19:55:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdw
19:55:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-sdw-irc
19:55:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:55:42 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sdw
19:55:44 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
19:55:44 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
19:55:45 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
19:55:45 <trackbot> Date: 03 February 2016
19:55:56 <eparsons> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:56:13 <eparsons> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160203
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19:56:35 <eparsons> present+ eparsons
19:56:45 <eparsons> chair: eparsons
19:57:02 <Lewis_John_McGibbney> Lewis_John_McGibbney has joined #sdw
19:57:08 <Lewis_John_McGibbney> Afternoon Folks,
19:57:18 <Lewis_John_McGibbney> Can someone PM me the Webex login?
19:57:20 <Lewis_John_McGibbney> Than kyou
19:57:20 <eparsons> Hello Lewis_John_McGibbney
19:57:43 <Payam> Payam has joined #sdw
19:57:47 <eparsons> It's the topic..
19:57:49 <Linda> Linda has joined #sdw
19:57:57 <Lewis_John_McGibbney> Grand
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19:58:14 <Linda> present+ Linda
19:58:17 <ScottSimmons> present+ ScottSimmons
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19:59:08 <RaulGarciaCastro> present+ RaulGarciaCastro
19:59:41 <eparsons> regrets: Kerry,Simon, Jeremy, Lars, Clemens, Bill, Andrea, Andreas, Josh
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20:00:01 <frans> present+ frans
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20:00:30 <ChrisLittle> present+ ChrisLittle
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20:02:29 <ClausStadler> present+ ClausStadler
20:02:47 <Payam> present+ Payam
20:03:05 <eparsons> scribe: linda
20:03:08 <ChrisLittle> +1 to Linda
20:03:13 <frans> thank you Linda
20:03:25 <Linda> eparsons: may not be a full length call
20:03:26 <eparsons> Topic : Approve last week's minutes
20:03:33 <eparsons> Proposed : Approve last week's minutes
20:03:35 <DanhLePhuoc> DanhLePhuoc has joined #sdw
20:03:40 <eparsons> http://www.w3.org/2016/01/27-sdw-minutes
20:03:43 <Linda> +1
20:03:46 <Lewis_John_McGibbney> +1
20:03:50 <RaulGarciaCastro> +1
20:03:51 <ScottSimmons> +1
20:03:51 <frans> +1
20:03:53 <DanhLePhuoc> present+ DanhLePhuoc
20:03:55 <ClausStadler> +1
20:03:56 <DanhLePhuoc> +1
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20:03:56 <ahaller2> +1
20:03:57 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
20:03:59 <eparsons> Resolved : Approve last week's minutes
20:04:02 <ahaller2> present+ ahaller2
20:04:03 <ChrisLittle> 0 not oresent
20:04:06 <eparsons> Topic : Patent Call
20:04:07 <robin_> present+ robin
20:04:09 <robin_> +1
20:04:12 <eparsons> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
20:04:30 <eparsons> Topic : FYI Joint call with DWBP 17th February
20:04:50 <Linda> eparsons: the next call after the f2f will be a joint call with the data on the web best practice group
20:05:01 <Linda> ... to deal with items in coordination with this group
20:05:10 <Linda> ... particularly the editors
20:05:22 <Linda> .. may prepare this in the f2f next week
20:05:50 <eparsons> Topic : Review of SSN wiki pages
20:05:54 <frans> good idea to link up!
20:06:08 <Linda> eparsons: Kerry has asked us to do this
20:06:16 <eparsons> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/SSN_Wish_List
20:06:17 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sdw
20:06:38 <frans> I am interested in SSN, to learn some more about the subject
20:06:40 <Linda> ... this is a link to a brain dump by Kerry about the thing she expects to be part of the ssn deliverable
20:06:52 <Linda> ... lets work through this list and see if anything's missing
20:07:02 <Payam> +1
20:07:09 <Linda> ... anyone closer to the topic who wants to walk us through these?
20:07:09 <Payam> +q
20:07:16 <eparsons> ack next
20:07:17 <frans> Has anyone ever used SSN?
