17:26:59 RRSAgent has joined #aria 17:26:59 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-irc 17:27:01 RRSAgent, make logs world 17:27:01 Zakim has joined #aria 17:27:03 Zakim, this will be 17:27:03 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 17:27:04 Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference 17:27:04 Date: 14 January 2016 17:31:07 fesch has joined #aria 17:31:08 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0035.html 17:31:24 RRSAgent, make log public 17:31:24 present+ fesch 17:31:25 jongund has joined #aria 17:31:33 present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger 17:33:02 present+ Joanmarie_Diggs 17:33:46 jamesn has joined #aria 17:34:57 clown has joined #aria 17:37:24 if we learn otherwise, we´ll have to stop that practice too 17:37:40 JF has joined #aria 17:37:41 scribe: jamesn 17:37:54 agenda? 17:38:05 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0035.html 17:38:37 Topic: Group-Wide Process for Consensus on Resolutions 17:39:07 RS: we reached consensus on feed role at TPAC 17:39:20 about a month later someone came in and said they had issues with it 17:39:41 how do we make sure people are aware of resolutions so they can weigh in on them 17:39:57 feed wasn't that big of an issue but I think we need a process 17:39:59 present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer 17:40:03 is the resolution process enough 17:40:10 present+ JF 17:40:26 should we take resolutions and put them up for a call for consensus 17:40:39 can't give a month as that is a long time 17:40:56 MC was looking at how we can extract resolutions from minutes 17:41:05 mck has joined #aria 17:41:09 Q+ 17:41:11 MC: requested enhancements to tracker for this 17:41:29 MC: but probably in a bucket which won't get anything done for a while 17:41:35 would need to look at other ways 17:41:44 maybe will get a tracker feature some day 17:41:45 q? 17:42:33 JF: if we pass a resolution on a call suspect it is in the minutes.... if there are resolutions in a call, perhaps the scribe who sends out the minutes that there are resolutions in the minutes 17:42:43 RS: sounds like an option 17:43:16 MC: APA discussions were that the chair needed to do it 17:43:29 JS: CFC needs to go to the admin list not the public list 17:43:48 scribe: matt_king 17:44:14 rrsagent, make minutes 17:44:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html MichaelC 17:44:18 RS: does that mean we have to author a formal CFC? 17:44:31 JS: We do not want public weighing on CFCs 17:44:38 cyns has joined #aria 17:44:57 JS: Chair would need to pull the resolutions out of the minutes and post them 17:45:20 RS: how long do we give? 17:45:31 JS: decision policy says 1 week for cfc 17:45:31 chair: Rich 17:46:41 RS: Usually people with an objection are the ones who didn't attend 17:46:50 present+ MichaelC, Michiel, JamesN, Bryan, Janina, Matt 17:46:53 RS: How do we resolve that? 17:46:59 JS: read minutes 17:47:10 RS: Could take a very long time to resolve 17:48:04 MC: W3C is moving to teleconferences for decisions/discussion 17:48:16 MC: We have right to request use of a telecon 17:48:38 MB: Not sure traveling is always a valid excuse not to attend 17:48:57 MB: Difficult with CFC is that is hard to find time to read all the specs that come through. 17:49:09 MC: Most cfcs are very gramular. 17:49:22 MC: sometimes they are larger, e.g., pub a doc 17:49:25 s/gramular/granular/ 17:49:38 Joseph: sometimes multiple resolutions per call 17:49:49 separate cfc for each one? 17:50:08 JS: easy to do if we had a bot but may too much for a manual process 17:50:41 Joseph: often the resolution precedes the edits to the doc 17:51:01 RS: Can the cfc refer to the minutes 17:51:16 MC: Sometime pushback from people about having to read minutes 17:51:36 JS: If minutes are not clear, probably better to capture that early. 17:51:47 rs: they should have to read the minutes 17:52:05 js: if minutes are not clear, then it is something the group will stumble on 17:52:31 rs: what if I write up the cfc and get 2nd set of eyes on it? 17:52:41 jmc: can do that 17:53:00 js: not sure you have to write it up, just paste in that part of minutes 17:53:07 +1 17:54:48 jnurthen has joined #aria 17:57:07 rrsagent, make minutes 17:57:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html jnurthen 17:58:22 MK: can we use the public objection process for late-raised objections? 17:58:30 s/scribe: matt_king/scribe: mck/ 17:58:49 JS: This approach may be worth considering 17:58:59 rrsagent, make minutes 17:58:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html jnurthen 17:59:28 js: explained the issue process 18:00:46 q+ 18:00:54 jamesn has joined #aria 18:01:11 js: what I like about the admin list approach and posting resolutions for cfc, is it gives a way to serve people who are not in a postion to participate in calls, perhaps b/c tz 18:01:42 js: it gives something defined, written, and creates a good trail. 