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19:43:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-aapi-irc
19:43:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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19:43:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
19:43:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
19:43:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
19:43:30 <trackbot> Date: 26 January 2016
19:44:08 <clown> clown has changed the topic to: WebEx Access Code 641 707 405 (Next meeting 02–Jan-2016)
19:44:17 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:44:21 <clown> agenda: this
19:44:49 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'pause', clown.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
19:45:28 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1667 (All)
19:45:40 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1531 (All) Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text"
19:45:51 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1535 (Joseph/James) AXAPI mappings for aria-current (notifications).
19:45:59 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1569/1585 (Joseph/Cynthia/Jason) Add to section on AAPI differences highlighting the features of UIA.
19:46:16 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1593 (Cynthia) Compare implementations of AAPI managed states and look for gaps.
19:46:25 <clown> agenda+ Question:  need mapping entry for default value of aria-current?
19:47:01 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1691: (Joseph/Cynthia) Propose UIA mapping for aria-errormessage.
19:47:09 <clown> agenda+ Triage: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23
19:48:01 <clown> agenda+ Triage bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
19:48:01 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
19:48:15 <clown> agenda+ be done.
19:54:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aapi
19:57:07 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:57:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-aapi-minutes.html clown
19:59:12 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
19:59:32 <joanie> scribe: joanie
20:00:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
20:02:26 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
20:06:20 <joanie> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
20:10:53 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
20:10:54 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ACTION-1667 (All)" taken up [from clown]
20:11:09 <clown> action-1667?
20:11:09 <trackbot> action-1667 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update the mapping spec for aria role region to reflect its landmark inheritance as defined in the aria 1.1 spec. -- due 2015-07-06 -- PENDINGREVIEW
20:11:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1667
20:12:10 <joanie> JS: I did this action a long time ago.
20:12:17 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-region
20:12:40 <joanie> JS: This was needed because we changed the spec so that role region now inherits from landmark.
20:12:56 <joanie> JS: You'll notice a lot of "TBD" instances in the table.
20:13:19 <joanie> JS: ATK is mapped to ROLE_LANDMARK with an object attribute of "xml-roles:region" as per Joanie.
20:13:41 <joanie> CS: If you assign an action to me, I'll get you the mapping for UIA.
20:13:50 <joanie> RS: What does Surkov want for the base role?
20:14:07 <joanie> JS: You (Rich) have an action somewhere to contact Surkov.
20:14:20 <joanie> JS: I think you may have done this action already. But I don't recall the outcome.
20:14:58 <joanie> RS: I'll write Surkov.
20:15:16 <joanie> JS: I'm assigning action-1667 to Cynthia.
20:15:28 <joanie> JS: When she is done, she can re-assign it back to me.
20:17:03 <joanie> RS: Email sent, and ARIA list copied.
20:17:20 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:17:20 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1531 (All) Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text"" taken up [from clown]
20:17:25 <clown> action-1531?
20:17:25 <trackbot> action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
20:17:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1531
20:17:34 <joanie> JS: I made notes in the action.
20:17:57 <joanie> JS: I sent email to Jamie on the list to ask if he really wants ROLE_SYSTEM_STATICTEXT.
20:18:01 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0101.html
20:18:20 <joanie> JS: Jamie replied that it was "controversial," but that he did think he wanted that mapping.
20:18:41 <joanie> JS: Jamie also clarified that ROLE_TEXTFRAME is not necessarily a block element.
20:18:50 <joanie> JS: There's an inline property.
20:19:05 <joanie> JS: Jamie still prefers the statictext role.
20:19:17 <joanie> JS: I've since pinged Surkov to see what he thinks.
20:19:51 <joanie> RS: If Surkov is around, I can ask him now.
20:21:38 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:21:38 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-1535 (Joseph/James) AXAPI mappings for aria-current (notifications)." taken up [from clown]
20:21:46 <clown> action-1535?
20:21:46 <trackbot> action-1535 -- James Craig to Investigate the axapi mappings for aria-current. -- due 2015-08-18 -- OPEN
20:21:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1535
20:22:05 <clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146012#c21
20:22:21 <joanie> JS: I asked on the WebKit bug if, when you change aria-current, does it spawn a notification in WebKit and what is the correct mapping?
20:22:40 <joanie> JS: The response (at the URL above) is no notification.
20:22:48 <joanie> JS: I suspect Joanie will want a real notification.
20:22:51 <joanie> JD: Yes.
20:22:55 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#event-aria-current
20:23:51 <joanie> JD: These things (my platform and the Mac) are independent (even in WebKit). So it's no problem.
20:24:03 <joanie> JS: I would like to close this action (1535). Objections?
20:24:11 <joanie> RS: Closing it is fine with me.
20:24:44 <joanie> RESOLUTION: Close action-1535 as complete.
