17:44:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
17:44:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/11/30-aria-apg-irc
17:45:27 <jamesn> Agenda+ Update pattern work assignments and status https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status
17:45:27 <jamesn> Agenda+ Placement and format of design paterns for structural ARIA elements like landmarks and lists; draft example of landmarks pattern by John https://rawgit.com/jongund/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html
17:45:27 <jamesn> Agenda+ Review bug fixes for menu and menubar pattern https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg_menuPattern/practices/aria-practices.html
17:45:38 <jamesn> Agenda+ Review bug fixes for menubutton design pattern https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg_menuPattern/practices/aria-practices.html
17:45:45 <jamesn> Agenda+ Review revised descriptive text for example of mixed checkbox https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html
17:52:31 <MichielBijl> MichielBijl has joined #aria-apg
17:53:21 <jemma_ku> jemma_ku has joined #aria-apg
17:53:25 <jemma_ku> hi
17:57:18 <jemma_ku> can I get meeting pw?
17:58:14 <jemma_ku> I understand and it is easy pw
18:00:29 <mck> mck has joined #aria-apg
18:00:54 <annabbott> annabbott has joined #aria-apg
18:01:00 <jamesn> present+ JamesNurthen
18:01:23 <annabbott> present+ AnnAbbott
18:01:36 <jemma_ku> present+ jemma_jaeun_Ku
18:01:36 <MichielBijl> present+ Michiel_Bijl
18:04:43 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria-apg
18:10:40 <jamesn> rrsagent, make log world
18:13:19 <mck> test
18:13:35 <jamesn> agenda?
18:15:17 <jamesn> zakim, pick a victim
18:15:17 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose JamesNurthen
18:15:19 <MichielBijl> scribe: MichielBijl
18:16:58 <MichielBijl> Zakim, next
18:16:58 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next', MichielBijl
18:17:00 <MichielBijl> Zakim, next item
18:17:00 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Update pattern work assignments and status https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status" taken up [from jamesn]
18:17:25 <MichielBijl> MK: Have edited the first column of the status table
18:17:50 <MichielBijl> MK: dialog modal isn't quite ready
18:18:06 <MichielBijl> MK: put Jon's name in the edit column for landmarks
18:18:22 <MichielBijl> MK: those are the changes that have been made recently
18:19:04 <MichielBijl> MK: any takers for menu/menubutton?
18:19:13 <MichielBijl> JG: me and Jemma can take that
18:19:23 <MichielBijl> AA: I can help with landmarks.
18:20:59 <MichielBijl> JN: Jon and Jemma, you still have radio/checkbox group to do.
18:21:43 <MichielBijl> Zakim, next item
18:21:43 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Placement and format of design paterns for structural ARIA elements like landmarks and lists; draft example of landmarks pattern by John
18:21:45 <Zakim> ... https://rawgit.com/jongund/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html" taken up [from jamesn]
18:22:08 <MichielBijl> MK: agenda item for larger topic
18:22:26 <MichielBijl> MK: where do we put stuff in the guide related to non interactive widgets
18:22:55 <MichielBijl> MK: there may be deswign patterns like landmarks, but not have them limited to interactive role
18:23:01 <MichielBijl> s/deswign/design
18:23:19 <MichielBijl> MK: or have a separate section for them
18:23:34 <MichielBijl> MK: do you want us to look at your example content first Jon?
18:23:43 <MichielBijl> MK: did you do some writing at that link?
18:24:03 <MichielBijl> JG: started to write some stuff. But looked at overall structure. Need to talk about.
18:24:20 <MichielBijl> JG: right now there is a landmark section
18:24:32 <MichielBijl> JG: I think we should have a section for non-interactive widgets.
18:24:59 <MichielBijl> JG: we have a lot of them: map, list, etc
18:25:43 <MichielBijl> JG: help developers find them easier
18:26:01 <MichielBijl> MK: do we want an index section of the document?
18:27:36 <MichielBijl> regrets+ Léonie_Watson
18:27:56 <MichielBijl> MK: if we have that in our guide, it would be easier for people who are using it to use it as a reference
18:28:37 <MichielBijl> MK: why would you separate interactive and non-interactive, what about cases where it's not clear?
18:28:52 <MichielBijl> JG: have a section for landmark roles
18:31:30 <MichielBijl> chair: Matt_King
18:34:51 <MichielBijl> JG: me and Ann will propose a solution/example and we'll take it from there
18:38:42 <annabbott> Jon & Ann: landmarks on Dec 14 agenda
18:39:03 <MichielBijl> Zakim, next item
18:39:03 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Review bug fixes for menu and menubar pattern https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg_menuPattern/practices/aria-practices.html" taken up [from jamesn]
18:39:43 <MichielBijl> MK: I'll merge after the call
18:40:17 <MichielBijl> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg_menuPattern/practices/aria-practices.html#menu
18:42:00 <jemma_ku> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg_menuPattern/practices/aria-practices.html#h-menu
18:42:24 <MichielBijl> MK: removed references to desktop applications
18:43:19 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria/compare/apg_menuPattern
18:45:24 <MichielBijl> MK: made keyboard section shorter and added notes to clarify
18:48:03 <MichielBijl> JN: don't want to add links to everything
18:49:31 <MichielBijl> AA: remove the link on menu button?
