19:05:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdw
19:05:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/12/16-sdw-irc
19:05:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:05:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sdw
19:05:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
19:05:24 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
19:05:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
19:05:25 <trackbot> Date: 16 December 2015
19:05:30 <phila> zakim, code?
19:05:30 <Zakim> I have been told this is SDW WG Weekly. https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=mc96ab6583bd632deef4bf778ff424d78 Or :+1-617-324-0000, Meeting: 642 235 291
19:47:28 <Kerry> Kerry has joined #sdw
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19:54:34 <eparsons> trackbot, start meeting
19:54:35 <ClausStadler> present+ ClausStadler
19:54:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:54:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
19:54:38 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
19:54:39 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
19:54:39 <trackbot> Date: 16 December 2015
19:54:54 <eparsons> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:55:14 <eparsons> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20151216
19:55:23 <eparsons> Chair: Ed
19:56:50 <Kerry> regrets+ clemens, Frans, Payam, Andreas
19:58:03 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdw
19:59:44 <Linda> Linda has joined #sdw
20:01:02 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
20:01:09 <Kerry> regrets+ Rachel
20:01:19 <eparsons> present + eparsons
20:01:35 <phila> present+ phila
20:01:42 <Linda> present+ Linda
20:01:49 <DanhLePhuoc> DanhLePhuoc has joined #sdw
20:02:33 <phila> present+  Josh, Simon, Clemens, Andrea, Krzysztof, Jon, Payam, Frans
20:02:37 <DanhLePhuoc> present+ DanhLePhuoc
20:03:00 <phila> present-  Josh, Simon, Clemens, Andrea, Krzysztof, Jon, Payam, Frans
20:03:00 <LarsG> LarsG has joined #sdw
20:03:05 <LarsG> present+ LarsG
20:03:07 <phila> regrets+  Josh, Simon, Clemens, Andrea, Krzysztof, Jon, Payam, Frans
20:03:20 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:03:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/16-sdw-minutes.html phila
20:03:52 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:03:58 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:03:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/16-sdw-minutes.html phila
20:04:38 <Kerry> scribe:Kerry
20:04:46 <Kerry> scribenick: Kerry
20:05:02 <BartvanLeeuwen> BartvanLeeuwen has joined #sdw
20:05:04 <eparsons> Topic : Approve last week's minutes
20:05:12 <eparsons> http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-sdw-minutes
20:05:26 <eparsons> Proposed : Approve last week's minutes
20:05:32 <Linda> +1
20:05:34 <jtandy> +1
20:05:38 <phila> +1
20:05:50 <Kerry> resolved: approve last weeks minutes
20:05:54 <LarsG> 0 (missed most of the call)
20:05:56 <Kerry> +1
20:05:56 <eparsons> Resolved : Approve last week's minutes
20:06:00 <phila> RESOLUTION: Approve last week's minutes
20:06:03 <eparsons> Topic : Patent Call
20:06:10 <eparsons> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
20:06:19 <eparsons> Topic : Best Practice - Progress to date
20:06:57 <phila> C Nortgate Parkinson's law I believe
20:07:03 <Kerry> jtandy: BP pub  delayed last week
20:07:04 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sdw
20:07:13 <BartvanLeeuwen> present+ BartvanLeeuwen
20:07:24 <Kerry> ..... still developing -- linda and payam have been busy last week
20:07:25 <MattPerry> present+ MattPerry
20:07:33 <Kerry> .... up to bp 18 is looking good
20:07:41 <Kerry> ..more for jtandy to do after that
20:07:45 <Kerry> ....some respec errors
20:07:59 <phila> -> http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/ Editors' Draft of the BP doc
20:07:59 <Kerry> ... on 6th jan will be spiffing [sic]
20:08:47 <Kerry> Linda: Payam and I have covered first half, looking pretty good to there, some styling to go
20:09:07 <Kerry> jtandy: some outstanding points
20:09:10 <Kerry> .... BP 9
20:09:23 <jtandy> http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/#relative-position
20:09:44 <eparsons> q?
