14:59:24 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:59:24 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-irc 14:59:26 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:59:26 Zakim has joined #tt 14:59:28 Zakim, this will be TTML 14:59:28 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 14:59:29 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:59:29 Date: 21 January 2016 15:00:21 Present: andreas, glenn, nigel 15:00:24 chair: nigel 15:00:27 scribe: nigel 15:00:36 Regrets: frans, pierre 15:03:20 Topic: This meeting 15:04:24 nigel: Runs through agenda. Anything specific to discuss including AOB? 15:04:48 atai: I'd like to raise the use of VTTCue in relation to HTMLCue. 15:05:17 nigel: We may be somewhat light today but will make progress where we can. 15:05:25 Topic: Action Items 15:05:42 action-453? 15:05:42 action-453 -- Thierry Michel to Schedule between tmichel and philippe the transition to cr3 with any director call as needed. -- due 2016-01-21 -- OPEN 15:05:42 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/453 15:05:59 nigel: As far as I'm aware there's been no progress here - we're waiting on plh and tmichel. 15:06:17 action-383? 15:06:17 action-383 -- Glenn Adams to Missing XML declaration -- due 2015-04-30 -- OPEN 15:06:17 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/383 15:06:45 glenn: I've done this. I'll add a note re the resolution. 15:09:00 nigel: I see it's for TTML 1.0. 15:09:13 glenn: I've fixed for TTML2, and will fix for TTML 1 and move to pending review later. 15:09:43 ... It was hard to work out what was going on. It turns out there was a Byte Order Mark before the XML declaration. 15:09:54 ... I've got that fixed. None of the other files have that in. I don't know how it appeared. 15:10:29 action-441? 15:10:29 action-441 -- Andreas Tai to Kick off the analysis work on the vttcue carrying html idea. -- due 2015-11-05 -- OPEN 15:10:29 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441 15:11:00 atai: Last week we mentioned HTMLCue again and some members said they were interested in pushing this forward. 15:11:23 ... Action-441 is just to proceed with evaluating the use of VTTCue as an alternative existing mechanism. However 15:11:36 ... nigel and glenn mentioned that they would like a dedicated HTMLCue proposal. I think we said that we could 15:12:01 ... do that in parallel. When we started the HTMLCue activity it was difficult to get anyone to take the lead, so we 15:12:22 ... ended up having a short proposal to test the water. If now we have more people interested maybe we could 15:12:27 plh has joined #tt 15:12:31 ... create another action for it to make parallel progress. 15:12:50 glenn: I guess we need a document proposal. There are a couple of documents that I created a while back that 15:13:07 present+ plh 15:13:17 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml1-api/Overview.html 15:13:28 ... have never been published. They were as above. 15:13:31 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml2-api/Overview.html 15:14:09 glenn: Those links were to two documents that I threw together in 2013 for a TTMLCue interface level 1 and 2. 15:14:48 ... I could leverage those documents or use them as a template for a draft HTMLCue. 15:15:40 group: [discussion of who might be able to take this work forward] 15:18:40 ... [concludes that nigel should reach out to david from netflix] 15:18:47 nigel: Okay I'll do that outside the meeting. 15:20:39 Topic: IMSC 15:20:55 nigel: plh, please could update on publication of CR3? 15:21:21 plh: I've been swamped. I understand the status is that the objection is gone, so you guys are waiting on 15:21:30 ... a Director's decision to update the CR? 15:21:32 nigel: Correct. 15:22:02 plh: I will attempt to get that decision today. I'll let tmichel know by email. 15:22:42 nigel: We have approval to publish and no objections. 15:23:51 plh: I need an update on the changes that were done for the new CR. 15:23:57 nigel: I'll ping Pierre. 15:24:33 glenn: I propose that we accept Pierre's new text for CR3 as circulated on 2016-01-19. 15:24:44 https://rawgit.com/w3c/imsc/imsc-cr3/spec/ttml-ww-profiles-rendered.html 15:25:04 nigel: I'm happy with that too. 15:25:35 RESOLUTION: The group approves publication of Pierre's updated IMSC 1 CR3 as circulated on 2016-01-19. 15:26:20 nigel: So you need the updated changes and you can proceed with this Philippe? 15:26:25 plh: That's correct, yes. 15:27:35 plh: I should be able to get approval tomorrow. 15:27:45 nigel: Thanks, I think that's all we can do right now on IMSC CR3 publication. 15:29:27 nigel: Should we perhaps discuss issues, even without Pierre present? 15:29:41 https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/130 15:29:51 glenn: I would like to note a couple of comments. 15:30:12 glenn: 1. I disagree that it is late in the process - we're not late regarding testing until we're ready for PR, and 15:30:22 ... we have at least one CR to publish before then, so I don't consider us late. 15:30:38 ... 2. I think Pierre is speculating that there may be an issue. 15:31:00 ... 3. There's no more risk involved in making this change than accepting the other fixes that I've proposed. 15:31:14 ... We already know that we will have to make a change and Pierre has agreed to that. In my estimation there's 15:31:24 ... no more risk in making this change. 