13:00:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-ap
13:00:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-wot-ap-irc
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13:03:10 <dape> present+ Daniel_Peintner
13:03:32 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:03:40 <Yingying> present+ Yingying
13:03:47 <kaz> zakim, pick up a victim
13:03:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick up a victim', kaz
13:03:53 <kaz> rrsagent, pick up a victim
13:03:53 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'pick up a victim', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:04:21 <katsu> present+ Katsuyoshi_Naka
13:04:56 <kaz> pick a scribe
13:05:06 <kaz> zakim, pick a scribe
13:05:07 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Yingying
13:05:33 <kaz> Meeting: TF-AP
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13:05:48 <jhund> present+ Johannes_Hund, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Matthias_kovatsch
13:05:53 <kaz> Chair: Johannes
13:06:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:06:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
13:06:18 <Yingying> scribe: Yingying
13:06:23 <kaz> scribenick: Yingying
13:06:27 <Claes> Present+ Claes_Nilsson
13:06:37 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:06:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
13:06:45 <Yingying> Johannes: agenda
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13:07:57 <Yingying> ... 1. Keepalive for RESTful services (Claes)
13:08:13 <kaz> present: Kaz_Ashimura, Yingying_Chen, Ari_Keranen, Arne_Broering, Carsten_Bormann, Claes_Nilsson, Katsuyoshi_Naka, Kazuaki_Nimura, Michael_Koster, Takuki_Kamiya, Tuan_Tran
13:08:16 <Yingying> ... 2. Report from joint W3C WoT / IRTF T2T RG(Ari)
13:08:32 <Yingying> ...3. - Goal setting for Nice Meeting
13:08:32 <Yingying> - ideas for next plugfest
13:08:46 <kaz> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Dec/0000.html
13:09:13 <Yingying> Topic: Claes show the RESTful services slides.
13:09:27 <Yingying> Claes: 10 mins of presentation.
13:10:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:10:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
13:11:13 <Yingying> ...this is a typical example of things require both peers to act as both client and server.
13:12:19 <Yingying> ...next slide, CoAP as example. E2E keep alive < 30s, which means you could not connect to the device beyond the time.
13:12:45 <kaz> present: Kaz_Ashimura, Claes_Nilsson, Ari_Keranen, Arne_Broering, Carsten_Bormann, Daniel_Peintner, Johannes_Hund, Katsuyoshi_Naka, Kazuaki_Nimura, Michael_Koster, Takuki_Kamiya, Tuan_Tran, Yingying_Chen
13:13:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:13:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
13:13:03 <Yingying> ...next slide, Web Socket as example. Although the living time is longer, there is still problem.
13:13:30 <kaz> i|10 mins|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Dec/att-0001/Issues_with_bi-directional_communication_for_CoAP_and_other_IoT_related_protocols.pdf Claes' slides|
13:13:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:13:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
13:14:02 <kaz> s/- ideas/... 4. ideas/
13:14:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:14:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
13:14:13 <Yingying> ...I have discussion with my colleage. For BT LE, the device wakes up every second.
13:14:46 <Yingying> ...the worst case for receiving the msg is 2s.
13:15:36 <Yingying> ...to keep the NAT/firewall awake is battery consuming.
13:17:05 <Yingying> ...For LTE MTC modes, devices sleep most of the time.  The wake up interval is dynamically configurable.
13:17:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:17:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
13:17:36 <Yingying> ...Wakeup internal could only be configured in the server side.
13:18:57 <Yingying> ...keeping firewalls open depends on use cases.
13:20:14 <Yingying> ...existing solution: OMA LWM2M as option one. There is other solution, e.g. Amazon AWS IoT, that I haven't had time to study.
13:22:33 <Sebastian> Sebastian has joined #wot-ap
13:23:21 <kaz> cabo: problem is UDP timeout
13:23:33 <Yingying> Carsten: Most NATs have longer timeout on TCP.
13:24:02 <Yingying> ...That's one of the two reason we use CoAP+TCP.
