16:48:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pf
16:48:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-pf-irc
16:48:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:48:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
16:48:09 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
16:48:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
16:48:10 <trackbot> Date: 09 December 2015
16:48:14 <janina> agenda?
16:48:21 <janina> zakim, clear agenda
16:48:22 <Zakim> agenda cleared
16:48:25 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
16:48:25 <janina> agenda+ APA Housekeeping Reminders http://www.w3.org/2015/10/apa-charter.html
16:48:25 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open
16:48:25 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
16:48:27 <janina> agenda+ Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/
16:48:28 <janina> agenda+ COGA TF Sync Up -- Lisa Seeman
16:48:30 <janina> agenda+ Tracker Migration
16:48:33 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
16:48:35 <janina> agenda+ next and future meetings http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_273
16:48:38 <janina> agenda+ be done
16:48:56 <janina>  zakim, next item
16:48:56 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, janina
16:49:01 <janina> ack
16:49:04 <janina> q?
16:49:07 <janina> ack m
16:49:07 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask about WAI IG announcement messages
16:49:15 <janina> zakim, next item
16:49:15 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
16:50:13 <LJWatson> LJWatson has joined #pf
16:56:30 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #pf
16:57:37 <Ryladog> what is the passocde for webex?
16:59:01 <JF> JF has joined #pf
17:00:02 <Ryladog> what is the passocde for webex?
17:00:04 <JF> present+ JF
17:00:20 <LJWatson> present+ LJWatson
17:00:25 <Ryladog> Present+ Katie Haritos-Shea
17:00:25 <fesch> fesch has joined #pf
17:02:00 <MichaelC> present+ MichaelC
17:02:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-pf-minutes.html MichaelC
17:02:20 <fesch> present+ fesch
17:02:21 <janina> present+ Janina
17:02:57 <MichaelC> chair: Janina
17:03:00 <Lisa_Seeman> Lisa_Seeman has joined #pf
17:03:36 <LJWatson> scribenick: LJWatson
17:03:41 <MichaelC> present+ Cynthia
17:03:51 <LJWatson> zakim, agenda?
17:03:51 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
17:03:52 <Zakim> 1. preview agenda with items from two minutes [from janina]
17:03:52 <Zakim> 2. APA Housekeeping Reminders http://www.w3.org/2015/10/apa-charter.html [from janina]
17:03:52 <Zakim> 3. Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open [from janina]
17:03:53 <Zakim> 4. new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html [from janina]
17:03:53 <Zakim> 5. Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/ [from janina]
17:03:53 <Zakim> 6. COGA TF Sync Up -- Lisa Seeman [from janina]
17:03:54 <Zakim> 8. Other Business [from janina]
17:03:54 <Zakim> 9. next and future meetings http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_273 [from janina]
17:03:54 <Zakim> 10. be done [from janina]
17:04:04 <LJWatson> zakim, take up item 1
17:04:04 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
17:04:31 <Lisa_Seeman> can someone ping me the webex password
17:04:53 <LJWatson> JS: COGA TF has two approaches to a gap analysis and would like opinions form both their parent WGs.
17:05:05 <Lisa_Seeman> thanks
17:05:17 <LJWatson> s/form both/from both/
17:05:28 <LJWatson> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
17:05:33 <LJWatson> zakim, close item 1
17:05:33 <Zakim> agendum 1, preview agenda with items from two minutes, closed
17:05:34 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:05:34 <Zakim> 2. APA Housekeeping Reminders http://www.w3.org/2015/10/apa-charter.html [from janina]
17:05:37 <LJWatson> zakim, take up item 2
17:05:37 <Zakim> agendum 2. "APA Housekeeping Reminders http://www.w3.org/2015/10/apa-charter.html" taken up [from janina]
17:06:02 <LJWatson> JS: Invited experts can now join APA.
17:06:25 <LJWatson> ... We will close down the PF WG and infrastructure at the end of this year.
17:06:40 <LJWatson> ... We need to have all member organisations transferred before then.
17:07:49 <LJWatson> MC: If you are an IE and haven't transferred, please do.
17:08:03 <LJWatson> LS: I couldn't get access.
17:08:17 <LJWatson> MC: Use your W3C password. If you still have trouble contact me offline.
17:08:47 <LJWatson> JN: Still working on transferring.
17:09:01 <LJWatson> JS: Will it be a problem before the end of December?
17:09:10 <LJWatson> JN: ARIA should be ok, APA may be a problem.
17:09:26 <LJWatson> JS: Microsoft hasn't joined.
17:09:33 <LJWatson> CS: Will follow-up on that.
17:09:41 <LJWatson> ... Have we joined ARIA?
17:09:50 <LJWatson> MC: Not yet.
17:09:59 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:09:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-pf-minutes.html LJWatson
17:11:28 <LJWatson> JS: We will likely adopt the same approach as ARIA for the email list, to enable wide participation from the community.
