14:41:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:41:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/01/20-lvtf-irc
14:41:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:41:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:41:26 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:41:27 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:41:27 <trackbot> Date: 20 January 2016
14:43:38 <allanj> title: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:44:01 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
14:45:07 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
14:45:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/20-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
14:47:09 <allanj> Chair: Andrew and Jim
14:47:29 <allanj> jim+
14:47:33 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
14:47:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/20-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
14:47:53 <allanj> present+
14:47:58 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
14:47:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/20-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
14:49:01 <allanj> agenda+ scribe
14:49:03 <allanj> agenda+ survey User Requirements
14:49:05 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF18Jan2016/
14:49:15 <allanj> zakim, clear agenda
14:49:15 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:49:32 <allanj> agenda+ survey User Requirementshttps://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF18Jan2016/
14:57:12 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:57:12 <Zakim> Present: jim, AWK, Shawn, JohnRochford, Wayne, Laura, allanj
14:57:16 <shawn> present:
14:57:20 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:57:20 <Zakim> Present: (no one)
15:00:01 <shawn> agenda?
15:00:39 <shawn> agenda 1 = survey User Requirementsh https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF18Jan2016/results
15:00:48 <shawn> agenda 1 = survey User Requirements https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF18Jan2016/results
15:05:05 <laura> laura has joined #lvtf
15:07:35 <laura> My pleasure, Shawn.
15:23:26 <shawn> Shawn fixes typos Laura noted in https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF18Jan2016/results
15:25:45 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #lvtf
15:25:59 <shawn> present+
15:26:58 <Srini> Srini has joined #lvtf
15:28:49 <AWK> AWK has joined #lvtf
15:29:35 <shawn> present+ Jim, Andrew, Srini
15:30:09 <JohnRochford> On conference line, got automated message that the access code is invalis. Entered it again, and now on phone, but I don't hear anyone else.
15:30:36 <JohnRochford> I will hang up and try again.
15:30:56 <shawn> s/ On conference line, got automated message that the access code is invalis. Entered it again, and now on phone, but I don't hear anyone else./
15:31:02 <shawn> s/I will hang up and try again./
15:31:41 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #LVTF
15:32:10 <shawn> present+ Laura
15:32:19 <JohnRochford> Am trying to join by phone, not by WebEx
15:33:21 <JohnRochford> Trying WebEx now
15:34:13 <JohnRochford> "Join" button is uninvokable
15:34:48 <Srini> Jim/Andrew, does survey requires me to login using username / password? never got to see for WCAG survey... or am I on a wrong link? I just clicked in Jim's email
15:35:28 <Srini> Okay. let me try. thanks,
15:35:49 <shawn> present+ Wayne
15:36:01 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:36:01 <Zakim> Present: shawn, Jim, Andrew, Srini, Laura, Wayne
15:36:18 <Srini> I'll be sure for next week.
15:36:48 <laura> Scribe: Laura
15:37:22 <allanj> Open item 1
15:37:40 <allanj> Topic: 1. Size of All Elements
15:37:42 <shawn> present+JohnR
15:37:46 <laura> present+ Laura
15:39:16 <laura> Jim: Good comment on ig list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2016JanMar/0081.html
15:39:26 <Srini> +1 to you Andrew. Seperating would be useful.
15:40:09 <jon_avila_> jon_avila_ has joined #lvtf
15:40:20 <AWK> q+
15:40:23 <laura> Jim: Keeping separate makes sense. different responsibilities.
15:41:11 <laura> Shawn: This doc user needs.
15:41:37 <allanj> ack awk
15:41:53 <laura> AWK: We are just focusing on requirement.
15:42:13 <shawn> ... reminder that for this doc, we just focus on user needs. in separate doc we will look at responsibilities of OS, UA, content, etc.
15:42:41 <shawn> present+ JonA
15:42:41 <laura> Jim: any objections for keeping together?
15:42:47 <laura> none
15:43:27 <shawn> [ Shawn has her text cursor bigger from OS setting ]
15:43:52 <shawn> +1 for keeping these user requirements in one point
15:43:55 <laura> Wayne: leave this group together.
