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15:01:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/01/06-lvtf-irc
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15:08:52 <allanj> agenda?
15:09:02 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
15:09:12 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
15:09:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/06-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
15:09:32 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
15:10:04 <allanj> chair: AndrewK, JimA
15:10:36 <allanj> ​Agenda+ review draft of Light and Contrast Sensitivity
15:10:37 <allanj> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/4
15:10:39 <allanj> Agenda+ review draft of Color Perception
15:10:41 <allanj> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Overview_of_Low_Vision#Color_Perception
15:10:42 <allanj> Agenda+ review draft of Document Overview and Cause and Effects of Low Vision
15:10:44 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Overview_of_Low_Vision#Overview_of_Low_Vision
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15:15:05 <Alan_S> Does anyone have the webex password?
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15:20:55 <shawn> Meeting password: lvtfnow
15:21:10 <allanj> agenda?
15:21:34 <allanj> 	​Agenda+ review draft of Light and Contrast Sensitivity
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15:23:36 <JohnRochford> Info about me = http://profiles.umassmed.edu/profiles/display/132901
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15:24:22 <allanj> Jim+
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15:24:34 <allanj> Wayne+
15:25:34 <Srinivasu> Srini+
15:25:42 <Srinivasu> What's the WebEx password please?
15:27:38 <allanj> meeting password: lvtfnow
15:27:52 <Alan_S> thanks for the password
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15:28:14 <Srinivasu> Thank you
15:30:36 <laura> present+ Laura
15:30:58 <shawn> Present+ Shawn, Alan, Jim, John, Srini, Wayne
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15:31:43 <Wayne> zakim, mute me
15:31:43 <Zakim> sorry, Wayne, I can't do that anymore
15:33:23 <shawn> Present+ Andrew
15:33:27 <allanj> scribe: John
15:33:32 <shawn> Present+ Erich
15:33:44 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:33:44 <Zakim> Present: Laura, Shawn, Alan, Jim, John, Srini, Wayne, Andrew, Erich
15:34:12 <JohnRochford> WebEx shortcut keys = http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/collaboration/CWMS/1_5/User_Guide_Test/User_Guide_Test_chapter_01101.html
15:34:36 <shawn> agenda?
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15:34:59 <jon_avila> what is the WebEx password?
15:35:01 <shawn> agenda+ review draft of Light and Contrast Sensitivity
15:35:05 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
15:35:06 <shawn> agenda?
15:35:42 <allanj> zakim, open item 2
15:35:42 <Zakim> agendum 2. "review draft of Document Overview and Cause and Effects of Low Vision" taken up [from allanj]
15:35:55 <AWK> +AWK
15:36:16 <allanj> Topic: Review of Document Overview
15:36:30 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Overview_of_Low_Vision#Overview_of_Low_Vision
15:37:44 <JohnRochford> Shawn: Be sure to refresh document.
15:39:23 <JohnRochford> Wayne: I have a WHO estimate that's relevant, but it lumps correctable and uncorrectable together.
15:39:36 <shawn> agree with Wayne that WHO includes correctable & not correctable - and more interesting is not correctable
15:40:25 <shawn> s/Be sure to refresh document./Be sure to refresh document. Included general info that is currently in lower sectoins, but I think would be good to bring up higher level.
15:40:29 <JohnRochford> Wayne: I have another stat for U.S. population.
15:41:02 <JohnRochford> Wayne: U.S. population stat should be representative of most countries.
15:41:45 <JohnRochford> Wayne: All should be considered as having low vision.
15:42:23 <JohnRochford> Wayne: WHO says 3 million U.S. population has corrected low vision, 11 million uncorrected.
15:43:28 <JohnRochford> Shawn: I just added a note, so please refresh doc.
15:44:14 <JohnRochford> Shawn & Jim: functional definitions needed for ambient light, etc.
15:44:17 <laura> Research Wiki Page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Research
15:44:35 <shawn> s/ Shawn & Jim: functional definitions needed for ambient light, etc./ /
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15:44:58 <JohnRochford> Jim: Medicare may have a definition. I will check.
15:46:30 <Ryladog> WHO also is a good pleace to get definitions
15:46:36 <JohnRochford> Shawn: Low vision definition is not clear cut. Different people consider it differently. Is the info the right amount or not?