20:07:20 <MattPerry> present+ MattPerry
20:07:26 <Linda> Payam: i was involved in ssn work
20:07:40 <KJanowicz> I was involved as well
20:08:19 <KJanowicz> q+
20:08:28 <Linda> ... one of the key issues was the modularity of the ontology.
20:08:48 <Linda> ... we started creating modules, Simon knows a lot about this
20:08:54 <Linda> ... became a complex model
20:09:03 <Linda> ... we omitted multilanguage support
20:09:30 <frans> Will the idea of SSN being an upper ontology remain intact?
20:09:31 <Linda> ... another thing we didn't do was create tools or libraries to transform CSV to SSN
20:09:42 <eparsons> ack next
20:09:51 <Linda> eparsons: KJanowicz has a comment
20:10:03 <Linda> KJanowicz: may jump in if I have comments
20:10:39 <Linda> Payam: ssn became popular but tools are lacking
20:11:07 <Linda> KJanowicz: originally semantic sensor network ontology, but also went into observation part.
20:11:17 <Linda> ... but missing is unit and type of measurement values
20:11:33 <Linda> Payam: correct
20:12:23 <Linda> ... the next item: probably actuation is meant. This is not supported by ssn but is requested. A group may have tried to do this.
20:12:34 <eparsons> q?
20:12:52 <eparsons> rrsagent, draft minutes
20:12:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-sdw-minutes.html eparsons
20:13:07 <Linda> ... network structure: not clear what kerry means here
20:13:08 <KJanowicz> q+
20:13:26 <Linda> ... ssn structure is device oriented, we never looked at human sensory data
20:13:26 <eparsons> ack next
20:14:05 <Linda> KJanowicz: ssn supports human sensors, but explicitly excludes this in the definition
20:14:21 <Payam> correct
20:14:33 <Linda> eparsons: can you clarify?
20:15:29 <Linda> KJanowicz: for example, if I say it is raining, this is an observation
20:15:44 <frans> So this is about humans using their own senses? Not humans carrying devices?
20:16:10 <ChrisLittle> q+
20:16:17 <KJanowicz> q+
20:16:29 <Linda> eparsons: seems like a broader scope then. Any data/observation collected by any actor.
20:16:30 <eparsons> ack next
20:17:31 <Linda> ChrisLittle: I think it's good to have activation and actuation.
20:17:40 <frans> Current definition of sensor seems not to exclude human senses: https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/ssnx/ssn#Sensor
20:17:45 <Linda> ... and about human observations: there are frameworks in which this can be very reliable information
20:18:01 <ahaller2> q+
20:18:21 <Linda> ... so am in favor of them being in scope
20:18:29 <eparsons> ack next
20:18:36 <Linda> ... and ogc standards support this, this could plug the gap in ssn
20:19:12 <Linda> KJanowicz: output of computer models can also be called observations
20:19:56 <eparsons> ack next
20:20:21 <Linda> [missed a bit]
20:20:33 <Linda> ahaller2: important to tackle this
20:20:50 <Linda> ... about the values: important to work together with the csv on the web WG.
20:20:58 <KJanowicz> +1
20:21:05 <Linda> ... they also have a JSON encoding
20:21:12 <Payam> ahaller2: it is important to work on actuation- WoT group also finds this important
20:21:33 <ChrisLittle> q+
20:21:37 <eparsons> ack next
20:21:44 <Linda> eparsons: good point. There is much more interest in this from a broader community now.
20:22:42 <Linda> ChrisLittle: csv for transmitting observations leads me to think about the difference between precision and accuracy which is sometimes ignored. Don't know how ssn addresses that.
20:23:15 <Linda> eparsons: broader than just ssn, would be good to have pointers.
20:23:34 <frans> Precision and accuracy should be addressed in the data on the web context, I think
20:23:41 <eparsons> rrsagent, draft minutes
20:23:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-sdw-minutes.html eparsons
20:23:48 <Linda> Payam: systems platforms and deployment: details of this are not included in ssn
20:24:01 <Linda> ... e.g. what are the details of systems that should be specified?