20:25:09 <clown> close action-1535
20:25:09 <trackbot> Closed action-1535.
20:25:24 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:25:24 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1569/1585 (Joseph/Cynthia/Jason) Add to section on AAPI differences highlighting the features of UIA." taken up [from clown]
20:25:29 <clown> action-1569?
20:25:29 <trackbot> action-1569 -- Jason Kiss to Create a section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2015-03-03 -- OPEN
20:25:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569
20:25:37 <clown> action-1585?
20:25:37 <trackbot> action-1585 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of uia. -- due 2016-01-15 -- OPEN
20:25:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1585
20:25:40 <joanie> JS: There are two actions involved here.
20:25:51 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/issue-540/core-aam/core-aam.html#comparing-accessibility-apis
20:25:59 <joanie> JS: Jason Kiss a long time ago wrote a section to add to the Core mapping spec comparing accessibility APIs.
20:26:05 <joanie> JS: It's at the above link.
20:26:29 <joanie> JS: Cynthia wanted to call out differences that might be important to point out regarding UIA.
20:26:35 <joanie> JS: She provided me with the text.
20:27:22 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0069.html
20:27:27 <joanie> JS: Cynthia's text is at the above URL.
20:28:55 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0119.html
20:29:06 <joanie> JS: I've sent email to Jason (see above URL).
20:29:27 <joanie> JS: I've indicated that I would like to combine his text with Cynthia's.
20:29:51 <clown> action-2008?
20:29:51 <trackbot> action-2008 -- Cynthia Shelly to Handle concept of description property for UIA -- due 2016-02-01 -- OPEN
20:29:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2008
20:30:06 <joanie> JS: His text has an indicated he had questions and opened action-2008 for it.
20:30:22 <joanie> CS: Please change the due date to March 1st.
20:30:47 <joanie> agenda?
20:31:10 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:31:10 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-1593 (Cynthia) Compare implementations of AAPI managed states and look for gaps." taken up [from clown]
20:31:17 <clown> action-1593
20:31:17 <trackbot> action-1593 -- Cynthia Shelly to Compare implementations of AAPI managed states and look for gaps. -- due 2016-01-08 -- OPEN
20:31:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1593
20:31:36 <joanie> CS: I've started it, but need more time. Another week should be good.
20:31:53 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:31:53 <Zakim> agendum 5 was just opened, joanie
20:31:59 <joanie> Zakim, close this item
20:31:59 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
20:32:00 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:32:00 <Zakim> 6. Question:  need mapping entry for default value of aria-current? [from clown]
20:32:00 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:32:01 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Question:  need mapping entry for default value of aria-current?" taken up [from clown]
20:32:16 <joanie> JS: aria-current mappings for undefined.
20:32:18 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCurrent
20:32:23 <joanie> RS: You mean if it's not defined?
20:32:26 <joanie> JS: Yes.
20:32:32 <joanie> JS: The URL above is wrong.
20:32:42 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCurrentUndefined
20:32:55 <joanie> JS: I was going to delete this table (above URL) because everyone was saying "not mapped"
20:33:38 <joanie> JS: The AX API mappings and their test case indicate that they are setting AXAriaCurrent to false.
20:34:02 <joanie> JS: This is what they are doing even when the property is absent.
20:34:08 <joanie> RS: If it's false it doesn't really matter.
20:34:20 <joanie> JS: Agreed. False and not being there are pretty equivalent.
20:34:31 <joanie> JS: I don't recall why UIA wanted it not mapped.
20:35:34 <joanie> CS: ARIA properties is just a string. So if the property is absent from the element, we don't really have any place to put it.
20:36:23 <joanie> CS: And including a default value for every single possible aria property wouldn't make sense.
20:37:42 <joanie> JS: What about ATK?
20:39:34 <joanie> JD: Well, the reason I suggested that during out conversation earlier is that if something had aria-current set and then aria-current became undefined, it is expected that the user agent would clear the state active and emit a notification.
20:40:03 <joanie> JD: That said, this is not a big deal. And if the user agents keep STATE_ACTIVE on accessible objects which are no longer current, it's a bug.
20:40:12 <joanie> JD: In other words, I think this is common sense.
20:40:24 <joanie> RS: So the answer for ATK is "not mapped"
20:40:27 <joanie> JD: Sure, that's fine.
20:40:41 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:40:41 <Zakim> agendum 7. "ACTION-1691: (Joseph/Cynthia) Propose UIA mapping for aria-errormessage." taken up [from clown]
20:40:52 <clown> action-1691
20:40:52 <trackbot> action-1691 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose UIA mapping for aria-errormessage. -- due 2015-12-31 -- OPEN
20:40:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1691
20:41:02 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1691
20:41:07 <joanie> JS: Cynthia supplied the mapping for aria-errormessage earlier today.
