the evidence be from outside the group?
14:17:04 <PWinstanley> phila:  external validation is always better.  We can use the Zagreb F2F to get some of this
14:17:54 <PWinstanley> ...however, internal evidence is also good.  We can look at Scottish or Irish or other guides that WG members are involved in ... that is good too
14:18:13 <PWinstanley> ...we need >2 implementations per BP
14:19:15 <deirdrelee> q?
14:19:23 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: 2/ when we go through there might be BPs that are more challenging to get examples - so we should pick up those early so that we are not rushing around at the last minute trying to get them
14:19:31 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:19:38 <deirdrelee> ack deirdrelee
14:19:40 <deirdrelee> q+
14:20:09 <PWinstanley> phila: before candidate rec we mark "at risk", and they can be removed.  If we don't do that we are back to working draft if we cannot find the examples
14:20:22 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: wht if the implementation doesn't work?
14:20:55 <PWinstanley> phila:  if it becomes obvious that it is not working we rewrite or remove
14:20:57 <PWinstanley> q+
14:21:03 <annette_g> q+
14:21:25 <PWinstanley> ...there is no minimum period for candidate rec.... we can turn round in a few weeks
14:21:32 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio
14:21:34 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: so we can edit the doc?
14:22:33 <PWinstanley> phila: yes, but ideally you don't edit much.  Once cand rec ends, there is a call with a Director, and the Chairs/Editors prove wide review and examples.  Thereafter it is pretty much done
14:23:13 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: how should we start collecting implementations?  google doc?  Suggestions please
14:23:27 <deirdrelee> ack deirdrelee
14:23:59 <Caroline> q+
14:24:24 <PWinstanley> phila: use the wiki or github? but a google form might be a good idea.  I have a model from share-PSI
14:24:52 <deirdrelee> ack PWinstanley
14:25:36 <BernadetteLoscio> Phil, is this one: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1I-pGDOotOR4adCHwnayX6qYqme1K-UUHQgxuADNPQA0/viewform?c=0&w=1?
14:26:04 <PWinstanley> PWinstanley: if thereis a BP that doesn't 'work' then add it as an antipattern
14:26:19 <phila> Yes, that one BernadetteLoscio
14:26:24 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
14:26:30 <PWinstanley> annette_g: are our use cases illustrations of implementation?
14:26:51 <PWinstanley> phila: I guess so, but we need validation from others having implemented them
14:26:52 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:27:06 <deirdrelee> ack Caroline
14:27:32 <PWinstanley> Caroline: it is important to make the google doc/form - I don't think we will have time to handle emailed material
14:27:33 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio
14:28:18 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: about the Use Cases.  I am afraid of using these as evidence as we used these for requirements and the challenge from which we developed BP.  We need to avoid the circularty
14:28:33 <deirdrelee> q?
14:28:34 <PWinstanley> ...it is a circular argument
14:28:56 <Caroline> q+
14:29:05 <deirdrelee> ack Caroline
14:29:06 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: to create an action for BP editors to develop a process that we can start using from next week
14:29:44 <PWinstanley> Caroline: we can have 2 actions, one for editors and another developed from the Share-PSI quesitons (so we are not starting from the ground up)
14:30:05 <deirdrelee> ACTION for phila to send bp editors implementation-questionairre template
14:30:06 <trackbot> Error finding 'for'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/users>.
14:30:25 <deirdrelee> ACTION: phila to send bp editors implementation-questionaire template
14:30:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-229 - Send bp editors implementation-questionaire template [on Phil Archer - due 2016-02-19].
14:30:33 <nandana_> nandana_ has joined #DWBP
14:30:59 <deirdrelee> ACTION: Caroline to create process for gathering evidence of implementations, e.g. wiki, google form
14:30:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-230 - Create process for gathering evidence of implementations, e.g. wiki, google form [on Caroline Burle - due 2016-02-19].
14:31:15 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:31:19 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: back to BP issues...