20:09:58 <Kerry> ...  relative positioning/ linear referencing we picked this up along the way
20:10:23 <Kerry> ... refers to topo network eg directions along a street from a reference point like a junction
20:10:46 <Kerry> ....can be done in GML, is an edge case, not really common practice
20:10:53 <phila> q+ to say we need to talk to AR people about this
20:11:07 <eparsons> ack next
20:11:08 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to say we need to talk to AR people about this
20:11:08 <Kerry> ... want to know how important this BP is ---- or is it geofluff [sic]
20:11:12 <jtandy> "geo-fluff"
20:11:47 <Kerry> phila: AR people need this, eg Christine Perey, we should check with her
20:11:56 <billroberts> billroberts has joined #sdw
20:12:01 <jtandy> ACTION: jtandy to talk to Christine Perey about the need for relative positioning
20:12:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-128 - Talk to christine perey about the need for relative positioning [on Jeremy Tandy - due 2015-12-23].
20:12:51 <Kerry> ed: is this broader than just linear referencing -- common in engineering, but is it also a case of these other spatail relationships?
20:13:03 <Kerry> s.spatail/spatial/
20:13:12 <Kerry> s/spatail/spatial/
20:13:18 <billroberts> present+ billroberts
20:13:22 <billroberts> sorry I'm late!
20:13:41 <Kerry> jtandy: yes, but looking for advice on this, e.g. ed's upstairs under the bed use case
20:13:59 <eparsons> Action : Ed to add more spatial relationship things
20:13:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-129 - Add more spatial relationship things [on Ed Parsons - due 2015-12-23].
20:14:06 <Kerry> ..... ed can you write some paragraphs for the proforma that would motivate this?
20:14:39 <Kerry> Ed: yes.  might get a bit fuzzy but is important
20:15:23 <Kerry> jtandy: rachel also talked about chainage [sic] along a geospatial survey... relative positioning between the points
20:15:58 <Kerry> ... Linda awaiting actions from andrea and Josh ACTION-126 and ACTION-127 re merging data formats
20:16:11 <Kerry> ... but not present at meeting
20:16:35 <Kerry> Ed: missed last call -- one table or 2?
20:17:24 <Kerry> jtandy.... We liked the subjective stuff in Ed's table but also Clemens formal/factual style and we want that.
20:18:03 <Kerry> ....not yet pinned down how to fit this in, but we want to capture both in one place to start with... will come back later
20:18:26 <Kerry> ed: if you are really ruched you should skim through that for a lot of information
20:18:38 <Kerry> s/ruched/rushed/
20:18:59 <Kerry> jtandy: still a bit ambiguouls how this will be presented
20:19:17 <Kerry> .... BP 3 and BP5 are flagges as requiring extra content
20:19:21 <jtandy> BP-3 http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/#lacking-ids
20:19:21 <eparsons> q?
20:19:27 <Kerry> s/flagges/flagged/
20:20:09 <phila> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-dwbp-20151217/#identifiersWithinDatasets What DWBP says on that topic
20:20:15 <jtandy> BP-5 http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/#ids-for-chuncks
20:20:21 <Kerry> .... loads of identifiers in a CSV table... where is good practice for converting local identifiers to http uris? we need to find this.
20:20:46 <Kerry> ... also BP 5 fragment identifiers
20:21:21 <Kerry> ....(problem with typo in chunks discussed with jtandy, linda, phila)
20:21:31 <phila> q+ to talk about possible navigation
20:21:42 <eparsons> ack next
20:21:44 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about possible navigation
20:21:56 <Kerry> ACTION: Linda to change fragment identifier for chunks in BP doc
20:21:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-130 - Change fragment identifier for chunks in bp doc [on Linda van den Brink - due 2015-12-23].
