12:48:59 RRSAgent has joined #wot 12:48:59 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/12/16-wot-irc 12:51:41 taki has joined #wot 12:59:13 DanhLePhuoc has joined #wot 12:59:22 present+ DanhLePhuoc 12:59:36 present+ Kaz 13:00:04 so far on webex: Kaz, Danh, Daniel, Joerg, Taki 13:00:30 dape has joined #wot 13:02:03 achille_z has joined #wot 13:02:11 present+ yingying 13:02:37 joerg has joined #wot 13:02:42 so far on webex: Kaz_Ashimura, Danh_Le_Phuoc, Daniel_Peintner, Joerg_Heuer, Kazuaki_Nimura, Michael_Koster, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Taki_Kamiya, Yingying_Chen 13:02:57 present+ Joerg_Heuer 13:03:25 koalie has left #wot 13:03:28 so far on webex: Kaz_Ashimura, Dave_Raggett, Claes_Nilsson, Danh_Le_Phuoc, Daniel_Peintner, Joerg_Heuer, Kazuaki_Nimura, Michael_Koster, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Taki_Kamiya, Yingying_Chen 13:03:31 do we have a volunteer for scribing? 13:04:12 zakim, pick a scribe 13:04:12 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanhLePhuoc 13:05:25 dsr has joined #wot 13:05:52 so far on webex: Kaz_Ashimura, Dave_Raggett, Achille_Zappa, Claes_Nilsson, Danh_Le_Phuoc, Daniel_Peintner, Frank_Reusch, Joerg_Heuer, Kazuaki_Nimura, Michael_Koster, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Taki_Kamiya, Victor_Charpenay, Yingying_Chen 13:05:56 zakim, pick a scribe 13:05:56 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanhLePhuoc 13:06:06 present+ Daniel_Peintner 13:06:09 scribenick: kaz 13:06:14 scribe: Kaz 13:06:16 present+ Dave 13:06:24 agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Dec/0030.html 13:06:41 Claes has joined #wot 13:06:51 regrets: Johannes_Hund 13:07:26 so far on webex: Kaz_Ashimura, Dave_Raggett, Achille_Zappa, Claes_Nilsson, Danh_Le_Phuoc, Daniel_Peintner, Darko_Anicic, Frank_Reusch, Joerg_Heuer, Kazuaki_Nimura, Michael_Koster, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Taki_Kamiya, Victor_Charpenay, Yingying_Chen 13:08:10 joerg: let's start the call for the whole IG and the TF-AP 13:08:43 ... support for the WG items 13:08:47 DarkoAnicic has joined #wot 13:08:52 ... also logistics for the upcoming f2f meeting 13:09:01 ... those are for the IG whole 13:09:23 ... and contribution from Louay on WoT API in WebIDL (TF-AP topic) 13:09:44 ... useful for the plugfest during the f2f in Jan. 13:09:53 Jaime has joined #wot 13:10:14 present+ Jaime_Jimenez 13:10:34 topic: Next steps WG topics 13:10:56 bengo has joined #wot 13:10:58 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Proposals_for_WoT_WG_work_items WG item wiki 13:11:12 joerg: discussion during the f2f meeting in Sapporo 13:11:24 ... got request for extension 13:11:36 ... so extended the deadline till last week 13:11:51 ... covering different items 13:12:08 ... the first is: Linked Data Vocabulary For Describing Data Models 13:12:26 ... significant number of support 13:12:35 ... also there are comments 13:12:45 ... Siemens and Panasonic 13:13:09 ... kind of focus on domain-speciric topics 13:13:15 s/speciric/specific/ 13:13:29 ... also comment from Dave 13:14:04 dsr: agree with the restriction to horizontal metadata. The choice of schema language will impact serialization, especially for resource constrained devices. Serialization formats could be dealt with as a separate work item (see content types). 13:14:53 sebastian: agree should define minimum vocabulary 13:15:02 ... also domain-specific vocabulary 13:15:24 ... minimum set which would fit any industry 13:15:54 ... also a vocabulary for small devices with limited capability 13:16:12 dsr: what about serialization? 13:16:31 sebastian: should stuck with existing serialization formats 13:16:50 ... seems we're close with each other 13:17:10 dsr: one spec for vocabulary and another for serialization 13:17:19 ... should be handle with separate two specs 13:17:38 ... would propose we should have a narrow scope 13:17:48 ... we could extend the scope later 13:18:06 joerg: maybe we can take this as an initial proposal 13:18:19 ... we've got significant number of supporters 13:18:50 ... next steps should be discussed at the upcoming f2f meeting in Jan. 13:19:01 ... we can make conclusion on the description there 13:19:02 q+ 13:19:34 ... supporters could clarify what their expectations are 13:19:54 ... we can share opinions on each topic 13:20:16 dsr: would see objective sentence block for each topic 13:20:28 ... should not be a lot of effort 13:20:35 sam has joined #wot 13:21:00 danh: people consider restricted devices 13:21:11 ... similar to SSN ontology? 