20:24:08 <Linda> ... in ssn this is not specified, only some examples.
20:24:23 <Linda> ... validation: we have a validation tool but this could be made more formal.
20:24:37 <Linda> ... like HTML validators etc.
20:25:11 <Linda> ... ssn doesn't have a descriptive model for how to describe location.
20:25:35 <Linda> ... if sensing resources are mobile, it is unclear how to specifiy this
20:25:58 <Linda> ... ssn has some examples, but they are fragmented and not detailed.
20:26:50 <Linda> ... uncertainty: there is nothing in ssn to deal with trust, quality etc.
20:27:43 <Linda> ... IoT light might become a note; the idea is to have a simple version, ssn light, a compact version that would be useful to web of things WG.
20:27:57 <Linda> ... stories: linking to best practices, examples of where ssn is adopted.
20:28:26 <Linda> ... Ontology classes are described etc, but there is no How to get started with SSN tutorial. This would be helpful.
20:28:43 <Linda> ... Also nothing about reasoning with ssn. Examples would be useful.
20:28:55 <KJanowicz> q+
20:29:09 <Linda> ... At the moment ssn is specified in RDF, it would be good to see if it can be specified in JSON(LD?)
20:29:19 <eparsons> ack next
20:29:24 <Linda> ... Also, looking at provenance.
20:30:25 <Linda> KJanowicz: ssn emerged on the linked data side. Viewed as records, while OGC views the values as events.
20:30:48 <Linda> ... If we take Dolce away my proposal would be not to talk about events at all.
20:31:28 <Linda> Payam: sampling features
20:31:40 <Linda> KJanowicz: in ssn there is not much about sampling strategies.
20:32:19 <Linda> Payam: that's it
20:32:24 <Linda> eparsons: any comments anyone?
20:32:54 <Linda> ... or a question: how realistic is delivering 70% of those wishes?
20:32:55 <Payam> +q
20:32:57 <KJanowicz> q+
20:33:02 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
20:33:09 <Payam> ack Payam
20:33:19 <Linda> ... seems to me like we need to prioritize them. And do some scoping.
20:33:19 <frans> q+
20:33:21 <ChrisLittle> q+
20:33:29 <eparsons> ack next
20:33:40 <Linda> KJanowicz: unrealistic, we should focus on ssn light
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20:33:55 <Payam> agree- focusing on SSN-lite is a good idea
20:33:56 <Linda> eparsons: do you have a particular community in mind that would need ssn light?
20:34:00 <Payam> +q
20:34:12 <ahaller2> +1 for SSN-Lite
20:34:25 <DanhLePhuoc> +q
20:34:26 <Linda> KJanowicz: e.g. big repositories of earth obeservation data, domain models
20:34:26 <eparsons> ack next
20:34:57 <Linda> BartvanLeeuwen: last time i wondered why this is on our charter. It's really a lot.
20:35:23 <Linda> ... we could say something about how you would encode location, this is close to our SDW BP work
20:35:37 <KJanowicz> q+
20:35:41 <eparsons> ack next
20:36:11 <eparsons> evening phil
20:36:20 <Linda> frans: we have a task force for ssn, what about bringing in outside people to help work on this?
20:36:33 <Linda> ... we are open to collaboration, right?
20:37:04 <eparsons> ack next
20:37:14 <Linda> eparsons: even with collaborators it's a lot of work. We should focus on the spatial aspects. But collaboration would absolutely be a good idea.
20:37:21 <KJanowicz> we have a lot of expertise about SSN in this group
20:37:37 <Linda> ChrisLittle: guidance of what should be in ssn or not would be good - in relation to o&m.
20:37:49 <Linda> ... where's the overlap and what does ssn do that o&m doesn't?
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20:37:59 <KJanowicz> E.g., o&m is not about sensor networks
20:38:26 <Linda> eparsons: good point, could you add this to the wiki?
20:38:54 <Payam> O&M is be also complex at times to describe the data; isn't also described in XML?