17:12:03 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
17:12:03 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
17:13:55 <LJWatson> MC: Actions due in January for Cyns and Rich, actions due next week for Janina, James, Léonie.
17:14:09 <LJWatson> action-16669?
17:14:09 <trackbot> Sorry, but action-16669 does not exist.
17:14:31 <LJWatson> action-1669?
17:14:31 <trackbot> action-1669 -- Katie Haritos-Shea to Look at data on the web best practices http://www.w3.org/tr/dwbp/ -- due 2015-10-21 -- OPEN
17:14:31 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1669
17:15:02 <LJWatson> KHS: Hoping we can come back to this when we talk about requirements for APIs.
17:15:10 <LJWatson> ... Give me until January.
17:15:38 <MichaelC> action-1669 due 20 Jan 2016
17:15:38 <trackbot> Set action-1669 Look at data on the web best practices http://www.w3.org/tr/dwbp/ due date to 2016-01-20.
17:15:52 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
17:15:52 <Zakim> agendum 4. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html" taken up [from janina]
17:16:01 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:16:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-pf-minutes.html LJWatson
17:16:14 <LJWatson> MC: Under CR
17:16:34 <LJWatson> ... CSS Custom Properties for Cascading Variables L1
17:16:41 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/css-variables-1/ CSS Custom Properties for Cascading Variables Module Level 1
17:17:13 <LJWatson> ... Think we decided we didn't want to look at this, but can't be sure.
17:17:19 <LJWatson> JS: Sounds correct to me.
17:18:31 <LJWatson> MC: CSS Will Change module L1
17:18:38 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/css-will-change-1/ CSS Will Change Module Level 1
17:19:15 <LJWatson> JN: Why is this CSS and not DOM?
17:19:33 <LJWatson> MC: Assume it's because the CSS will change. Don't know though.
17:21:31 <LJWatson> ... Ok, no need to review.
17:21:38 <LJWatson> ... WD
17:21:57 <LJWatson> ... No FPWDs.
17:22:07 <LJWatson> JS: Don't need to go through these now.
17:22:46 <LJWatson> JF: Think we should get more clarity on Media Source Extensions (CR)
17:23:07 <LJWatson> ... It will allow JavaScript to be used to create broadcast playlists.
17:23:19 <LJWatson> ... It's a very technical document.
17:23:40 <LJWatson> ... If this functionality looks to string together media blobs, what happens to the supporting content?
17:24:08 <LJWatson> JS: We can comment to say that we would like this document to acknowledge this point and show how alternative/supporting content should be handled.
17:24:52 <LJWatson> ... Do you think the spec is written in such a way that makes it difficult to understand the intent?
17:25:11 <LJWatson> JF: There is some plain content, but there is a lot of procedural/API stuff.
17:25:30 <LJWatson> ... Outside of the intro it starts to get technical very quickly.
17:25:41 <LJWatson> JS: What's the window for responding?
17:25:55 <LJWatson> JF: Posted on 12 November.
17:26:35 <LJWatson> JS: Think we should comment. Perhaps hold the HTML TF call tomorrow to discuss.
17:26:45 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:26:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-pf-minutes.html LJWatson
17:27:20 <LJWatson> JS: Anything else?
17:27:43 <LJWatson> JF: There is a large image in the spec. It has an alt but no detailed description for the pipeline.
17:28:52 <LJWatson> KHS: Isn't it only the overview that should have the plain language?
17:29:18 <LJWatson> JF: Even if that were the case, what they're attempting to do still isn't clearly defined enough.
17:30:44 <LJWatson> JS: We should grep the spec to see how often key words like "captions" turn up.
17:30:58 <LJWatson> JF: There is no mention of "captions" for example.
17:31:12 <LJWatson> KHS: These APIs are intended to be very specific.
17:32:49 <LJWatson> LW: Conversations in different places within W3 are leading towards the idea we can make APIs easier to understand by providing plain language/prose explanations.
17:33:05 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
17:33:05 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/" taken up [from janina]
17:33:13 <JF> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Spec_Review/Community_Groups#New_Community_Groups_to_review
17:33:50 <LJWatson> JF: Three CGs set up in September RDF Test suite curation, Social Economy, and Machine Learning Schema.
17:34:14 <LJWatson> ... The Machine Learning Schema may be of interest, prhaps with reference to COGA. It's tennuous at best though.
17:34:51 <LJWatson> ... They're looking to promote schemas for data mining and machine learning.
17:35:08 <LJWatson> ... Could argue that machine learning and learning algorithms are relevant to COGA.
17:36:39 <LJWatson> JS: Suggest Marku H looks at this.
17:37:15 <MichaelC> s/Marku H/Markku Hakkinen/
17:38:09 <LJWatson> ACTION: Suggest Markku to have RQTF to look at the Machine Learning Schema CG for a11y implications - due 15 Feb 2016
17:38:09 <trackbot> Error finding 'Suggest'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
17:38:40 <LJWatson> ACTION: Markku to have RQTF to look at the Machine Learning Schema CG for a11y implications - due 17 Feb 2016
17:38:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1759 - Have rqtf to look at the machine learning schema cg for a11y implications [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2016-02-17].
