<Joshue108> Scribelist: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

<yatil> trackbot, which meeting is this?

<trackbot> Sorry, yatil, I don't understand 'trackbot, which meeting is this?'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

<AWK> +AWK

<yatil> trackbot, status

<yatil> trackbot, is the meeting started?

<trackbot> Sorry, yatil, I don't understand 'trackbot, is the meeting started?'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

<AWK> +AWK

<AWK> Chair: AWK

<AWK> Chair: Joshue

Quickref update

<yatil> http://w3c.github.io/wai-wcag-quickref/?currentsidebar=%23col_customize

<adam_solomon__> eric: have all data, mcooper prepared json file, initiative for tagging system - in process, bringing to wcag about two weeks

<adam_solomon__> david: whats wrong?

<adam_solomon__> eric: open one up the other is disabled, etc

<adam_solomon__> david: is this using jquery collapsible?

<adam_solomon__> eric: bootstrap, but final version may not include accordion

<Mike_Elledge> looks great!

Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20160209

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20160209/results

item 156

<adam_solomon__> joshua: regarding spacial relationships, zoom

<adam_solomon__> alastair, laura: consider rwd

<adam_solomon__> awk: using ctrl+ zooms (may not adjust layout), are we talking about the old zoom technique? as opposed to resize browser

<jon_avila> +1 to James

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G142.html

<adam_solomon__> james: can fix this easily: test procedure works (doesn't mention the spacial problem), just description needs work. With zoom we may not want mobile redesign, all important content should still be available

<AWK> maybe use the language from the procedure in the description:

<AWK> change: This technique requires that the zoom function preserve all spatial relationships on the page and that all functionality continues to be available.

<AWK> to: This technique requires that the zoom function preserve all content and functionality on the page.

<adam_solomon__> james: need to fix this easily - because as is discourages rwd because the tech mentions ctrl+

<jon_avila> I often run into mobile versions of sites on my desktop because I use low resolution. Sometimes those sites don't have all the same functionality in the RWD version. So this is a new issue that is important.

<adam_solomon__> mike: separate technique as opposed to just browser zoom

<adam_solomon__> alastair: +1 to james comment that technique as is may discourage rwd (may be obsolete)

<David> +1

<jamesn> +1 to that

<adam_solomon__> jon: i use low res and immdeiately get mobile view, zoom going to mobile biew and losing content may be accessibility issue

<adam_solomon__> awk: even if we produce new tech should still update old one

<jon_avila> horizontal scrolling is not relevant to this success criteria IMO

<adam_solomon__> mike: point out horizontal scrolling

<adam_solomon__> jon: for 1.4.4 can still have scroll

<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/blob/Issue156/wcag20/sources/techniques/general/G142.xml

<Joshue108> change: This technique requires that the zoom function preserve all spatial relationships on the page and that all functionality continues to be available.

<Joshue108> to: This technique requires that the zoom function preserve all content and functionality on the page.

<adam_solomon__> awk: suggest removing words spacial relationships see earlier edit 18:22

<Joshue108> Suggestion: This technique requires that the zoom function preserve all content, relationships and functionality on the page.

<adam_solomon__> joshua: not clear what preserve all content is

<adam_solomon__> awk: concerned if zoom causes text content to be hidden like in mobile view

<laura> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/commit/582ae7d0658fb17c1010fcfe0c4886135b2804ae?diff=split

<yatil> --> Diff: https://github.com/w3c/wcag/compare/master...Issue156

<Greg> I suggest that if we use the phrase "preserve all content" we be very clear as to whether or not that prohibits the page from hiding some content (e.g. under a collapsible menu).