13:24:35 <kaz> present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch
13:24:45 <kaz> rrsagnt, draft minutes
13:24:53 <Yingying> ...IPv6 Gateway solution is something we can influence.
13:25:24 <jhund> cabo points to RFC 6092
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13:26:15 <kaz> -> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6092 RFC6092
13:26:51 <Yingying> Claes: 3rd area, LTE MTC, the devices are directly connected. No gateway.
13:27:24 <Yingying> ...We have tricky part there.
13:27:31 <kaz> present+ Danh_Le_Phuoc
13:28:10 <Yingying> ...We could configure wake up time, etc; maybe we should configure firewall.
13:29:12 <Yingying> ...I can make more investigation on LTE MTC. It's something we could look into and find a way to make it as efficient as possible.
13:29:41 <Yingying> Michael: Firewall traversal solution?
13:31:27 <Yingying> ...XMPP has external server.
13:31:51 <Yingying> ...channel between server and your device is something like P2P.
13:32:16 <Yingying> Johannes: WebRTC?
13:33:22 <Yingying> Ari: ICE itself is complex, somehow need to be simplified for constrainted device
13:33:45 <Yingying> Topic: Report from joint W3C WoT / IRTF T2T RG
13:34:15 <Yingying> JoHannes: one joint meeting, two breakout sessions.
13:34:27 <kaz> s/JoHannes/Johannes/
13:34:38 <Yingying> ...could Ari give short rampup?
13:34:49 <kaz> s/rampup/wrap-up/
13:35:10 <Yingying> Ari: based on RESTful track, one is how to design RESTful for IoT.
13:35:45 <Yingying> ...2nd developing and testing the hypertext driven solution.
13:36:07 <Yingying> ...for application state, how do you model it in the RESTful.
13:36:45 <Yingying> ...another topic, how to use links and values in RESTful.
13:37:56 <Yingying> Johannes: could some body post the minutes to IRC?
13:38:11 <kaz> s/some body/somebody/
13:38:26 <kaz> -> http://www.w3.org/2015/11/01-wot-minutes.html draft minute on the W3C side
13:38:33 <Yingying> ...how plugrest is related plugfest in Sapporo?
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13:39:26 <Yingying> ...we can do cross platform test on different implementation and make preparation for joint meeting in Nice.
13:40:04 <Yingying> ...could Carsten to give introduction of security related staff?
13:40:16 <Yingying> Carsten: Oliver's made presentation.
13:41:52 <Yingying> ...Authentication token
13:42:10 <Yingying> ...how to express the refreshness.
13:43:04 <Yingying> ... one document of security consideration of WoT was discussed.
13:43:29 <Yingying> ...bootstrapping approach used by Lamonbeat was discussed.
13:44:12 <Yingying> ...made official charter this morning. Ari is the cochair.
13:44:22 <Yingying> ...congrats!
13:44:49 <Yingying> Johannes: comments on the joint meeting?
13:45:14 <Yingying> ...we will have another joint meeting in Nice. Welcome everybody join the meeting.
13:45:48 <Yingying> Topic: Goal setting for Nice Meeting
13:46:18 <Yingying> Johannes: I would like share something with you.
13:46:49 <Yingying> ...this is the slide showed in TPAC.
13:47:08 <Yingying> Johannes quickly went through the slides.
13:48:16 <Yingying> Johannes: suggest to look into the things.
13:48:57 <Yingying> ...some API could be used to expose the thing.
13:49:04 <kaz> i|would like|-> http://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/images/b/b9/TF-AP_status_TPAC15.pdf Johannes' slides|
13:49:11 <kaz> rrsgent, draft minutes
13:49:17 <Yingying> ...we can access some things on regular web pages.
13:49:18 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:49:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
13:49:25 <kaz> s|rrsgent, draft minutes||
13:49:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:49:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz
13:49:45 <Yingying> ... some APIs could be used to access the HW drivers.