20:39:17 <Linda> there's a proposed json encoding just out, Payam
20:39:22 <eparsons> ack next
20:39:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-sdw-minutes.html phila
20:39:38 <KJanowicz> o&m as such can also not directly used for semantically enabled Linked Data but there is a version from SCox that does.
20:39:55 <Linda> Payam: ssn is popular, if we could create a working model for data in ssn, this would increase the impact.
20:40:21 <Lewis_John_McGibbney> I need to drop off early today folks. Thanks for the insight into SSN. I am still lacking context but this has helped a lot. I look forward to seeing more of this topic on list.
20:40:26 <Linda> ... e.g. location specification and measurement data and make it modular and extensible
20:40:28 <eparsons> action ChrisLittle to add to wiki SSN vs. O&M illustration
20:40:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-134 - Add to wiki ssn vs. o&m illustration [on Chris Little - due 2016-02-10].
20:40:33 <eparsons> ack next
20:41:08 <Linda> DanhLePhuoc: I'm currently in Web of THings WG. We have a lot of industry parties that have sensor devices.
20:41:16 <Linda> ... they want interoperability and ssn is a candidate.
20:41:27 <Linda> ... problem is ssn is to big, ssn-lite is needed
20:41:47 <Linda> ... good modular version would be adopted 6 months ago
20:42:03 <eparsons> rrsagent, draft minutes
20:42:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-sdw-minutes.html eparsons
20:42:07 <Linda> ... internet of things needs spatial data
20:42:37 <Payam> +q
20:42:52 <eparsons> ack next
20:42:53 <Linda> eparsons: for ssn-lite we would need to identify clearly what the target community is.
20:43:20 <Linda> KJanowicz: ssn is broader than o&m. The latter is not about sensor network etc.
20:43:44 <ChrisLittle> q+
20:44:20 <Linda> ... secondly, a lot of data does not require a lot of detail, often not entire ssn is needed, only a metadata record about the instrument, eg in oceanography.
20:44:26 <Linda> ... ssn lite would rule here too
20:44:35 <eparsons> ack next
20:44:50 <phila> zakim, close the queue
20:44:50 <Zakim> ok, phila, the speaker queue is closed
20:44:56 <Linda> Payam: ssn can now not be used for annotating data
20:44:59 <eparsons> ack next
20:45:14 <KJanowicz> I could not hear Payam
20:45:33 <KJanowicz> q+
20:45:36 <Linda> ChrisLittle: I may be misunderstanding but there are a lot of standards on top of o&m that allow you to describe networks etc
20:45:45 <Linda> ... thats why scoping ssn is important
20:46:00 <KJanowicz> There is a lot of voice
20:46:04 <KJanowicz> noise
20:46:15 <Linda> ... in metereology and oceanography etc there are a lot of ontologies existing. A lot of work done.
20:46:19 <eparsons> KJanowicz can you 1:1 with Payam
20:46:22 <Payam> I said that SSN specifies abstract concepts and their relations; SSN-Lite should help to create SSN instances to describe sensors/data
20:46:36 <Linda> thanks payam
20:46:40 <frans> Thanks, the SSN information was educational.
20:46:50 <phila> zakim, open the queue
20:46:50 <Zakim> ok, phila, the speaker queue is open
20:46:51 <Linda> eparsons: thanks for this useful discussion and ideas.
20:46:57 <KJanowicz> ChrisLittle: yes, see http://schema.geolink.org/
20:47:05 <eparsons> Topic : F2F homework for next week
20:47:32 <phila> s/Topic :/Topic:/
20:47:34 <Linda> eparsons: one of the requirements is to continue work on the BP. For that we need examples!
20:48:23 <Linda> ... Bring examples to the f2f that can fit into the BP. There are slots for them already in the BP.
20:48:53 <Linda> ... Examples should be on the web; with a description why it is a best practice.
20:49:11 <phila> q?
20:49:16 <phila> q+
20:49:16 <frans> q+
20:49:19 <Linda> ... Really helpful if we can get plenty of these.