13:21:32 ... the comment from Siemens/Panasonic seems correct to me 13:22:17 ... simple open ontology which could fit devices with different capability 13:23:49 ... when you design ontologies, people might think about serialization format 13:24:28 s/restricted/constrained/ 13:24:39 joerg: state to be connected 13:25:10 ... more discussion to authorize should happen during the f2f meeting 13:25:34 ... how to move on this topic within the 6 weeks from now 13:25:38 s/now/now?/ 13:25:41 Some existing text: This will specify a data modelling vocabulary for describing things in terms of events, properties and actions, and links to domain models and protocol specific API descriptions. This work item will include provision for late bound data types, re-use of data type definitions, and labelled opaque data types for data to be handed on to entities that understand it. This vocabulary will be designed to supplement the RDF core datatypes, including enume[CUT] 13:25:41 and numeric ranges. 13:26:06 ... supporters listed here should provide clarifications 13:26:19 q+ 13:26:24 q+ 13:26:24 ... by providing bullet points 13:26:57 q? 13:27:03 ack danh 13:27:05 ack Danh 13:27:28 darko: this sort of discussion could be done on the mailing list 13:27:30 jhund has joined #wot 13:27:34 q? 13:27:36 ... or during a telco 13:27:43 ack DarkoAnicic 13:27:49 ... and we should have discussion during the f2f meeting as well 13:28:02 dsr: idea to discuss on the ml is good 13:28:15 ... discussion on each item 13:28:28 ... issue tracker on GitHub would be good as well 13:28:34 joerg: ok 13:28:46 see early draft on github https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/master/WG/charter.md 13:28:56 ... using GitHub would be convenient 13:29:24 dsr: if the proposers of each topic could manage the issues 13:29:28 ... would be great 13:29:39 arne has joined #wot 13:29:40 ... would be happy to update the document 13:30:12 joerg: would start with bullet points 13:30:37 dsr: we could manage the issues using the GitHub issue tracking mechanism 13:31:01 joerg: each item can be discussed individually 13:31:04 ... we have 9 items 13:31:09 q+ 13:31:21 ack dsr 13:31:27 ack kaz 13:32:09 kaz: so each proposer would create an issue based on their proposal 13:32:21 ... and supporters add their clarifications 13:32:24 joerg: yes 13:32:46 toru has joined #wot 13:33:14 ... we have some more comments 13:33:16 ... sebastian? 13:33:40 present+ Toru_Kawaguchi 13:33:50 sebastian: make sense to have description what has access to the server 13:33:57 ... and interaction model 13:34:22 ... all the scopes are related to each other 13:34:59 dsr: combine items or modular items? 13:35:30 ... two buckets 13:35:51 ... common things or modularizing metadata 13:36:02 s/metadata/horizontal metadata/ 13:36:15 joerg: next one would be content type for serialization 13:36:22 ... metadata is JSON-LD 13:37:10 ... significant number of serialization formats 13:37:19 ... in the objective section here 13:37:30 ... new one or existing one? 13:38:19 dsr: if we use JSON-LD, how to encode to JSON-LD? 13:38:51 ... if we define content types, what kind of mechanism to support various devices? 13:39:18 ... default context and minimum capability 13:39:39 zakim, who is here? 13:39:39 Present: DanhLePhuoc, Kaz, yingying, Joerg_Heuer, Daniel_Peintner, Dave, Jaime_Jimenez, Toru_Kawaguchi 13:39:42 On IRC I see toru, arne, jhund, sam, bengo, Jaime, DarkoAnicic, Claes, dsr, joerg, achille_z, dape, DanhLePhuoc, taki, RRSAgent, Zakim, yingying, kaz, Karen, dfr, tobie, 13:39:42 ... realitygaps, misalias, schuki, thor, jet, ms7821, trackbot 13:40:00 dsr: need to know content type 13:40:36 @@@: what you have to discuss is communication between devices need to know actual data exchange 13:40:42 s/@@@/victor/ 13:41:24 dsr: you're getting the default context 13:41:37 ... maybe would be better to continue on the ML 13:41:58 victor: we're talking about serialization 13:42:30 dsr: need longer discussion... 