15:44:27 <allanj> Topic: 2. Seeing All Interface Elements
15:45:51 <laura> RESOLUTION: Size of All Elements Keep Together
15:46:52 <allanj> +1 to being broad for flexible text area
15:47:26 <laura> Shawn: I fixed the typos.
15:48:50 <laura> AWK: How to determine what users are to see?
15:49:22 <laura> Shawn: overlapping content.
15:49:48 <laura> AWK: Feels like a different problem.
15:50:50 <laura> AWK: may be a tracking issue.
15:51:30 <laura> John: Thinks of it at a recognition issue.
15:51:39 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/images/easychecks/zoom-overlap.png
15:52:36 <laura> Shawn: screenshot is beyond tracking.
15:52:52 <laura> AWK: Not a perfect fit.
15:54:12 <laura> AWK: Likes that it is included in user settings.
15:54:18 <allanj> seems to be a definition issue. Seeing yes you can see it. But is it understandable. Perhaps define seeing as ability to perceive and comprehend
15:54:31 <shawn> content adapat in a non-desctrtive way VS. interface elements are available
15:54:47 <Wayne> q+
15:55:09 <shawn> poor adaptabii;lity
15:55:22 <shawn> ack w
15:55:36 <laura> WK: Maybe change the title of the section to Adaptability
15:55:42 <allanj> s/adaptabii;lity/adaptability
15:56:25 <JohnRochford> Clarification: JohnR (not necessarily JohnA) thinks of it as a recognition issue
15:56:39 <laura> s/WK: Maybe / AWK: Maybe
15:56:39 <jon_avila_> * Can someone post a link to the content we are discussing? Thanks
15:56:58 <laura> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF18Jan2016/results#xseeall
15:57:52 <allanj> s/* Can someone post a link to the content we are discussing? Thanks/
15:57:58 <laura> Shawn: user need is that they can see everything.
15:58:21 <shawn> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#seeing-all-interface-elements
15:58:24 <laura> Shawn: happy to think about it more
15:58:36 <jon_avila_> * thanks
15:58:58 <laura> Wayne: Have to be careful of using the word “Zoom”
15:59:12 <jon_avila_> +1
15:59:20 <laura> Wayne:  Enlarging text is something else.
15:59:28 <JohnRochford> +1
16:00:10 <shawn> action: Shawn think about 3.7.1 Seeing All Interface Elements with Andrew and others input from 20 Jan telecon
16:00:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Think about 3.7.1 seeing all interface elements with andrew and others input from 20 jan telecon [on Shawn Henry - due 2016-01-27].
16:00:21 <laura> Wayne: People are very confused about it.
16:00:50 <laura> Jim: Maybe we should define terms.
16:01:03 <allanj> action: jim to create list of other definitions we might need/use
16:01:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-26 - Create list of other definitions we might need/use [on Jim Allan - due 2016-01-27].
16:01:32 <shawn> ACTION: Shawn think about explaining zoom verses increase text (e-mail thread)
16:01:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-27 - Think about explaining zoom verses increase text (e-mail thread) [on Shawn Henry - due 2016-01-27].
16:01:56 <allanj> Topic: 3. Proportional text increase
16:02:10 <shawn> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#proportional-text-increase
16:02:19 <laura> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF18Jan2016/results#xproprtnl
16:03:29 <shawn> [ I also have examples of this at http://www.tader.info/element-level.html :-]
16:03:49 <laura> Jim: I thought of it as a combination.
16:04:17 <laura> …everything should zoom the way it needs too.
16:04:48 <laura> Wayne: I think we need to call that out.
16:06:15 <Wayne> q+
16:06:36 <laura> Shawn: Would some users not want to increase proportionately?
16:07:00 <Wayne> q+
16:07:16 <laura> John: A better example would be 4 times the size.
16:07:57 <JohnRochford> Laura, I suggest you use JohnR and JohnA.
16:08:31 <JohnRochford> Sorry, just noticed spelling difference
16:08:49 <laura> AWK: can achieve with personal perference
16:09:09 <laura> Shawn: Don’t think we need this separate point.
16:09:11 <shawn> ack w
16:10:14 <shawn> +1 to not needing 3.5.2 Proportional text increase because the user need is adequately covered by 3.5.1 Element-level customization and Zoom would provide proportional zoom. and Text size lets the user text an overall text size.