20:41:38 <joanie> JS: It's at the above URI (ControllerFor relationship).
20:42:07 <joanie> RS: I'm just wondering if you might want to use describedby and put something else on it to indicate it was an error message.
20:42:21 <joanie> CS: I thought that the target of that would have a role of error.
20:42:42 <joanie> RS: That's rendundant insofar as the ARIA spec is concerned.
20:42:58 <joanie> RS: But at the platform level, you could do something to make it clear it's an error message.
20:43:24 <joanie> CS: ControllerFor you can have multiple targets.
20:43:36 <joanie> CS: We use this for autocomplete too.
20:43:47 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-errormessage
20:43:50 <joanie> CS: It's a general "this thing is part of me, but not necessarily a child".
20:44:08 <joanie> RS: How would you know it's a error message with ControllerFor?
20:44:17 <joanie> CS: I was thinking/hoping we would have an error role.
20:44:27 <joanie> JS: Was that for ARIA or just UIA?
20:44:48 <joanie> CS: (ARIA)
20:45:03 <joanie> CS: I asked for a label role in the past.
20:45:09 <joanie> JS and RS: We ditched that.
20:45:17 <joanie> JS: ATK has a label role.
20:45:32 <joanie> RS: Open an issue for an error role.
20:46:09 <joanie> CS: Having roles for errormessage and labels makes the code more readible and the mapping easier.
20:46:21 <joanie> RS: What if it is pointing to details?
20:46:28 <joanie> CS: I think that's unlikely.
20:46:37 <joanie> CS: And I would put a container around it.
20:47:37 <cyns> ISSUE: Add and error role
20:47:38 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-1010 - Add and error role.  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1010/edit>.
20:48:38 <joanie> CS: I don't think we need a role for extended description.
20:48:42 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-errormessage
20:48:47 <joanie> RS: I'll propose a relationship for extended description.
20:48:52 <clown> issue-1010
20:48:53 <trackbot> issue-1010 -- Add an error role -- open
20:48:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1010
20:49:10 <joanie> CS: If I don't have an equivalent relationship on my platform, I will likely map it to ControllerFor.
20:49:23 <joanie> CS: And adding relations is harder than adding control types.
20:51:48 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:51:48 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Triage: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23" taken up [from clown]
20:52:29 <joanie> action-1625
20:52:29 <trackbot> action-1625 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add interactive property to core mappings that propogates from grid or table to all grid aria grid or table structural elements. the interactive property should have same mapping as defined in issue 633 -- due 2015-09-08 -- OPEN
20:52:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1625
20:52:33 <joanie> JS: This is one of mine.
20:52:54 <joanie> JS: I've been putting it off because I think that this interactive property will not make it into ARIA 1.1.
20:53:06 <joanie> RS: Correct, it didn't make it into ARIA 1.1.
20:53:35 <joanie> RS: Move your action to ARIA 2.
20:53:56 <joanie> JS: Issue 633 was a PF issue and it's now closed.
20:54:27 <joanie> RS: The reason we moved this issue to ARIA 2 is custom widgets, the need for new platform API, etc.
20:54:57 <joanie> JS: Action 1625 is now associated with ARIA 2.
20:55:07 <joanie> RS: (Reads from action)
20:55:35 <joanie> JS: It's unfortunate that Issue 633 is gone because we need to refer to that text in order to address the action.
20:55:45 <joanie> action-1661
20:55:45 <trackbot> action-1661 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose uia express and uia mappings for aria-roledescription. -- due 2015-12-31 -- OPEN
20:55:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1661
20:55:52 <joanie> JS: This is another action for me.
20:56:18 <joanie> JS: This is assigned to me because Cynthia has already provided the mapping for her platform.
20:56:19 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaRoleDescription
20:56:38 <joanie> JS: The URL above is for roledescription.
20:56:46 <joanie> JS: Is the text right for UIA, Cynthia?
20:57:13 <joanie> CS: Yes, that is correct.
20:57:34 <joanie> RESOLUTION: Close action 1661 as complete.
20:57:37 <clown> close action-1661
20:57:37 <trackbot> Closed action-1661.
20:58:16 <joanie> action-1692
20:58:16 <trackbot> action-1692 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-errormessage -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN
20:58:16 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1692
20:58:25 <joanie> JS: Reminder to Joanie to do this.
20:59:01 <joanie> JD: I haven't done this yet.
20:59:18 <joanie> JD: I have an idea of how to solve it and we discussed it last week, I think.
20:59:35 <joanie> JS: It's not in the action, but I think it was to use describedby/descriptionfor.
20:59:39 <joanie> JD: Correct.
21:01:27 <joanie> Zakim, part
21:01:27 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Cynthia_Shelly
21:01:27 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
21:01:35 <joanie> scribeOptions: -final
21:01:40 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop