16:53:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
16:53:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-apa-irc
16:53:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:53:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
16:53:18 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
16:53:18 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
16:53:19 <trackbot> Date: 13 January 2016
16:53:44 <janina> agenda?
16:53:54 <janina> zakim, clear agenda
16:53:54 <Zakim> agenda cleared
16:54:00 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
16:54:00 <janina> agenda+ APA Housekeeping http://www.w3.org/2015/10/apa-charter.html
16:54:00 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open
16:54:00 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
16:54:01 <janina> agenda+ Pending CSS Flexbox CR http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-flexbox-1/
16:54:03 <janina> agenda+ Proposed Final Design for W3C Technical Reports http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jan/0007.html
16:54:06 <janina> agenda+ Draft APA Decision Policy http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/decision-policy
16:54:08 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
16:54:11 <janina> agenda+ next and future meetings http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_273
16:54:14 <janina> agenda+ be done
16:54:46 <janina>  zakim, next item
16:54:46 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
16:59:43 <fesch> fesch has joined #apa
17:00:07 <MichaelC> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jan/0023.html
17:01:48 <LJWatson> present+ LJWatson
17:02:43 <fesch> present+ fesch
17:02:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #apa
17:03:05 <richardschwerdtfeger> Present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:03:19 <janina> present+ janina
17:04:21 <fesch> scribe: fesch
17:06:15 <fesch> what agendum is this?
17:06:20 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
17:07:59 <fesch> js: news items?
17:08:29 <fesch> rs: Samsung US is moving to dpub
17:09:11 <fesch> zakim, next item
17:09:11 <Zakim> agendum 2. "APA Housekeeping http://www.w3.org/2015/10/apa-charter.html" taken up [from janina]
17:09:38 <fesch> js: we have tracker set up anything else?
17:09:53 <joanie> q+ to ask about making tracker readonly
17:10:00 <joanie> q-
17:10:19 <fesch> mc: all is set up, wiki, tracker...  please abandon the the PF tracker
17:10:51 <fesch> mc: we are ready to request PF tracker be shut down
17:11:23 <fesch> js: wiki for logging specs... provides bread crumbs... that may be remaining infrastructure
17:11:39 <fesch> mc: I am putting specs in the wiki as we look at them
17:12:02 <fesch> mc: I haven't copied stuff from the PF wiki to APA wiki, spec reviews are new
17:13:57 <fesch> mc: need to change password...
17:14:41 <JF> JF has joined #apa
17:15:18 <fesch> js: membership - James N (Oracle) lost, he couldn't get approval for another group, Cynthia not yet in... we are thin on browser support (only Yandex)
17:15:48 <fesch> zakim, next item
17:15:48 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
17:16:07 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8
17:16:41 <MichaelC> close action-1763
17:16:41 <trackbot> Closed action-1763.
17:16:55 <JF> present+ JF
17:17:54 <fesch> js: digital publishing will meet with us next week
17:18:28 <LJWatson> Pointer Lock https://w3c.github.io/pointerlock/
17:18:34 <fesch> lw: have question on pointer lock
17:21:25 <MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/
17:21:49 <MichaelC> action-1749: http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/
17:21:50 <trackbot> Notes added to action-1749 Review ui events.
17:21:55 <MichaelC> action-1750: http://www.w3.org/TR/uievents/
17:21:55 <trackbot> Notes added to action-1750 Review ui events.
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17:24:22 <JF> Q+
17:24:24 <fesch> js: I don't see anyone setting up a UI without using ARIA, data changing on the fly, we may want them to make them say that in their spec.  they have a section on security, so maybe we want an accessibility statement
17:25:21 <janina> q?
17:25:25 <janina> ack jf
17:25:33 <MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/tr/webmidi/
17:25:35 <fesch> js: do we want to ask for sections on accessibility?
17:26:22 <fesch> jf: At TPAC we talked about this and we have this as a global need as well
17:26:37 <janina> q?
17:27:24 <fesch> js: I don't want to close this action without some comfort that accessibility is being addressed, maybe we want to point them to authoring guide
17:27:33 <fesch> js: think about a statement for it
17:28:03 <fesch> zakim, next item
17:28:03 <Zakim> agendum 4. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html" taken up [from janina]
17:28:45 <fesch> rs: those are the UI events from HTML is there anything new?
17:29:02 <fesch> js: that is a question, we may be able to close it?
17:29:07 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/gamepad/ Gamepad
17:29:45 <MichaelC> action: Léonie to review Gamepad https://www.w3.org/TR/gamepad/
17:29:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2001 - Review gamepad https://www.w3.org/tr/gamepad/ [on Léonie Watson - due 2016-01-20].
17:31:16 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2-ext-req/ Requirements for WCAG 2.0 Extensions
17:31:59 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ Webmention
17:32:59 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/social-web-protocols/ Social Web Protocols
17:34:12 <MichaelC> action: fesch to review Social Web Protocols https://www.w3.org/TR/social-web-protocols/
17:34:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2002 - Review social web protocols https://www.w3.org/tr/social-web-protocols/ [on Fred Esch - due 2016-01-20].
17:34:44 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/ Data on the Web Best Practices
17:36:06 <fesch> lw: found email requesting us look at presentation API on Nov 6
17:36:22 <LJWatson> Presentation API http://w3c.github.io/presentation-api/
17:40:00 <fesch> jd: interested in topic, next couple of weeks is tough
17:40:28 <MichaelC> action: joanie to review Presentation API https://www.w3.org/TR/presentation-api/ - due 17 Feb
17:40:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2003 - Review presentation api https://www.w3.org/tr/presentation-api/ [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-02-17].
17:41:56 <fesch> zakim, next item
17:41:56 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Pending CSS Flexbox CR http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-flexbox-1/" taken up [from janina]
17:42:41 <fesch> js: rich wrote up a email explaining the concern
17:43:11 <fesch> js: CSS has some good approaches, but haven't documented them
17:43:37 <fesch> js: we may need to ask them to document it... lets remember what was said at TPAC
17:44:12 <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jan/0025.html
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17:44:37 <fesch> rs: flexbox changes the DOM order which is different than visible order.... if the flexbox order is meaningful then tabindex should follow flexbox order
17:45:52 <fesch> rs: young designers want to use it and it causes accessibility problems, creates work, folks with disability get a worse experience and accessibility folks look like meanies,
17:46:23 <fesch> rs: totally preventable ... by having flexbox affect the tab and read order
17:46:30 <janina> TPAC Discussion: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/30-apa-minutes.html
17:46:54 <fesch> rs: we have the same issue in WCAG 1 .... we are repeating history...
17:47:06 <janina> q?
17:47:14 <fesch> rs: similar problem with content injection
17:47:21 <fesch> q+
17:47:48 <fesch> rs: representative of a bigger problem, CSS working group needs to work on interoperability
17:48:10 <fesch> js: agree with you rich
17:48:24 <LJWatson> Q+
17:48:32 <JF> Q+
17:48:57 <janina> ack fe
17:49:09 <fesch> fe: round display and grid layout have the same issue
17:49:29 <janina> ack jw
17:49:30 <JF> Jesse Beach
17:49:32 <JF> ack JF
17:49:38 <janina> ack lj
17:50:07 <fesch> lw: in Sapporo, Jesse (facebook) presented a demo, had discussion, doesn't change DOM and not API something in the middle
17:50:57 <fesch> jn: kind of works, affects keyboard sequence by not AT read order... two sequences are different in Firefox, other browsers may have wrong order but both orders the same
17:51:05 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
17:51:10 <fesch> lw: in the browser is where stuff needs to happen
17:51:44 <fesch> js:  CSS need to document stuff they haven't yet documented, we may object to spec moving forward...