15:47:16 <JohnRochford> AWK: It will be difficult to reach consensus on the definition. I like what you said in the last sentence.
15:47:32 <JohnRochford> AWK: Suggested one wording change.
15:47:50 <JohnRochford> Wayne: I will send editorial suggestions.
15:47:58 <JohnRochford> Shawn: I love editorial suggestions.
15:48:15 <JohnRochford> Shawn: Just changed doc as AWK suggested.
15:48:22 <shawn> agenda?
15:48:38 <allanj> close item 2
15:48:41 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Overview_of_Low_Vision#Color_Perception
15:48:53 <allanj> Open Item 1
15:49:29 <allanj> topic: Review Color Perception
15:49:53 <AWK> in the color section, do we have rights to the images?
15:50:20 <JohnRochford> John: I offer to copy edit for Shawn and Laura's docs.
15:51:15 <JohnRochford> Shawn: We need to post an acknowledgement of the images.
15:51:36 <JohnRochford> AWK: Permission to use the images should be verified and documented.
15:52:12 <JohnRochford> Shawn: Agrees with AWK.
15:52:24 <JohnRochford> Laura: I could create my own images.
15:52:59 <JohnRochford> Shawn: If you made one, perhaps it could take up less space?
15:53:21 <JohnRochford> Shawn: Perhaps they could all be on the same line or stacked.
15:53:52 <JohnRochford> Laura: Okay.
15:54:18 <JohnRochford> Jim: Would be useful to have some numbers of color-perception prevalence.
15:54:42 <JohnRochford> Wayne: Those numbers should be easier to find than others.
15:55:08 <JohnRochford> Jim: Do we want to tease out gender differences or use a general number?
15:55:45 <JohnRochford> Shawn: We may want to include both.
15:56:19 <JohnRochford> Jon: Just because you have a color perception problem means you have low vision.
15:56:39 <JohnRochford> Correction: does not mean
15:57:04 <allanj> http://www.colour-blindness.com/general/prevalence/
15:57:25 <JohnRochford> Wayne: Perhaps we could say "Loss of color perception alone does not mean low vision."
15:58:24 <JohnRochford> Jon: Certain colors can be difficult to perceive by people with low vision.
15:59:00 <JohnRochford> AWK: If you have a color-perception deficit, does that mean a brain interpretation issue, or a physical issue such as low light.
15:59:08 <Srinivasu> +1 few colors doesn't go well. due to gradiant of colors
15:59:12 <JohnRochford> ?
16:00:04 <AWK> q+
16:00:31 <JohnRochford> Shawn: Maybe we should talk about broad considerations rather than have specific definitions.
16:00:40 <allanj> https://nei.nih.gov/health/color_blindness/facts_about - Color blindness can make it difficult to read color-coded information such as bar graphs and pie charts.
16:01:18 <JohnRochford> AWK: Maybe we should let it ride for a bit and see how it progresses.
16:01:41 <Wayne> q+
16:01:49 <JohnRochford> Shawn: It would be the section in the overview to be quite short.
16:02:11 <AWK> ack a
16:02:14 <JohnRochford> Correction: It may be
16:02:14 <AWK> ack w
16:03:08 <JohnRochford> Wayne: It's important to talk about a difference in brightness rather than a difference in color perception.
16:03:34 <Ryladog> Present+ Katie Haritos-Shea
16:03:43 <JohnRochford> Jon: Luminosity is important: brightness rather than color.
16:04:23 <JohnRochford> Wayne (Answering question from Jim): Yes, I too am talking about luminosity.
16:05:36 <JohnRochford> Jim: Welcome Katie.
16:05:39 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:05:39 <Zakim> Present: Laura, Shawn, Alan, Jim, John, Srini, Wayne, Andrew, Erich, jon_avila, AWK, Katie, Haritos-Shea
16:05:51 <JohnRochford> Jim: Any other closing thoughts?
16:06:19 <allanj> luminosity/brightness
16:06:42 <JohnRochford> Wayne: One other thing: You can't get legibility results in background color. It's a readability thing, not a legibility thing.
16:07:48 <JohnRochford> Alan: I have a question about inverse contrast. Any thoughts on describing that?
16:09:02 <JohnRochford> Jon: Inverse contrast has issues such as the contrast may not be improved with an inverse, and images may even look worse.