20:22:28 <Kerry> jtandy: we don't know what to add in here -- we need more
20:22:56 <Kerry> phila: you are missing extra navigation on top of the list (DWBP maybe has too much)
20:23:03 <phila> http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-dwbp-20151217/#challenges
20:23:12 <phila> http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-dwbp-20151217/#bp-benefits
20:23:59 <Kerry> .... DWBP uses SVG diagram to group them, also grouped by benefits (also generated), but respec duplicated the lists
20:24:26 <Kerry> .... which or both of these is useful for SDW bp?
20:24:53 <Kerry> jtandy: agreed, but is is mandatory for fpwd?
20:25:13 <Kerry> phila: no
20:25:28 <Kerry> ed: agrees useful but ths should come later -- too hard now
20:25:51 <Kerry> jtandy: lets try -- phila agrees to do the scripting
20:26:16 <Kerry> ed: how many BPs do we have real BP examples to point to?
20:26:31 <Kerry> jtandy: http identifiers: nanaimo
20:26:43 <Kerry> ... reuse -- anything that uses geonames
20:27:08 <Kerry> .... identifiers -- from sdi used in a web environemnt -- this must exist
20:27:32 <Kerry> ed: before FPWD we need at least some of these filled in
20:27:55 <Kerry> .... need to show that we stand behind waht we say
20:28:11 <Kerry> ...want to give people homewoerk to find these things
20:28:27 <Kerry> jtandy: we had planned to wait for after FPWD
20:28:34 <Linda> q+
20:28:48 <Kerry> ed: how about doc actually stating this intention then -- if not actually doing it?
20:28:50 <eparsons> ack next
20:29:38 <Kerry> linda: in intor or scope there is a statement like this -- all being founded on real live practice -- could add intent to put examples in but every bp has an example section to show it is expected
20:29:49 <Kerry> ed: ok that sounds ok
20:30:02 <Kerry> jtandy: questions?
20:30:32 <Kerry> ed: hope the BP editors still get a holiday!
20:30:56 <jtandy> scribe: Jeremy Tandy
20:31:02 <jtandy> scribenick: jtandy
20:31:02 <eparsons> Topic : SSN - Tasks definition SSN Tasks
20:31:13 <jtandy> topic: SSN and the definition of tasks
20:31:33 <jtandy> Kerry: we have 3 SSN editors on the call
20:31:34 <Kerry> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/SSN_Tasks
20:31:58 <jtandy> ... list of tasks is not necessarily final
20:32:02 <jtandy> ... first on the list
20:32:11 <eparsons> rrsagent, draft minutes
20:32:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/16-sdw-minutes.html eparsons
20:32:20 <jtandy> ... BTW: this is early warning of where we want people to help
20:32:36 <jtandy> Kerry: so first - modularisation of the SSN ontology
20:33:07 <jtandy> ... Krystof (spelling?) is taking this forward; using a pattern based approach
20:33:34 <jtandy> Kerry: [missed no. 2]
20:34:02 <eparsons> q?
20:34:12 <jtandy> Kerry: [other topics] need to determine the scope of SSN - base on requirements
20:34:24 <jtandy> ... align SSN with PROV-O
20:34:32 <jtandy> ... align with RDF Data Cube
20:34:47 <jtandy> ... need to work out how SSN can work with satellite data
20:34:56 <jtandy> ... will revisit the multilingual annotation
20:35:15 <jtandy> ... look at the 'actuation' concerns - although handed off to WoT folks
20:36:05 <phila> q+
20:36:06 <jtandy> Kerry: shall we develop targeted 'profiles' of SSN for different purposes
20:36:14 <eparsons> ack next
20:36:15 <jtandy> ... not quite sure how to document that
20:36:48 <jtandy> phila: we don't have a standard that enables us to define profiles - but w3 does have a WG to define that
20:37:04 <jtandy> ... there are things like SPIN and shape expression -
20:37:21 <jtandy> ... the way we define a profile at the moment is to publish a PDF
20:37:34 <jtandy> ... it's that there are several ways to publish the profile
20:37:40 <jtandy> ... does anyone have any thoughts
20:38:03 <jtandy> Kerry: good point - slightly off scope, but maybe we could set the best practice for defining profiles in this group
20:38:04 <billroberts> is this what you mean by 'shape expression' phila? https://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl/
20:38:39 <jtandy> Kerry: PROV-O is a good example of documentation of an ontology - but this is a tremendous amount of work
20:39:23 <jtandy> Kerry: adding deeper 'OWL axiomisation' ... but not sure what that means
20:39:38 <jtandy> ... could mean the removal of reliance on DULCE?