17:52:07 <LJWatson> ack me
17:52:13 <JF> +1 to Janina's point(s) - fantasai spoke directly to the gaps in documentation
17:52:18 <fesch> rs: happy to work with browser vendors, but CSS has to help and document, history is repeating
17:52:44 <fesch> rs: we don't know what CSS next steps are...
17:53:22 <fesch> js: I promised a response this week, fairly well recorded in minutes at TPAC...
17:53:55 <fesch> js: thought the FF approach could work.... CSS wants to move to PR sometime around May
17:54:19 <janina> q?
17:54:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack
17:54:25 <richardschwerdtfeger>  q?
17:54:27 <fesch> js: need to have gap covered, documented or steps moving forward
17:54:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack me
17:54:49 <LJWatson> s/in Sapporo, Jesse (facebook) presented a demo, had discussion, doesn't change DOM and not API something in the middle/in Sapporo, Jesse (facebook) presented a demo, had discussion about Firefox's attempt to resolve the problem, which doesn't change DOM or API but does something in the middle/
17:55:35 <fesch> js: don't mind stuff moving to CR as long as we can ask for changes in CR...
17:55:44 <fesch> zakim, next item
17:55:44 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Draft APA Decision Policy http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/decision-policy" taken up [from janina]
17:56:38 <JF> agenda?
17:56:48 <fesch> zakim takeup item 6
17:56:57 <fesch> zakim, take up item 6
17:56:57 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Proposed Final Design for W3C Technical Reports http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jan/0007.html" taken up [from janina]
17:57:39 <fesch> js: standard practice vs what WCAG requires
17:57:52 <fesch> js: for links
17:58:28 <fesch> js: WCAG on requires that it be recognized that a link be recognized as a link
17:59:07 <fesch> js: we didn't find anything where WCAG says the foreground and background color changes...
17:59:26 <JF> Q+
17:59:41 <fesch> js: will cast the net wider, this is a major enough issue, that I can write this up for the WAI list
17:59:48 <janina> q?
17:59:50 <fesch> js: comments?
17:59:53 <janina> ack jf
18:00:43 <fesch> jf: One issue - when you have an actionable item, need a color identifier, the underline is not
18:01:15 <fesch> jf: WCAG does not talk about identification of actionable items...
18:01:25 <jnurthen> q+
18:01:45 <fesch> jf: I think actionable items need a contrast ratio
18:02:34 <fesch> js: we need color contrast, do we want the text for a link need a different color?
18:02:37 <MichaelC> q+
18:03:11 <fesch> jf: low vision user needs to be able to see and recognize an actionable element
18:03:34 <janina> q?
18:03:54 <fesch> jn: she has modified the color contrast to 3:1
18:04:47 <fesch> jn: 4.5 allows you to read, 3:1 can be seen, a survey of 1 said he liked the underlined links
18:05:09 <MichaelC> q-
18:05:50 <fesch> jf: I don't think we have enough data to say 4.5 for text and 3:1 for underline is OK
18:06:34 <fesch> jn: there is an WCAG understanding document that says you can use color and other (underline) as a way to show it
18:06:51 <fesch> jf: I disagree
18:07:32 <fesch> jn: sometimes you need to, how else will you differentiate visited vs unvisited links?
18:07:59 <fesch> jn: need the low vision folks to say
18:08:20 <fesch> js: I should take this to a wider list
18:08:54 <fesch> js: the problem happens when you add the third visited (vs unvisited) link
18:09:05 <fesch> jn: folks can change their link color
18:09:31 <fesch> jf:  since this is a W3C style guide, we should eat our own dog food...
18:10:00 <fesch> jn: I think this is a good template that helps people, want to see it adopted....
18:10:27 <fesch> jf: perhaps my objections are to big...
18:11:17 <fesch> js: next week we will have dpub and pointerlock
18:11:29 <fesch> rrsagent, make minutes
18:11:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-apa-minutes.html fesch
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