15:38:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #annotation
15:38:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-annotation-irc
15:38:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:38:53 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #annotation
15:38:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2666
15:38:55 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:38:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Annotation Working Group Teleconference
15:38:56 <trackbot> Date: 09 December 2015
15:39:03 <ivan> Chair: Ivan
15:39:23 <ivan> Regrets: Rob, Frederick, Davis, Paolo
15:39:43 <ivan> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/mid/A03EDDD0-7608-439E-97D6-23FA19659127@w3.org
15:52:00 <shepazu> present+ shepazu
15:53:39 <ivan> Regrets+ Chris
15:57:19 <tilgovi> tilgovi has joined #annotation
15:57:34 <ivan> Present+ Ivan
15:58:55 <tbdinesh> tbdinesh has joined #annotation
16:00:18 <tilgovi> Present+ Randall_Leeds
16:00:25 <TimCole> TimCole has joined #annotation
16:01:35 <Jacob> Jacob has joined #annotation
16:02:56 <tbdinesh> Present+ TB_Dinesh
16:03:39 <Jacob> Present+ Jacob_Jett
16:03:56 <ivan> Present+ Tim_Cole
16:07:45 <ivan> scribenick; tbdinesh
16:07:52 <ivan> scribenick: tbdinesh
16:08:03 <ivan> minutes of last week: http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-annotation-minutes.html
16:08:20 <tbdinesh> ivan: any reason not to accept the minutes?
16:08:30 <tbdinesh> ivan: minutes accepted
16:08:37 <ivan> Topic: findtext
16:08:58 <tbdinesh> ivan: item on the agenda is findtext
16:10:06 <tbdinesh> shepazu: we got some feed back from TPAC. mixed. some like the idea, some had problems. am trying to put them on github. meantime.. some minor typos like that i am cleaning up
16:10:37 <tbdinesh> ... dont feel like we have enough substance re which direction to go. am trying to get people to do a tech review of it
16:10:38 <ivan> q+
16:11:15 <tbdinesh> ivan: one tech discussion before TPAC: usage or not of promises
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16:11:43 <tbdinesh> ... we have to ask someone who is better at it in understanding promises
16:12:16 <tbdinesh> shepazu: lets ask someone from the TAG
16:12:53 <tbdinesh> ... make it an issue (ivan will do it)
16:13:07 <bjdmeest> Present+ Ben_De_Meester
16:13:49 <tbdinesh> ivan: pending discussion at TPAC - whether to keep 1 big entry in the api or simple + 1
16:14:11 <tbdinesh> shepazu: not got feedback on this yet from anyone
16:14:27 <tbdinesh> ... prob we will hear more after xmas
16:15:06 <shepazu> https://github.com/w3c/findtext/issues/18
16:15:09 <tbdinesh> ... it is caputured as issue #18
16:17:28 <tbdinesh> shepazu: another thing. a feedback i got at TPAC (from Paul Cotton?): the use cases - dont know if we have concrete use cases about robust anchoring or deep linking.
16:18:13 <tbdinesh> ... i could use some help about documenting so we can communicate why i made the choices about it.
16:19:18 <tbdinesh> ... (dinesh will help)
16:20:52 <bengo> bengo has joined #annotation
16:21:14 <tbdinesh> ... paul said that the case was not presented well on why they had to be different. 1) needed to be parameterizable (param: fragment identifiers)
16:21:41 <Jacob> Tim and I will look at CG use cases to see if any might apply. If so, we will add as issue on current document.
16:22:03 <Jacob> Please do.
16:22:23 <Jacob> make a wiki (probably github wiki?)
16:22:34 <tbdinesh> shepazu: will make a page on the github wiki
16:22:54 <ivan> q?
16:24:50 <shepazu> https://github.com/w3c/findtext/wiki/Use-Cases
16:26:40 <tbdinesh> ivan: we should make some sort of planning. do we have any idea on how we develop findtext
16:26:59 <tbdinesh> ... we will need a fairly aggressive schedule
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16:27:51 <tbdinesh> shepazu: i think the next step is simply to get feedback.
16:28:09 <tbdinesh> ivan: can we reach out for somebody re promises issue
16:28:34 <tbdinesh> shepazu: will reach out first to dominique and nicole
16:29:12 <ivan> s/dominique/dominic/
16:29:38 <shepazu> s/dominique and nicole/Dominic Denicola
16:30:42 <tbdinesh> shepazu: i could get try to invite them to this call
16:31:32 <tbdinesh> ... (re browser acceptence)
16:33:00 <tbdinesh> ivan: that would be 1 more microsoft and we need more from others (like chrome)
16:34:14 <tbdinesh> s/more/from
16:34:22 <ivan> Topic: html encoding
16:34:50 <shepazu> q+
16:34:59 <ivan> ack ivan
16:36:02 <tbdinesh> TimCole: one thing that comes up: where in the original blog .. (can hear well) .. i would be interested in surfaceing such use cases. need to think about additional  doc
16:36:33 <Jacob> TimCole: one of the CG use cases was how blogs are a chain of annos
16:36:51 <Jacob> ... would be helpful if the addons could be linked to places higher up in the chain
16:37:06 <Jacob> ... seems like the data model, findtext api, etc. could be helpful
16:37:38 <Jacob> ... would like to get conversations about this, rdfa, other microformats started to determine if we are already accommodating it enough
16:37:40 <ivan> ack shepazu
16:37:56 <Jacob> ... or if we need something further down the road. mainly getting it on the radar for now.