20:39:50 <jtandy> ... more stuff that relates to modularisation
20:39:57 <jtandy> ... this is a big list
20:40:08 <jtandy> ... is there anything we've forgotten?
20:40:21 <MrJohnSCirincione> MrJohnSCirincione has joined #sdw
20:40:24 <jtandy> eparsons: big list - is this realistic?
20:40:48 <jtandy> Kerry: you could be right - we must do the documentation, but we're not starting from scratch
20:41:01 <jtandy> ... the redesign [modularisation] is needed
20:41:08 <jtandy> ... profiles are prob optional
20:41:21 <jtandy> ... we might be able to miss out the tutorial
20:41:35 <phila> q+ to ask about SSN as a FPWD
20:41:37 <jtandy> ... aligning with PROV-O is harder - because we're not quite sure how to do this
20:41:55 <jtandy> ... yes, there's a lot of stuff, but much of this has been done before and we can reuse
20:42:07 <eparsons> ack next
20:42:08 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to ask about SSN as a FPWD
20:42:16 <jtandy> ... obviously it depends on how much work people put in :-)
20:42:40 <jtandy> phila: so you also have SSN ... I'm thinking about my next WG that I can't call 'licensing'
20:42:57 <jtandy> ... there the FPWD will be ODRL, this is similar to SSN
20:43:22 <jtandy> ... would a lot of cutting & pasting from the earlier work be sufficient?
20:43:33 <jtandy> Kerry: modularisation needs to be done
20:44:00 <jtandy> ... that's numbers 1, 2 and 12 from the list that Kerry was referring to [ref?]
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20:45:01 <eparsons> jtandy relationstionship between OGC activities and this - how is this manifested at the ontology level
20:46:15 <jtandy> jtandy: talking about the O&M ontology work from Simon Cox
20:47:11 <MrJohnSCirincione> Present John Cirincione Collateral Analytics
20:47:16 <jtandy> Kerry: this might be done in the modularisation / refactoring ... treat O&M as an upper ontology ... making the mapping explicit
20:47:49 <jtandy> DanhLePhuoc: several tasks on the list can be merged; e.g. numbers 1 & 2
20:48:00 <eparsons> hello john will give you introduction in moment..
20:48:00 <jtandy> ... also specifying best practices and the tutorial action
20:48:09 <jtandy> Kerry: agrees
20:48:43 <jtandy> eparsons: notes that MrJohnSCirincione has joined us
20:49:02 <jtandy> MrJohnSCirincione: introduces himself
20:49:20 <phila> present+ MrJohnSCirincione
20:49:42 <jtandy> eparsons: please talk to myself or kerry offline to get some more context - at the moment we're in the weeds of a topic [not too accessible for a new starter]
20:49:52 <jtandy> Kerry: there's also ClausStadler_
20:49:56 <phila> present+ ClausStadler
20:50:15 <jtandy> ClausStadler_: introduces himself and notes some technical difficulties in joining
20:50:29 <jtandy> ... am from Leipzig University
20:50:38 <jtandy> eparsons: happy to brief you offline too
20:50:55 <jtandy> Kerry: right now we're focused on SSN, would welcome assistance on that
20:51:09 <MrJohnSCirincione> Ed and All, many thanks for the warm welcome, Sincerely  John C.
20:51:12 <jtandy> Kerry: so - I'm looking for feedback on what the SSN deliverable looks like
20:51:30 <jtandy> ... can you point to things that we should copy (e.g. other ontologies)
20:51:35 <jtandy> ... what about user documentation
20:51:49 <jtandy> ... are we talking about a family of documents
20:52:04 <jtandy> ... I like PROV-O - but that's a lot of work.