16:09:15 <shawn>  inverse with black background reduces overall luminosity & glare ... [lots of problems with it] ... platform level so easy
16:09:52 <shawn> s/ inverse with black/ JohnR?: inverse with black
16:10:02 <JohnRochford> Alan: Glare is also a consideration.
16:10:41 <JohnRochford> Wayne: Those aspects, especially the glare issue, was researched pretty well in the '90s.
16:11:03 <JohnRochford> Alan: Polarity may be the issue rather than glare.
16:13:00 <allanj> zakim, close item 1
16:13:00 <Zakim> agendum 1, review draft of Color Perception, closed
16:13:01 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:13:01 <Zakim> 3. review draft of Light and Contrast Sensitivity [from shawn]
16:13:08 <allanj> open next item
16:13:19 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Overview_of_Low_Vision#Light_and_Contrast_Sensitivity
16:13:33 <JohnRochford> Srini, I apologize I could not document your comments. It was briefly very noisy in my office.
16:13:44 <allanj> Topic: review light and contrast sensitivity
16:13:51 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Overview_of_Low_Vision#Light_and_Contrast_Sensitivity
16:14:34 <JohnRochford> AWK: The Wiki version should be considered our current version.
16:15:46 <JohnRochford> Wayne: Shawn's idea that some content should be moved to other places is a good one. I may have to add a case study.
16:15:56 <shawn> [ /me closes GitHub issues with pointer to wiki ]
16:16:28 <shawn> s/GitHub issues/GitHub issue
16:16:51 <JohnRochford> John: Pause as people read document.
16:18:37 <JohnRochford> AWK: Is your talk about contrast ratio related to brightness, discomfort, and readability? If so, perhaps we should bring it up again in that section.
16:19:01 <JohnRochford> Note: That question was directed to Wayne.
16:19:23 <JohnRochford> Wayne: Yes, that would be very good.
16:19:59 <Srinivasu> No problem John. Here are my comments. These days often designers tend to use transparent colors / images as background and in addition to that, they use a bit low contrast colors like gray (though passes contrast requirements) but difficult to read as user.
16:20:25 <shawn> q+ to say explain light & contrast sensitivity in this section; and save user requirements for other section: http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#luminance-and-color
16:20:50 <Srinivasu> My second comment was about underline / some styling for links. I think I agree that we need to ensure those styling / understlines do have enough contrast too. In fact, styling / underline helps users with low vision and cognitive than others.
16:21:09 <JohnRochford> Wayne (to AWK): Yes, I can work in brightness and high contrast and/or legibility.
16:21:18 <shawn> ack me
16:21:18 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say explain light & contrast sensitivity in this section; and save user requirements for other section:
16:21:20 <Zakim> ... http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#luminance-and-color
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16:23:27 <JohnRochford> Shawn: We are looking at these sections in isolation and not considering the big picture. Example: We should focus on functional limitations without solutions.
16:24:11 <JohnRochford> Shawn: Functional limitations should focus on just that: functional limitations.
16:25:57 <JohnRochford> Shawn: Perhaps physical conditions should be accompanied by their functional limitations.
16:27:25 <JohnRochford> Wayne: Generally, determining factor in reduced visual acuity is contrast.
16:28:12 <JohnRochford> Wayne: Contrast and brightness are completely intertwined.
16:29:57 <JohnRochford> Wayne: I will make clear which functional limitations are impacted by contrast and brightness.
16:30:48 <JohnRochford> Jim: I have to go. Would you please wrap up for me?
16:31:03 <allanj> scribe: allanj
16:31:06 <shawn> right - light and contrast sensitivey almost opposite
16:31:19 <JohnRochford> I mean "Jim, I have to go."
16:31:31 <JohnRochford> Bye everyone.
16:31:32 <shawn> s/> Jim: I have to go. Would you please wrap up for me?/ /
16:32:01 <shawn> light & contrast sensitivity not always assocoated with visual acuity?
16:33:06 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
16:33:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/06-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
16:33:24 <laura> bye
16:34:48 <allanj> s/Meeting password: lvtfnow/
16:35:14 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
16:35:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/06-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
16:35:54 <allanj> s/meeting password: lvtfnow/
16:35:57 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
16:35:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/06-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
16:37:40 <allanj> Title: Low Vision Taskforce Teleconference
16:37:43 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
16:37:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/06-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
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