13:50:40 <Yingying> ...If the script is written for manufacture A could be used for manufacture B with modification.
13:51:13 <Yingying> ...this could be one of the topic we could discuss in next meeting.
13:51:23 <Yingying> ...I would like to hear your comments.
13:52:13 <Yingying> Claes: We have proposal for scripting API and for things API.
13:52:30 <Yingying> ...how far should we go in the IG for these APIs?
13:53:02 <Yingying> Johannes: there are different design of APIs.
13:53:22 <Yingying> ...there are some different ways to go to design API.
13:53:44 <Yingying> ...IG is in a very good position to experiment on the APIs.
13:54:05 <Yingying> ...which ones are feasible.
13:54:34 <Yingying> ...gather experiences during experiments.
13:54:46 <Yingying> ...what should be in and what should be out the scope.
13:55:29 <Yingying> Michael: we can open discussions on hypermedia driven interfaces
13:56:03 <Yingying> Kazuaki: some kinds of adaptor in under layer.
13:56:26 <kaz> s/under/underlying/
13:57:28 <Yingying> ...higher layer adaption needs to be considered.
13:57:39 <Yingying> ...to access the GPIO.
13:58:01 <Yingying> ...my question is how to choose the protocol in the adaptor.
13:59:01 <Yingying> Carsten: we would like to have common APIs for local and remote devices.
13:59:38 <Yingying> Johannes: this level of abstraction could be the layer of you describe the thing.
14:00:09 <Yingying> ...You could use the thing as the abstraction.
14:01:35 <Yingying> Meteous: Physical API is to access the different HW.
14:01:53 <Yingying> ...could also run remotely.
14:02:25 <Yingying> Johannes: I can see there are many interesting points in the discussion.
14:02:56 <Yingying> ...I wonder if we have other topics or goals to be discussed in Nice so that we could prepare.
14:03:47 <Yingying> Daniel: Louay and I agree that we could go beyond javascript API
14:04:04 <Yingying> ...e.g. Web IDL that can be used for other language.
14:04:15 <Yingying> ...first test could be the plugfest.
14:04:27 <Yingying> ...whether we could use these APIs to communicate.
14:04:58 <Yingying> Johannes: we should not aim at only for javascript.
14:05:29 <Yingying> ...is that what you want to say?
14:06:03 <Yingying> Daniel: we can focus on some specifi language but we could broad it.
14:06:20 <Yingying> s/specifi/specific/
14:07:31 <Yingying> Topic: ideas for next plugfest
14:08:12 <Yingying> Johannes: we have different people in the plugfest based on some rough spec posted on wiki in TPAC.
14:09:13 <Yingying> ...We think this valuable to include not only theoretic discussion but some practical implementation.
14:09:28 <Yingying> ...we would like to continue in the next F2F in Nice.
14:09:37 <Yingying> ...I discussed with Oliver.
14:10:13 <Yingying> ...whether we could do the plugfest with security concept.
14:10:44 <Yingying> ...do we have any comments on the idea to carry some security implementation on next plugfest?
14:11:34 <Yingying> Carsten: Let's focus on the structural part.
14:12:50 <Yingying> Johannes: the whole model who can ask for what authentication or token is a real challenge of WoT.
14:13:50 <Yingying> ...not suggest to the details.
14:14:06 <Yingying> ...one idea is the thing description.
14:14:40 <Yingying> ...do the thing need access control.
14:15:02 <Yingying> ...what kind of resources are protected, what are not in the TD.
14:16:01 <Yingying> ...we could go further to the discovery direction as well.
14:20:12 <Yingying> Meteous: we could post the vocabulary for the function, API that could use on the thing.
14:21:14 <Yingying> Johannes: I would like to take an action to make introduction of simple specification on the whole thing API
14:21:44 <Yingying> ...if someone has already had some idea, welcome to send to the mailing list.
14:22:35 <Yingying> ...any other comments?
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14:23:33 <Yingying> rrsagent, make minutes
14:23:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-wot-ap-minutes.html Yingying
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