16:10:20 <laura> Wayne: not just headings need adjustments. Spacings zoom.
16:10:46 <shawn> action: Shawn think about spacing resizing, e.g., ems for spacing
16:10:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-28 - Think about spacing resizing, e.g., ems for spacing [on Shawn Henry - due 2016-01-27].
16:11:30 <laura> Wayne: okay to combine 3.5.2 and 3.5.1
16:12:07 <laura> No other comments
16:13:05 <laura> RESOLUTION: 352 is adequately covered. Don’t need separate point.
16:13:13 <allanj> topic: 4. Margins and Borders
16:13:28 <shawn> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#margins-and-borders
16:13:29 <laura> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF18Jan2016/results#xmrgnbrdr
16:14:10 <allanj> +1 keep together
16:14:15 <laura> Jim: Keeping together makes sense.
16:14:44 <laura> JonA: seems separate.
16:15:25 <laura> Shawn reads test.
16:15:33 <AWK> q+
16:16:09 <shawn> ack a
16:16:12 <Wayne> q+
16:16:15 <allanj> s/reads test/reads text
16:16:58 <laura> AWK: Did you move these around?
16:17:08 <laura> Shawn: yes.
16:17:28 <laura> AWK: Hard to split them out.
16:17:58 <laura> Shawn: good point.
16:19:05 <allanj> awk: sees margins and borders as element identification, rather than spacing for reading.
16:19:21 <laura> JonA: separate one block of text from another. Usability issue.
16:19:40 <laura> Shawn: overlap
16:20:03 <laura> Shawn: more of a readability issue.
16:21:20 <laura> AWK: Should these 2 things be combined?
16:21:25 <allanj> q+
16:21:30 <laura> …As long as the 2 things exist we should be okay.
16:21:42 <shawn> ack wayne
16:21:57 <laura> Wayne: does fall under element level.
16:22:38 <laura> …2 people may want to call things out in different ways.
16:22:40 <shawn> q+
16:23:42 <allanj> ack j
16:23:48 <allanj> ack allanj
16:23:53 <laura> Jim: 3.4 is a result of 3.5
16:23:56 <allanj> ack shawn
16:25:09 <Wayne> q+
16:25:13 <laura> Shawn: Question in an ideal world should ewe be able to say to 3em around all blocks of text?
16:25:44 <laura> JonA: thinks it falls under both.
16:25:57 <shawn> q+ say that's the issue - readability VS identifying elements
16:25:58 <allanj> 3.4 could have easier user interface, where 3.5.1 could be editing css. ease of use issue.
16:26:04 <shawn> q+ to say that's the issue - readability VS identifying elements
16:26:20 <shawn> ack w
16:27:04 <laura> Wayne: Problem today, we can’t write the AT.
16:27:48 <laura> …Wayne: target is to hare to hit.
16:28:10 <shawn> [ Wayne : took me 2 weeks to get a gmail style sheet ]
16:28:12 <shawn> ack shawn
16:28:12 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say that's the issue - readability VS identifying elements
16:28:19 <allanj> s/to hare/to hard
16:28:30 <laura> Shawn: 2 different issues.
16:29:29 <allanj> readability vs identifying elements, could be both
16:30:21 <shawn> action: Shawn 3.4.5 Margins and Borders - clarify readability issue (John's point in 20 Jan telecon)
16:30:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-29 - 3.4.5 margins and borders - clarify readability issue (john's point in 20 jan telecon) [on Shawn Henry - due 2016-01-27].
16:31:29 <laura> AWK: adjust the language and leave in the same place.
16:31:57 <shawn> +1 for leaving it as a separate point in readbility section (and leaving it as subpoint in identifying elements) and making more clear how it relates to readability
16:32:15 <laura> Jim: belongs in both places.
16:33:27 <laura> Jim: More questions in the survey.
16:33:37 <laura> …will bring to the list.
16:34:01 <laura> Shawn: maybe leave the survey open.
16:34:31 <laura> Jim: Okay. Thant works.
16:34:56 <shawn> thanks, all -- good discussion!!!
16:35:11 <laura> rrsagent, make minutes
16:35:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/20-lvtf-minutes.html laura
16:35:17 <Wayne> Wayne has left #lvtf
18:01:49 <allanj> allanj has joined #lvtf