18:01:53 ack me 18:02:35 q? 18:03:21 RS: Cynthia, if you can't make a call, and group makes a resolution on a decision, would appropriate thing be to post these decisions to the admin list? 18:04:08 cs: I like the approach where each cfc is in a separate e-mail, but a weekly mail with all the resolutions would be acceptable. 18:04:22 q? 18:04:45 MichielBijl has joined #aria 18:04:52 ack me 18:04:59 js: if the bots can do it, then they could be individual e-mails. 18:05:17 mc: discussion in apa, concern about people having to read the minutes. 18:05:40 but, I think reading min if you can not attend call, is important. 18:05:57 if you can't do at least that, then perhaps not a member in good standing. 18:06:13 rrsagent, make minutes 18:06:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html MichaelC 18:06:21 rs: so put out in a resoutions in a cfc to admin list, the cfcs can refer back to the minutes. 18:06:42 rs: and there is a 1 week review period for each cfc. 18:06:57 rs: can we get that decision policy out for another review. 18:07:16 js: Michael, can we get that uri? 18:07:21 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy 18:07:39 mc: may need some modest updates based on this discussion. 18:08:02 rs: will need to vote on decision policy, Michael, do you need time to update the policy? 18:08:49 mc: there is at least one sentence that needs to be reworded; not sure there is more than that. 18:09:19 rs: can we have something to vote on in the next week? 18:09:23 mc: yes 18:11:42 +1 to Michael, and further I think Michiel's draft resolution works for me 18:12:34 rrsagent, make minutes 18:12:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html mck 18:13:25 Joseph: if we have a draft spec text related to a resolution, make sure the resolution includes the link. 18:15:01 rrsagent, make minutes 18:15:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html jamesn 18:16:53 RESOLUTION: The group resolved that we will post the resolutions for each individual meeting to the aria admin list with a brief summary and a link to the minutes of the meeting. Members have a week to respond to CfC's as per the decision policy. 18:17:52 RS: the decision policy draft will be available for review on the admin list prior to the next meting. 18:18:59 cyns has joined #aria 18:19:31 TOPIC: Scoping ARIA 1.1 18:19:40 rrsagent, make minutes 18:19:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html MichaelC 18:20:18 rs: I will write an approach to managing scope and hsare with the group. 18:20:43 rs: There are some issues that we know aria 1.1 must address b/c how long it will be until aria 2.0. 18:21:39 TOPIC: Issues and action review 18:21:47 q+ to ask about tracker vs github issues 18:22:05 action-2004? 18:22:05 action-2004? 18:22:05 action-2004 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Create proposal for password role -- due 2016-01-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW 18:22:05 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2004 18:22:05 action-2004 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Create proposal for password role -- due 2016-01-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW 18:22:07 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2004 18:22:35 TOPIC: password role proposal 18:22:38 https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/password-role/aria/aria.html#password 18:22:48 https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2004 18:22:51 Related GitHub issue: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/166 18:23:27 +1 18:24:18 Q+ 18:24:48 rs: rich liked something joanie wrote ... 18:24:54 q? 18:25:23 q+ to ask when would an author not obscure the text? 18:26:28 mk: do we need to say a "type of" 18:26:42 ack cyns 18:26:42 cyns, you wanted to ask about tracker vs github issues 18:26:55 joanie: i could take an action to clean up that kind of language in the spec 18:26:58 q+ to say amazon lets show your password, I like that option 18:27:08 ack JF 18:27:57 jf: concerned about the wording that suggests a sscreen reader that may be silent when entering a pw 18:28:17 joanie: not saying a screen reader should be silent 18:28:41 jf: I was not reading as normative 18:28:58 is that a useful option, or should it say something different 18:29:19 bg: typically sr says something like * or bullet 18:29:36 jf: not saying we should specify what to do 18:30:52 q? 18:30:56 mk: not sure we say anything about sr behavior 18:31:41 joanie: it is important that the authors make sure there are actual chars that line up with what's behind 18:32:12 joanie: tyring to say that an sr should be able to do what it does in a native pw field 18:32:24 jf: agree 18:32:36 rs: can't specify sr behavior 18:32:57 but people want an idea of what behavior the role enables for AT 18:33:47 jf: Do not have issue with what is happening ... maybe we should say that sr shold mimic what they do in a native pw field 18:34:21 q? 18:34:25 joanie: I will submit to some new text for review 18:34:27 ack clown 18:34:27 clown, you wanted to ask when would an author not obscure the text? 18:34:28 ack me 18:34:28 fesch, you wanted to say amazon lets show your password, I like that option 18:35:00 joseph: i am objecting to the author should ... it should be an author must that authors reveal 18:35:33 Joanie: iw will address that 18:36:14 +1 to thanking Joannie 18:36:27 MichielBijl has joined #aria 18:36:30 TOPIC: Review overdue actions 18:36:33 action-1380 18:36:33 action-1380 -- Léonie Watson to #presentation should mention aria-hidden vs presentation role on raster and vector images in relation to ACTION-1379 -- due 2015-09-25 -- OPEN 18:36:33 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1380 18:36:40 action-1380? 