15:32:19 ... Also if there is in fact an implementation that has a problem correctly processing tests with the recommended addition, 15:32:32 ... then that would be an implementation that should not pass, which would be a greater risk. 15:34:01 ... In other words it would be non-compliant for an implementation to fail because a recommended feature is present. 15:34:29 nigel: I think there's also a risk that test result contributors will not re-run the updated tests with their implementations. 15:35:21 glenn: In my opinion there should be no expectation that tests will not change right up until PR. 15:36:01 ... Also we should have tests that only test the things we want them to and, unless we are testing warnings the test content should by policy generate no warnings. 15:37:40 nigel: In terms of issue #132, I think the tests in the dece space are not part of the set that need to be passed to exit CR. 15:38:19 glenn: A couple of tests did not specify a lineHeight which is not recommended in document instances, in the IMSC spec. 15:38:35 glenn: That was issue #133. 15:38:46 https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/133 15:40:05 nigel: So the view right now is to update the tests and as necessary request updated implementation reports. 15:40:41 glenn: I've already volunteered to make some changes to tests. Also I've just gone back and added "bug" label to #132 and #133 since I consider them to be bugs, as the reporter. 15:41:58 nigel: I think some people think the Editor should triage issues, set the status etc. Philippe, is there a consistent W3C approach? 15:42:17 plh: No, it varies across groups depending on the dynamic in the group. I tend to prefer everyone in the group to 15:42:29 ... be empowered to fix things, but I understand not all groups may work well that way. 15:43:58 nigel: Re issue #136, I made a proposal. Any views on that? 15:44:02 glenn: Sounds reasonable to me. 15:44:19 ... I think you're correct that we do need a normative statement that says you cannot specify both profiles in the 15:44:29 ... same document using a ttp:profile element. That would be inconsistent. 15:45:15 nigel: That's interesting - are you suggesting that the example I constructed that includes them both should be 15:45:23 ... prohibited from being conformant? 15:45:50 glenn: If you had a document that declared both profiles then if they landed on an IMSC processor that only supports 15:46:05 ... one profile then most likely it would be rejected. That may be an unintended consequence. 15:47:18 nigel: Of course you're still permitted to omit any ttp:profile elements and be conformant. 15:47:39 glenn: I would suggest a SHOULD recommendation that both profiles should not be included in the same document. 15:48:40 ... It does not have to be a SHALL. 15:48:59 nigel: My only contrived use case is where you want a standard off the shelf 'empty document' that can be used in 15:49:07 ... any circumstance, for example in DASH streaming. 15:49:45 ... I'm not sure how useful that is. An empty document could signal neither profile. 15:50:52 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/ 15:50:52 glenn: I'd have to think about that some more. The intention is clearly not to allow documents to combine both text 15:51:06 glenn: and image content simultaneously. 15:51:15 Topic: TTML 1 and 2 editing 15:51:29 glenn: Can we make a redirect that points from Mercurial to github? 15:51:35 plh: Yes, I can do that. 15:51:57 glenn: Within the repos there is a spec/ directory within which there is an html document. We need a stub file in 15:52:03 ... both of those locations that points to the new location. 15:52:16 plh: I can do that, maybe not today, but please chase me on Monday. 15:52:31 Action: plh Create stub files to redirect from Hg to github for TTML1 and TTML2 15:52:31 Created ACTION-454 - Create stub files to redirect from hg to github for ttml1 and ttml2 [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2016-01-28]. 15:53:02 atai: I also did this for the mapping document - I took a few lines from the IMSC directory and replaced the referenced spec. 15:54:35 nigel: Can I ask about date replacement in TTML2? We used the keywords replacement module in Hg. Have you put in a replacement for github? 15:55:12 glenn: I've done this using git-filters. I've added them under .gitfilters. You also need the config. 15:55:38 nigel: It would be good to update the README in the spec directory. 15:55:45 glenn: Ok I'll do that. 15:56:23 Action: gadams Update TTML2 spec/README to include config for keyword replacement. 15:56:23 Created ACTION-455 - Update ttml2 spec/readme to include config for keyword replacement. [on Glenn Adams - due 2016-01-28]. 15:58:05 Present+ simon_pieters(IRC_only) 16:02:18 nigel: We're out of time so I'll adjourn now. Thanks all. Meet same time again next week, 1 hour. [Adjourns meeting] 16:03:21 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:03:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:04:41 s/Runs through agenda./[Runs through agenda.]/ 16:06:29 s/please could update/please could you update us/ 16:07:44 s/no more risk in making this change/no additional risk in making this change 16:11:37 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:11:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:14:31 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 16:14:36 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:14:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:15:10 glenn, the redirect should be done now 16:15:38 thanks! 16:39:32 atai has left #tt 17:33:16 nigel has joined #tt 17:35:48 nigel_ has joined #tt 18:26:16 Zakim has left #tt 20:18:22 plh has left #tt