14:31:38 <Caroline> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp-status.html
14:32:27 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: Yaso and Annette - I need help with the section on APIs, it is still open and there needs to be agreement re: the proposed changes.  Needs to be done ASAP
14:32:39 <PWinstanley> annette_g: I was planning to help
14:33:10 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio
14:33:26 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: do we need an action?  when we are going to ask for implementations, the BPs need to be stable.  We have many BPs in this section.  The work needs to be done before we ask for evidence
14:33:36 <Caroline> thank you annette_g :)
14:33:41 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:34:01 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: target date is 19 Feb - next Friday.  The following week we should be able to put out the call for implementations
14:35:06 <PWinstanley> phila: This needs a convo with the Director.  It may only be done after Zagreb.  Transition to CR is done after isses and actions are all closed.  The WG has to think it is finished.
14:35:23 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: so the main focus is on clising issues and comments
14:35:50 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio
14:36:03 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: the table by Newton is for examples and test.  The BP needs to be reviewed too - the whole thing needs a review, not just examples and tests
14:36:15 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: for the next 30 mins - open issues?
14:36:32 <PWinstanley> ...comments first please
14:36:36 <deirdrelee> Open comments: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/
14:37:13 <PWinstanley> ...10 open comments.  What is the status?
14:38:06 <PWinstanley> Caroline: I think we need to go down the list ....
14:38:12 <PWinstanley> ...most of them are old
14:38:36 <PWinstanley> phila: given that they are so old, ...
14:38:56 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: some can be closed - the ones from Christoph, for example
14:39:15 <PWinstanley> ...the ones from Eric remained open because I didn't know how to answer
14:39:33 <PWinstanley> ...others have a resolution already
14:40:16 <PWinstanley> phila: I think this needs to be discussed on the Chair's call on wednesday.  they need to be closed, but that depends on whether they have been answered
14:40:43 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: I think most already have a resolution.
14:41:10 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee:is there a need to contact the author again.
14:41:40 <annette_g> q+
14:41:56 <PWinstanley> phila: in the case of Eric's then the comments are being worked on, but we need to focus on process - the group needs to be satisfied that the comments have been worked on
14:42:04 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: going through them now
14:42:08 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
14:42:25 <PWinstanley> annette_g: can I wrap things up with Eric?  what's the protocol
14:42:46 <Caroline> :))))
14:42:47 <PWinstanley> phila: just chat with eric and sort it out, then reply back.  that will work
14:43:14 <deirdrelee> ACTION: annette_g to talk to Eric Wilde about open comments and reach resolution
14:43:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-231 - Talk to eric wilde about open comments and reach resolution [on Annette Greiner - due 2016-02-19].
14:43:43 <deirdrelee> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/3048
14:45:03 <deirdrelee> q?
14:45:04 <Caroline> q+
14:45:11 <deirdrelee> ack Caroline
14:45:51 <phila> q+ to highlight http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#EnrichData
14:46:36 <annette_g> q+
14:46:51 <annette_g> but but but
14:47:21 <deirdrelee> ack phila
14:47:22 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to highlight http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#EnrichData
14:47:24 <PWinstanley> Caroline: the data enrichment document will be prepared elsewhere and the link put into the BP, but this has not yet been done
14:47:32 <phila> -> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#EnrichData BP on enrichment
14:47:52 <PWinstanley> phila: annette, are you aware that there is a BP in the doc, it is light on content, but needs completing
14:48:04 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:48:04 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
14:48:12 <Caroline> q+
14:48:17 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio
14:48:18 <PWinstanley> annette_g: there are more ways of enriching data than simply adding more metadata
14:48:34 <phila> q+
14:48:36 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: this BP needs to be complemented
14:48:40 <Caroline> q-
14:49:45 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:49:52 <PWinstanley> annette_g: my initial problem was that it seemed to be looking only at adding metadata or doing some machine learning, but data enrichment can also be about e.g. segmenting a visual dataset to isolate patterns that have meaning.  This whole side is missing
14:51:03 <annette_g> q+
14:51:13 <PWinstanley> phila: rather than it being for Annette, it should be for Giselle and there is not enough interaction with the WG so we will have problem in finding evidence.  The action is on UPM (?) but it is quesionable that this BP will survive without significant effort
14:51:27 <laufer> +1 to phil
14:51:27 <PWinstanley> ...but it is for others to do this
14:52:04 <Caroline> s/UPM (?)/UFMG
14:52:05 <annette_g> I'm on the queue
14:52:13 <BernadetteLoscio> q-
14:52:34 <phila> q-
14:52:41 <phila> ack annette_g
14:52:45 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:53:07 <Caroline> q+
14:53:14 <PWinstanley> annette_g: this is a BP I care about.  maybe it isn't only UFMG, and perhaps we need to merge their point of view with mine
14:53:17 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio
14:53:59 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: what annette is describing is different to what UFMG were thinking - they are more ML people so enrichment by addition of metadata was their 'thing'
14:54:16 <PWinstanley> ...we need a definition here to help clarify the topic
14:54:21 <deirdrelee> ack Caroline
14:54:34 <PWinstanley> Caroline: maybe annette could collaborate with them?