20:52:05 <Kerry> http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-overview/
20:52:14 <jtandy> eparsons: does anyone have any views?
20:52:15 <jtandy> q+
20:52:30 <eparsons> ack next
20:52:36 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
20:52:55 <jtandy> jtandy: suggests a primer
20:52:56 <phila> Primer++
20:53:22 <jtandy> Kerry: so this is like a tutorial ... a bit like it
20:53:34 <jtandy> jtandy: primer is for bootstrapping people
20:53:54 <jtandy> Kerry: so we're talking about many things .., tutorial, primer, howto
20:54:04 <jtandy> phila: surely the primer is a howto?
20:54:08 <eparsons> ack next
20:54:13 <phila> q+ to raise a point I remember Ralph making in DWBP
20:54:33 <jtandy> eparsons: primer is not so much of a beginner - but someone who has more that a passing (academic) interest in the topic
20:54:48 <jtandy> BartvanLeeuwen: it's difficult to see how this fits with this group ...
20:55:11 <jtandy> ... I'm interested in this because I'm creating a linked data fire engine which is covered in sensors
20:55:18 <jtandy> ... but how does this fit with spatial data
20:55:36 <jtandy> eparsons: I see that ... sensors fit in 'space' so there's a spatial element
20:55:37 <eparsons> ack next
20:55:38 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to raise a point I remember Ralph making in DWBP
20:56:19 <jtandy> ... but you're right that we need to make things coherent in [regards to the work of the _spatial_ data on the web group]
20:56:23 <Kerry> +q
20:56:41 <eparsons> ack next
20:57:26 <jtandy> phila: agrees - notes that in his other WG, it was odd that there was no cross referencing between the documents published within that group
20:57:51 <jtandy> jtandy: there will be cross referencing ... there are sections for dealing with sensor and observation data
20:58:13 <jtandy> Kerry: in our planning we put the BP stuff first ...
20:58:19 <jtandy> ... [missing]
20:58:43 <jtandy> ... we will need to pin down [the relationship between the deliverables] at some point in the future
20:59:06 <jtandy> eparsons: so in a future call we need to talk about the scope of the SSN work; the over arching scope
20:59:33 <jtandy> ... the BP doc will touch on sensor data, but the SSN deliverable will be much more detailed
21:00:01 <jtandy> ... we need an overarching scope to bind all the deliverables together [in terms of spatial data]
21:00:16 <jtandy> Kerry: agreed - sensor data _is_ spatial data
21:00:34 <jtandy> eparsons: BartvanLeeuwen can be our barometer of whether we've done this
21:00:42 <Linda> q+ to ask people to record their attendance of the next f2f
21:00:50 <jtandy> BartvanLeeuwen: I can see this - but it still feels different
21:01:24 <eparsons> ack next
21:01:25 <Zakim> Linda, you wanted to ask people to record their attendance of the next f2f
21:01:43 <Linda> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Attending_F2F3
21:01:55 <jtandy> jtandy: refers to the Linking Geospatial Data conference in London, 2013 ... this is where the scope of the WG was defined
21:02:13 <phila> I hear Ed getting his light sabre ready
21:02:21 <jtandy> Linda: please can you all record if you're going to attend the next f2f near Amsterdam
21:02:39 <jtandy> eparsons: thanks for your efforts, goodnight & merry christmas
21:02:41 <LarsG> happy christmas all
21:02:41 <phila> RRSAgent, generate minutes
21:02:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/16-sdw-minutes.html phila
21:02:42 <billroberts> thanks all - bye
21:02:48 <jtandy> Kerry: see you next year!
21:02:49 <eparsons> May the force me with you !!!
21:03:01 <eparsons> thanks scribes
21:03:07 <eparsons> rrsagent, draft minutes
21:03:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/16-sdw-minutes.html eparsons
21:05:02 <ScottSimmons> ScottSimmons has joined #sdw
21:05:30 <ScottSimmons> present+ ScottSimmons