13:42:35 q? 13:43:06 mike: looking at here is for constrained devices 13:43:32 ... might have fixed codes 13:43:40 ... for interaction 13:43:53 joerg: yeah, we have to revisit scope discussion 13:44:09 ... some comments not clear enough 13:44:37 ... again, the group should prepare your understandings for the GitHub document 13:44:58 ... next: Web of Things scripting API 13:45:22 ... supportive comment 13:45:36 ... don't see points to discuss here 13:45:51 ... please get prepared for your contribution 13:46:05 ... next: Bindings to Common Protocols 13:46:27 jhund: my point was on the wiki 13:46:31 s/was/is/ 13:46:51 Siemens + Panasonic: W3C excels in defining models, payloads and APIs. The actual protocols are mainly driven by the respective consortia and standardization bodies. Therefore, a possible deliverable should be rather a model and a guideline on how to create a protocol binding rather than the binding itself, which might better be provided in the scope of the actual protocol definition. The inputs for this should be drawn from both the APIs and the thing description. 13:47:02 jhund: need abstracted layer 13:47:25 ... we WoT group should show how existing protocols should be integrated 13:47:48 ... the people defining the protocols should think about the best practices 13:47:55 q? 13:48:10 dsr: this is what W3C and IETF work for WebSocket 13:48:17 ... similar model would work for WoT 13:48:41 ... other groups work for XMPP or MQPP 13:48:51 ... W3C need to work with those external groups 13:48:53 q+ 13:49:18 ack jhund 13:49:34 jhund: you mentioned the successful story of WebSocket 13:49:54 ... it is more on the protocol implementers 13:50:11 q+ 13:50:20 ... taking up the WoT stack as the starting point would work 13:50:58 dsr: the key thing is communication metadata should be interoperable 13:51:25 ... you want a minimum set of abstract messaging? 13:51:58 jhund: yeah, we should keep the level abstract here 13:52:06 Louay has joined #wot 13:52:27 dsr: wondering which to do: W3C spec, IETF spec or W3C/IETF joint spec 13:52:50 Let’s not fix this now, and rather leave it to discussions with the respective SDOs 13:53:00 michael has joined #wot 13:53:27 joerg: let's move on: Uniform and Technology Independent Discovery 13:53:34 ... just a few supports 13:53:54 q+ to ask whether it makes sense to merge this with the scripting APIs work item 13:53:57 ... discussion within the discovery group? 13:54:02 ... and outcome here 13:54:24 ... support to consider? 13:54:48 q? 13:54:49 ... louay, soumya? 13:55:34 ... related to protocol mapping? 13:55:40 ... if so, should be combined 13:55:54 louay: related to API for me 13:56:09 ... uniform API to access all the technologies 13:56:31 ... not sure if you've already looked at my proposal on WebIDL 13:56:44 ... unified interface or technology for discovery 13:57:14 joerg: maybe we should take this into smaller group discussion 13:57:29 ... next: WoT Security and Security-Enabling APIs 13:57:30 we had to switch agenda points to progress on the WG topic before F2F, the topic of Louay's contribution is next up on the agenda 13:57:48 q? 13:57:59 ack dsr 13:57:59 dsr, you wanted to ask whether it makes sense to merge this with the scripting APIs work item 13:58:06 dsr: given the strong supports for APIs 13:58:28 ... should be merged? 13:58:50 joerg: similar to how the security group works 13:59:09 ... need to think about what would be the best structure 13:59:30 ... for Authorization for Things Discovery 13:59:49 ... and Things Metadata for Security and Security-Enabling 14:00:01 ... discussion to be done at the f2f 14:00:39 ... let's discuss the next steps for the 9 items on the GitHub 14:00:52 ... using bullet points of description 14:01:01 ... and discussion during the f2f meeting 14:01:13 katsu has joined #wot 14:01:14 ... would volunteers from the active supporters 14:01:16 q? 14:01:44 topic: Next F2Fs logistics (France in January and MIT in April) 14:01:50 joerg: f2f in Nice 14:02:18 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting_2016,_January,_26th_%E2%80%93_28th,_France,_Nice f2f wiki 14:02:44 joerg: the host can't cover all the cost 14:04:17 ... would like to ask you follow the link here to get registered 14:04:32 ... there are two registration forms 14:05:03 ... meeting registration and payment 14:06:07 ... would appreciate Eurecom's help 14:06:09 q+ 14:07:05 ... any comments? 14:07:45 dsr: Soumya is looking after people's interest in the OpenDay on Jan. 25 14:08:15 victor: John Davis's participation? 14:08:22 dsr: suggested to Soumya 14:09:09 victor: preparation for the plugfest? 14:09:40 ... talked with Soumya and the logistics team, but seems we can't have a room on 24th 14:09:59 ... would be helpful if we could use a room for preparation on 24th 14:10:10 dsr: one option is hosting a room within INRIA 14:10:23 ... another possibility is a room at a hotel nearby 14:10:34 ... can ask 14:10:51 ... my concern is people's travel 14:10:54 ... will come on Sunday? 