14:55:23 <PWinstanley> ...would this work?  do we still have time?
14:55:36 <PWinstanley> annette_g: I am worried about workload, but can give it a try
14:55:55 <phila> Personally, I think the conversation with Erik Wilde should take a higher priority
14:56:29 <BernadetteLoscio> It should be possible to perform some data enrichment tasks in order to aggregate value to data, therefore providing more value for user applications and services.
14:56:38 <Caroline> +1 to phila
14:56:41 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: we can have the discussion by mail - but we need clarification on the semantics of 'enrichment'/  I think the requirement is closer to what annette was describing
14:56:52 <deirdrelee> q?
14:57:11 <PWinstanley> ...i agree that the chat with eric is important, it should take priority
14:57:39 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: 2 others for annette .... can these be looked at as well please.
14:57:45 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:57:53 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: last few minutes....
14:57:55 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio
14:58:02 <phila> q+ to ask for help with a JSON problem
14:58:31 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: we have comments from Maurino Andrea - I contacted him before publicaiton of the second draft.  I think these can be closed.  Chairs can confirm.
14:58:57 <PWinstanley> ...I can message the list with the links
14:59:01 <deirdrelee> ack phila
14:59:01 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to ask for help with a JSON problem
14:59:02 <annette_g> q+
14:59:12 <phila> action-228
14:59:12 <trackbot> action-228 -- Phil Archer to Fix bpconfig.js to restore contributors to bp doc -- due 2016-02-12 -- OPEN
14:59:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/actions/228
14:59:27 <phila> -> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bpconfig.js BPConfig file
15:00:06 <annette_g> I could look at it
15:00:14 <Yaso> I can help
15:00:30 <PWinstanley> phila: I need help with an action to fix (action 228) - I cannot debug it.  The BP config file isn't showing up the list of contributors
15:00:31 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
15:00:34 <Yaso> :-) We need an action for that or it's ok?
15:01:12 <PWinstanley> annette_g: in talking with eric I will focus on the API stuff, but there is more that Eric commented on.  Will that be dealth with at the Chairs' meeting?
15:01:35 <phila> s/dealth/dealt/
15:01:38 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: perhaps the BP editors should check first, then writing Eric a note
15:02:12 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:02:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/12-dwbp-minutes.html phila
15:02:33 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: we already provided comments in the tracker.  Open ones are because we don't know how to handle them
15:02:49 <PWinstanley> annette_g: we need to see if we have replied to Eric ....
15:02:54 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:02:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/12-dwbp-minutes.html phila
15:03:11 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:03:15 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:03:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/12-dwbp-minutes.html phila
15:03:15 <PWinstanley> BernadetteLoscio: we had a lot of discussion with him on the mailing list.  his messages were replied to promptly
15:03:44 <PWinstanley> ...I am going to go through all the comments and send the group a message indicating status for each
15:03:58 <PWinstanley> deirdrelee: thanks to all for the useful meeting.
15:03:59 <laufer> bye all...
15:04:00 <riccardoAlbertoni> bye, have good weekend|
15:04:11 <annette_g> bye!
15:04:18 <Caroline> bye! great scribing PWinstanley!
15:04:41 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:04:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/12-dwbp-minutes.html phila
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