18:36:40 action-1380 -- Léonie Watson to #presentation should mention aria-hidden vs presentation role on raster and vector images in relation to ACTION-1379 -- due 2015-09-25 -- OPEN 18:36:40 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1380 18:36:49 janina has joined #aria 18:37:48 For role="presentation" and aria-hidden="true" that states that if the host language treats the element as having no owned children in the DOM that it is treated as a single entity such as 18:38:11 rs: Joanie can you take it up now? 18:38:28 MichielBijl has joined #aria 18:38:35 Joanie: No; this is not ready for me .... I do not yet know what to make it say. 18:39:02
a whole bunch of other children
18:39:16 that div becomes a single accessible object in the tree. 18:39:29 MichielBijl has joined #aria 18:40:36 rs: have a table with role presentation and aria-hidden true ... what should happen? 18:41:00 MichielBijl has joined #aria 18:41:03 Fred: what happened if a child in the table was a link? 18:41:19 joanie: you can't have a focusable element that is not exposed 18:42:11 MichielBijl has joined #aria 18:43:14 rs: this has to do with svg and iframe stuff 18:43:28 https://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-aria-minutes.html 18:43:42 MichielBijl has joined #aria 18:44:14 Joanie: Rich, if you are the one who understands this, can you write the sentence? 18:44:43 MichielBijl has joined #aria 18:45:44 MichielBijl has joined #aria 18:45:53 joseph: this wording is meant for the presentation role definition 18:46:19 mk: this needs to be in agreement with 5.1.1 and 5.1.2 in AAM 18:46:22 action-1465? 18:46:22 action-1465 -- Shane McCarron to Or shane to fix default values in 1.1 respec -- due 2014-06-30 -- OPEN 18:46:22 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1465 18:46:45 MichielBijl has joined #aria 18:47:18 RS: Is the styling of default values currently addressed in the spec? 18:47:29 https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/password-role/aria/aria.html#checkbox 18:47:29 joseph: not bolded now 18:47:44 rs: editorial issue; need to assign to you Joanie. 18:47:46 MichielBijl has joined #aria 18:48:28 Joanie: this may be a duplicate action 18:49:18 action-1567 18:49:18 action-1567 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Fix inconsistencies in linking to glossary items -- due 2015-11-19 -- OPEN 18:49:18 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1567 18:49:26 Joanie, look at action 1567 18:49:33 action-1567? 18:49:33 action-1567 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Fix inconsistencies in linking to glossary items -- due 2015-11-19 -- OPEN 18:49:33 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1567 18:49:54 MichielBijl has joined #aria 18:50:03 Joanie changing title of 1567 and making 1465 a duplicate 18:51:03 action-1567 18:51:03 action-1567 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Fix inconsistencies in linking to glossary items -- due 2015-11-19 -- OPEN 18:51:03 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1567 18:51:29 rrsagent, make minutes 18:51:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html mck 18:53:00 action-1489? 18:53:00 action-1489 -- Michael Cooper to Propose spec text to limit what aria attributes can be overridden by strong native semantics (e.g., aria-label and aria-labelledby) -- due 2015-11-12 -- OPEN 18:53:00 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1489 18:53:01 action-1489? 18:53:01 action-1489 -- Michael Cooper to Propose spec text to limit what aria attributes can be overridden by strong native semantics (e.g., aria-label and aria-labelledby) -- due 2015-11-12 -- OPEN 18:53:01 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1489 18:53:24 https://www.w3.org/2014/07/21-aria-minutes#item05 18:55:53 Joseph: the question is whether or not aria should awyas win? aria-label perhaps, but what about aria-required, aria-autocomplete, etc. 18:56:20 s/awyas/always/ 18:59:28 rrsagent, make minutes 18:59:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html mck 19:00:33 zakim, bye 19:00:33 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been fesch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, JF, MichaelC, Michiel, JamesN, Bryan, Janina, Matt 19:00:33 Zakim has left #aria 19:00:54 rrsagent, make minutes 19:00:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html mck 19:17:35 RRSAgent, stop