20:49:26 <eparsons> ack next
20:50:21 <Payam> +q
20:50:26 <eparsons> ack next
20:50:29 <Linda> phila: Can you prioritise? Try to match best practices with specific persons?
20:50:47 <Linda> frans: can we bring examples of not so good practices?
20:50:53 <KJanowicz> +1 for the anti-patterns
20:50:58 <ScottSimmons> must leave early, bye
20:50:58 <eparsons> ack next
20:51:01 <Linda> eparsons: absolutely
20:51:06 <ChrisLittle> +1 to bad practice
20:51:32 <phila> present+ phila
20:51:42 <Linda> Payam: We editors discussed this. If someone has a model example, we can discuss this and gain concensus on how to specify the examples.
20:52:02 <Linda> ...during the meeting we can then assign tasks to specific persons.
20:52:05 <Linda> eparsons: what mechanism?
20:52:09 <Linda> Payam: email list
20:52:34 <Linda> Payam: we need to have 1 or 2 to start with, so we can decide what the form should be.
20:52:43 <Linda> eparsons: anyone who can contribute one before next week?
20:52:59 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
20:53:03 <eparsons> ack next
20:53:15 <Linda> BartvanLeeuwen: as narrative or as something I can show?
20:53:37 <Payam> +q
20:53:37 <Linda> eparsons: not a huge narrative, something you can point at and a sentence describing it would be good
20:53:41 <Linda> BartvanLeeuwen: will see what I can do
20:53:53 <eparsons> Topic : CEO-LD Report
20:53:54 <Payam> ack Payam
20:54:36 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2015/ceo-ld CEO-LD Project
20:54:39 <eparsons> action BartvanLeeuwen Email Public List with example of BP as an initial example for F2F
20:54:39 <trackbot> Error finding 'BartvanLeeuwen'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.
20:54:48 <Linda> phila: project funded by british embassy in Being. It's a specifically UK thing.
20:55:06 <Linda> ... idea is that they will contribute to Coverage work of this WG
20:55:17 <ahaller2> s/Being/Beijing
20:55:43 <Linda> ... everyone involved in CEO-LD group is involved in this group as well.
20:56:12 <Linda> ... next meeting Sunday 28th february. Nothing has been done since September.
20:56:38 <Linda> ... Jon Blower has done cool work regarding this
20:56:41 <phila> -> https://github.com/Reading-eScience-Centre/coverage-restapi/blob/master/spec.md Coverage Data REST API Core Specification
20:57:05 <Linda> ... covers things we will be concerned about in this group when we work on this
20:57:22 <Linda> ... eg subsetting, how webby is it, etc
20:57:34 <Linda> ... if you're interested in coverages, look at this work
20:57:36 <eparsons> rrsagent, draft minutes
20:57:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-sdw-minutes.html eparsons
20:57:45 <Linda> ... see the Melodies project for this
20:58:07 <eparsons> 2 minute warning !!!
20:58:09 <Linda> ... chunks of this work could be useful also for our BP
20:58:55 <Linda> ... talks about JSON, content negotiation, and other stuff we could find useful. Thanks to Jeremy for pointing this out.
20:59:10 <phila> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ceo-ld/2016Feb Mailing list
20:59:14 <Linda> ... project is open to anyone to join the mailing list
21:00:18 <KJanowicz> q+
21:00:28 <eparsons> ack next
21:00:42 <BartvanLeeuwen> see you next week !
21:00:49 <phila> Linda++
21:00:49 <Linda> KJanowicz: [missed that last bit]
21:00:57 <KJanowicz> +1 for Linda
21:01:00 <ChrisLittle> bye and thanks to Linda
21:01:10 <KJanowicz> bye bye
21:01:12 <Payam> thanks and bye
21:01:14 <phila> RRSAgent, generate minutes
21:01:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-sdw-minutes.html phila
21:01:16 <Linda> eparsons: thanks everyone!
21:01:16 <eparsons> bye !!
21:01:17 <Linda> bye!
21:01:26 <frans> bye!
21:01:37 <eparsons> rrsagent, draft minutes
21:01:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-sdw-minutes.html eparsons
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