16:38:33 <Jacob> shepazu: realistically, probably won't get traction from conceptualizing blogs as a chain of annotations
16:38:43 <tbdinesh> shepazu: 1) while i can see why you say blogs can be seen as a set of annos, realistically thats not how we get traction as thats not ho wppl think of blogs today
16:39:08 <tbdinesh> ... where we could get traction is comments and footnotes, as ref to content
16:39:36 <Jacob> @shepazu, I'm pretty sure that Tim was talking about the comments and footnotes and their relationships to each other and the original blog post.
16:39:42 <tbdinesh> ... we need to figure out a cannonical serialization .. many annos are going to bethings that are ultimately rendered in html
16:40:36 <tbdinesh> ... but if we have a few elemnts that cannonically fit the model then we can get ppl to start rendering their annos in (to a datastructure)..
16:40:43 <shepazu> http://schepers.cc/annotations/note-element/note-element.html
16:41:29 <tbdinesh> ... an example page playing with footnotes and what behaviour .. about notes. eg., blockquote
16:41:48 <tbdinesh> ... where you quote wht a person said and you say something about it
16:41:55 <Jacob> Is the expectation that implementers are using this instead or within the context of kinja or disqus or similar commenting widgets?
16:42:11 <tbdinesh> ... if you look at the source of the page you can see it maps back
16:42:53 <tbdinesh> ... i am thinking footnotes, comments, user generated social feedback like tweets
16:44:04 <tbdinesh> TimCole: (lost sound)
16:45:53 <tbdinesh> shepazu: experts disagreed. when i looked at the resulting syntax, .. with rdfa .. i have given up on ppl undestaning namespaces
16:45:56 <Jacob> TimCole: if we want to raise this as an issue, where do we put it?
16:46:12 <Jacob> shepazu: maybe a branch called serializations
16:46:32 <Jacob> ivan: create a separate label
16:46:46 <tbdinesh> ivan: have separate labels for this
16:48:06 <tbdinesh> ivan: as a tech comment, as one of the authors of rdfa, i agree. as the structure gets complicated it has the draback as more namespaces are used
16:48:43 <tbdinesh> shepazu: we need our own set of attributes adding decorators at the element level
16:49:01 <tbdinesh> ivan: agree, data attributes are not the accepted way
16:49:41 <tbdinesh> shepazu: not that we shd not have rdfa serialization but that it is not the reference one
16:50:52 <tbdinesh> TimCole: we are going to move forward with rdfa for now
16:51:03 <tbdinesh> ... next few months and maybe we get better ideas
16:51:26 <tbdinesh> ivan: once the document becomes stable, we code them in rdfa
16:51:42 <tbdinesh> TimCole: we can certainly do that for ones with html examples
16:52:17 <tbdinesh> ivan: doug do you know what the current state is of web components
16:52:36 <tbdinesh> shepazu: i am using the web components model to define a prototype
16:53:12 <tbdinesh> ... only google and microsoft are looking at this seriously and i dont think this will be ready for 2 or 3 yrs
16:53:26 <tbdinesh> ... dont see what that as to do with this
16:53:46 <tbdinesh> ivan: so its not your proposal to use web components here
16:53:49 <tbdinesh> shepazu: no
16:54:08 <tilgovi> web components is an umbrella term... some things are proposed or standardized: shadow dom, custom elements, html imports
16:54:17 <tilgovi> "web components" is not a standard itself
16:54:30 <tbdinesh> ... ewb components are used by web developers and if they come up with a good idea, it will be standardized and will be put up in the html namespace
16:54:40 <tbdinesh> s/ewb/bweb
16:54:50 <tbdinesh> s/bweb/web
16:55:13 <tbdinesh> shepazu: tim will raise the issue
16:55:57 <TimCole> bye bye
16:56:06 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:56:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-annotation-minutes.html ivan
17:23:25 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
17:23:25 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:23:25 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been shepazu, Ivan, Randall_Leeds, TB_Dinesh, Jacob_Jett, Tim_Cole, Ben_De_Meester
17:23:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:23:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-annotation-minutes.html trackbot
17:23:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:23:34 <RRSAgent> I see no action items