14:11:01 ... INRIA would be closed on Sunday 14:11:12 ... so the choice might be a hotel room 14:11:22 joerg: please check the possibility 14:11:30 ... maybe 8-9 people 14:11:43 ... please do your registration by Christmas 14:12:01 ... and would see the possibility of the preparation meeting 14:12:08 ... further comments? 14:12:10 q? 14:12:12 ack d 14:12:20 (none) 14:12:35 joerg: the next meeting after this will be the one at MIT in Boston 14:13:32 ... hotel booking should be made asap 14:13:58 ... for the April meeting 14:14:25 ... would be quite expensive if in March, April 14:14:38 dsr: need to pin out the date 14:14:44 ... precisely 14:14:57 joerg: would say 12-14 14:15:04 ... without openday 14:15:21 dsr: ideally would have an openday 14:15:41 ... unfortunate if we couldn't have an openday 14:15:56 joerg: openday or plugfest? 14:16:05 dsr: or combine them perhaps? 14:16:43 ... how about having a 4-day meeting? 14:17:02 joerg: would stuck with 3-day 14:17:50 ... unless we get further comments 14:18:17 ... is it ok by people to make reservation now? 14:18:25 tidoust has joined #wot 14:18:29 q+ 14:18:41 ack kaz 14:20:15 q+ to ask for confirmation in respect to location for July face to face 14:20:33 kaz: it's difficult for JP participants to make reservations for April meeting now, because JP fiscal year changes 14:20:34 q+ 14:21:44 ... will ask them for their opinions and let you know about the responses next week 14:21:53 q? 14:21:54 ack dsr 14:21:54 dsr, you wanted to ask for confirmation in respect to location for July face to face 14:23:17 yingying: is the date confirmed? 14:23:57 ... for July meeting 14:24:07 joerg: 12-14 is the proposal 14:24:29 dsr: is CETC in Beijing? 14:24:35 yingying: yes 14:25:05 joerg: great 14:25:53 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_Page#Face_to_Face_Meetings WoT wiki (f2f plan) 14:26:05 joerg: that's it for the whole IG 14:26:22 topic: Louay's contribution, a sketch for a WoT API in WebIDL 14:26:27 jhund: not much time 14:26:50 ... but would acknowledge Louay's contribution 14:27:00 ... would have a longer slot during the next call 14:27:22 ... useful to our plugfest 14:27:49 louay: don't think need to share my screen now 14:27:50 https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/master/TF-AP/thing-api/thing-api-webidl.md 14:28:01 ... already shared the link above 14:28:18 ... discussion in Sapporo 14:28:39 sam has joined #wot 14:28:43 ... how to have unified API for discovery 14:29:01 ... even registration remotely 14:29:17 ... this is an initial idea and need your feedback/contribution 14:29:45 ... maybe missing security/privacy aspects 14:30:16 ... put concrete scripts for each interface description 14:30:29 jhund: thank you very much! 14:30:39 ... would everybody to look at it 14:30:51 ... and have email discussion 14:30:57 ... maybe easier to have GitHub issues 14:31:23 ... ok if people add proposals? 14:31:27 louay: of course 14:31:55 ... we need contributions from different aspects 14:32:06 ... link between APIs and TD, etc. 14:32:21 ... actions, events, etc. 14:32:38 jhund: would raise this topic before the upcoming f2f 14:32:48 joerg: ok 14:33:02 ... please make sure to get registered for the f2f 14:33:25 ... and remind yourself to add clarifications for the WG proposal 14:33:35 [ adjourned ] 14:33:39 taki has left #wot 14:33:40 rrsagent, draft mintues 14:33:40 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft mintues', kaz. Try /msg RRSAgent help 14:33:40 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:33:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/16-wot-minutes.html jhund 14:36:32 rrsagent, make log public 14:36:38 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:36:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/16-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:37:05 Meeting: Web of Things IG + TF-AP 14:37:14 Chair: Joerg 14:38:44 katsu has left #wot 14:38:55 joerg has left #wot 14:48:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:48:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/16-wot-minutes.html kaz 15:00:52 yingying has joined #wot 16:18:34 yingying_ has joined #wot 16:22:23 bengo has joined #wot 16:32:24 kaz has joined #wot 16:50:09 Zakim has left #wot 17:44:17 bengo has joined #wot 17:57:32 bengo has joined #wot 18:35:40 bengo has joined #wot