17:39:32 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
17:39:32 <Zakim> agendum 6. "COGA TF Sync Up -- Lisa Seeman" taken up [from janina]
17:39:58 <LJWatson> LS: We have information in lots of different places.
17:40:04 <JF> Q+
17:40:07 <LJWatson> ... We need to put it into digestible form.
17:40:27 <LJWatson> ... It is a lot of work so we need to get it right.
17:41:20 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Gap_Analysis_Summary#Summary_of_Issues
17:41:25 <LJWatson> ... There are two proposals. We've taken a single issue and put it into the different proposed formats, so people can look at both.
17:42:19 <LJWatson> Approach 1 is a summary.
17:42:31 <LJWatson> ... Each issue is summarised in about half a page.
17:42:57 <LJWatson> ... The solution is also summarised.
17:43:08 <LJWatson> ... Approach 2 is a table format.
17:43:09 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/gap-analysis/table.html
17:43:32 <LJWatson> ... The table contains all user needs and all user requirements, and how we will solve them.
17:44:20 <LJWatson> ... This resulted in a very long table.
17:44:31 <LJWatson> ... So we've grouped things with headings within the table.
17:44:52 <LJWatson> ... Another option would be to make each user need a separate table.
17:44:57 <LJWatson> rssagent, make minutes
17:45:14 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:45:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-pf-minutes.html LJWatson
17:46:34 <LJWatson> ... The question is do people feel we need the summary, the table, or both?
17:46:48 <LJWatson> ... If the table, then do we need one or both?
17:46:58 <fesch> q?
17:46:58 <LJWatson> KHS: Why not the summary at the top of the table?
17:47:04 <janina> q?
17:47:09 <LJWatson> LS: Only reason is that it doubles the work.
17:47:14 <janina> ack jf
17:47:36 <LJWatson> JF: If you need help getting this written, I have someone on team interested in helping.
17:47:47 <janina> q?
17:48:06 <LJWatson> ... I like the separated table instead of all users in a single table.
17:48:24 <LJWatson> LS: We can't do it by user group. That would explode.
17:48:43 <LJWatson> ... We can do it by user requirement though.
17:49:21 <LJWatson> JF: So user requirements would be good, but again separate tables.
17:49:47 <janina> q?
17:50:00 <LJWatson> LS: If we have a summary do we need the tables, or vice versa?
17:50:17 <LJWatson> JF: People consume content differently. Having both seems like the optimum solution.
17:50:23 <LJWatson> +1 to both summary and tables.
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17:50:49 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
17:50:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-pf-minutes.html jamesn
17:51:08 <LJWatson> JS: Agree with JF.
17:51:58 <LJWatson> ... If you have a lot of people unfamiliar with the topic, focusing on the summary first might be a good approach.
17:52:26 <LJWatson> LS: In a first WD getting the summary right, then adding the tables later?
17:52:29 <LJWatson> JS: Yes.
17:53:40 <LJWatson> LW: That seems like a good strategy.
17:53:43 <LJWatson> JF: Yes.
17:54:18 <LJWatson> ... Introducing Kurt, my colleague at Deque who is interested in helping with this activity.
17:54:44 <LJWatson> LS: Welcome Kurt. You need to join the calls so we can include you on the work.
17:54:57 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:54:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-pf-minutes.html LJWatson
17:55:01 <LJWatson> KM: Will do.
17:55:14 <LJWatson> LS: We can add you to whichever sub-group you'd like to be part of.
17:55:43 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
17:55:43 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Other Business" taken up [from janina]
17:56:39 <fesch> scribe: fesch
17:56:56 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Spec_Review Spec Review in APA wiki
17:57:21 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:Spec_Review Spec Review Overview
17:57:54 <fesch> mc: has a spec review wiki - will create a page when a spec is reviewed
17:58:26 <fesch> mc: uses feature called subpages, helps keep them organized, wondering about naming pages
17:58:51 <fesch> mc: each page has a link to the spec and a bullet list of activity
17:59:34 <fesch> mc: over time we would look at page, and on review add a note
17:59:53 <fesch> mc: when we have comments for the WG, we put a pointer in the list
18:00:04 <fesch> mc: any input?
18:00:32 <fesch> js: how hierarchical is it? As we grow we could get in trouble
18:00:55 <fesch> js: we need a log like requirement...
18:01:07 <fesch> mc: we can add other categories...
18:01:27 <fesch> mc: we could categorize them by technology, WG...
18:01:51 <fesch> mc: could link to other things
18:02:22 <fesch> mc: may have to use wiki search features or internet search features
18:03:07 <fesch> js: think about this, would like to get started in January... would like to get it going... and have been asked to engage the wider community
18:03:45 <fesch> rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-pf-minutes.html fesch
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