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-scale.html

im back

joshua: many devices - can zoom in without resize

wayne: hard resize is critical because people cant read long lines of text

<Greg> As I noted in my response to 156, while most desktop browsers support zoom that reflows, many mobile browsers do not. That leaves page-provided functionality the only easy way to get enlarged text that doesn't require horizontal scrolling.

greg: re: some systems dont support zoom so in those cases must provide text resize,

<SarahHorton> Also some people resize text in system settings

alastair: where is best place to have discussion about these issues

Joshue: low vision task force

RESOLUTION: leave open

Proposed change to 2.2 in Extension Requirements

<AWK> I thought that Greg's edits were good

<alastairc> For option one, does it need the 'scope' term? E.g. "Existing success criteria may be altered by an extension as long as the resulting change continues to either satisfy, reinforce or strengthen the conformance requirements of any given WCAG 2.0 success criteria."

joshua: use of word scope to communicate the idea that extensions affect change in sc hence verbose

greg: scope doesnt convey - try a different word

<AWK> Extensions which modify existing success criteria must ensure that pages which satisfy the changed success criteria also satisfy the original version.

awk: i do have problem with use of scope, see my earlier suggestion (18:57)

<Zakim> jnurthen, you wanted to say i have a big problem with option 1

<alastairc> +1 on AWK's version at 16:57 (or xx:57, seems to be time zone dependant).

+1 to awks option

<Joshue108> +1 to AWKS suggested text

<Wayne> +1 Andrew if we don't find new confusions

<jon_avila> I'm not sure it will solve their concerns

<jnurthen> +1 to AWK version

<SarahHorton> I would substitute "which" with "that" in both cases — just an editorial comment

Jon: awks option wont assuage concerns

joshua: i need to consider this more

<Joshue108> I like Alastairs text

<Joshue108> "Existing success criteria may be altered by an extension as long as the resulting change continues to either satisfy, reinforce or strengthen the conformance requirements of any given WCAG 2.0 success criteria."

<Joshue108> dropping the scope.

andrew: we should come up with something to get out to public comment

<jnurthen> change "any given" to "the original"

<Joshue108> "Existing success criteria may be altered by an extension as long as the resulting change continues to either satisfy, reinforce or strengthen the conformance requirements of WCAG 2.0 success criteria.

andrew: "reinforce strengthen" language not appropriate

<alastairc> Another example: 1.4.4 could be expanded to include preventing horizontal scrolling...

andrew: we could add more specific example for change in criteria level to clarify the point

wayne: if extension intersects with sc then it makes it stronger

andrew: doesnt make it weaker

<jon_avila> What about adding "Within an extension" to the beginning of the sentence: Within an extension a modified existing success criteria must ensure that pages which satisfy the changed success criteria also satisfy the original version.

RESOLUTION: leave open - take it up on list

LVTF Requirements Document review

<laura> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html

wg hopefully will review lv doc later this week

<Joshue108> Digital Publishing Accessibility Note

Dpub review (http://w3c.github.io/dpub-accessibility/)

<Joshue108> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-accessibility/

andrew: volunteers needed to check this doc

wayne: i can help

kathy: i can help but not right now

Comments on techs and understanding

andrew: when cooper returns, tecchs and understanding with new changes next week for review and target early march for pub

<Mike_Elledge> bye all

andrew: github issues: everyone should take a look at these issues and contribute

<AWK> trackbot, end meeting

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144  of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Mike Elledge/Mike_Elledge/
Succeeded: s/Sarah Horton/Sarah_Horton/
Succeeded: s/joshua/Joshue/
Succeeded: s/wayne: awks/Jon: awks/
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: adam_solomon
Inferring Scribes: adam_solomon
Default Present: AWK, Josh, wayne, jon_avila, JF, Sarah_Swierenga, MichaelC, Katie, Haritos-Shea, JamesNurthen, Laura, Mike, Elledge, Jan, Rakesh, Eric, LisaS, Kathy, David_MacDonald, Joshue108, Srini, EricE, marcjohlic, adam_solomon, Greg_Lowney, MoeKraft, AlastairC, adam_solomon__, Horton, Greg
Present: AWK Josh wayne jon_avila JF Sarah_Swierenga MichaelC Katie Haritos-Shea JamesNurthen Laura Mike Elledge Jan Rakesh Eric LisaS Kathy David_MacDonald Joshue108 Srini EricE marcjohlic adam_solomon Greg_Lowney MoeKraft AlastairC adam_solomon__ Horton Greg Mike_Elledge Sarah_Horton
Found Date: 09 Feb 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/02/09-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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