18:49:43 <MichielBijl> JN: no, links to separate section
18:51:17 <MichielBijl> MK: interested to know if the keyboard section is an improvement
18:51:32 <MichielBijl> MK: the other thing I tried to do is be consistent if we talk about keys
18:53:35 <MichielBijl> JN: would you tab to a container?
18:53:43 <MichielBijl> JN: why not?
18:53:48 <MichielBijl> JN: you would tab to it.
18:54:01 <MichielBijl> MK: you would tab to an element that contains a menu
18:54:13 <MichielBijl> s/contains/activates
18:54:30 <MichielBijl> MK: if you put on menubar you could tab to a container
18:55:44 <Birkir> Birkir has joined #aria-apg
18:56:34 <MichielBijl> JN: I have a question about up/down arrow
18:57:49 <MichielBijl> JN: you wouldn't use up/down for first/last if it is vertical
18:57:52 <MichielBijl> MK: you could
18:59:08 <MichielBijl> MK: on the wrapping behaviour
19:00:23 <MichielBijl> MK: do we want to enforce it or make it optional
19:01:45 <MichielBijl> MK: really like to encourage this
19:01:58 <Birkir> This is highly desirable for large menus (arbitrarily saying 8 menus or more), but for small menus with few items, it is less important.
19:02:03 <MichielBijl> JN: why do we want this
19:02:35 <Birkir> I'd vote for "optional but nice", to use my invented technical term.
19:04:26 <MichielBijl> MK: *long story* it's easier if you go through a menu and make up your mind if you're on the last item
19:04:48 <MichielBijl> MK: you can just wrap to the first item
19:07:37 <MichielBijl> AA: so make wrapping optional?
19:17:29 <MichielBijl> MK: main bug in menu button, don't duplicate anything that is in menu
19:22:30 <jemma_ku> Thanks, Micheil. I sent you an email.
19:22:52 <jemma_ku> s/Micheil/Michiel
19:23:33 <jemma_ku> I have another meeting in 7 min
19:25:21 <MichielBijl> MK: thank you all, great feedback
19:26:54 <MichielBijl> AA: I'm seeing a bunch of other variations on setting properties.
19:27:28 <MichielBijl> BG: are you removing quotes?
19:27:43 <MichielBijl> MK: removing quotes and add “to“
19:28:36 <MichielBijl> MB: I like having the quotes, makes it easier
19:28:57 <MichielBijl> MK: we don't have it consistently.
19:29:18 <MichielBijl> MB: maybe later
19:29:19 <MichielBijl> Zakim, next item
19:29:19 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Review bug fixes for menubutton design pattern https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg_menuPattern/practices/aria-practices.html" taken up [from jamesn]
19:29:34 <MichielBijl> Zakim, next item
19:29:34 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, MichielBijl
19:29:38 <MichielBijl> Zakim, next item
19:29:38 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, MichielBijl
19:29:48 <MichielBijl> Zakim, close item
19:29:48 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close item', MichielBijl
19:29:50 <MichielBijl> Zakim, next item
19:29:50 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, MichielBijl
19:30:13 <MichielBijl> NOTE: covered in previous discussion
19:30:13 <MichielBijl> Zakim, next item
19:30:13 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, MichielBijl
19:30:39 <mck> zakim, take agendum item 5
19:30:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take agendum item 5', mck
19:30:53 <mck> zakim, take up agendum item 5
19:30:53 <Zakim> 'item\ 5' does not match any agenda item, mck
19:31:10 <MichielBijl> Zakim, take up item 5
19:31:10 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Review revised descriptive text for example of mixed checkbox https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html" taken up [from jamesn]
19:31:13 <MichielBijl> Zakim, take up item 5
19:31:13 <MichielBijl> Zakim, next item
19:31:14 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Review revised descriptive text for example of mixed checkbox https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html" taken up [from jamesn]
19:31:14 <Zakim> agendum 5 was just opened, MichielBijl
19:31:16 <MichielBijl> Zakim, next item
19:31:16 <Zakim> agendum 5 was just opened, MichielBijl
19:31:30 <jemma_ku> take up item agenda 5
19:32:06 <mck> TOPIC: Review revised descriptive text for example of mixed checkbox
19:32:23 <mck> https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html
19:33:22 <MichielBijl> MK: semantics typo in first sentence
19:33:29 <MichielBijl> JK: I'll fix it
19:34:00 <MichielBijl> MK: third bullet “This set of example” should be “This set of examples”
19:36:47 <MichielBijl> MK: how come there are square brackets around role=checkbox?
19:37:05 <MichielBijl> MB: only makes sense if you're talking about CSS selectors; which we are not
19:45:29 <jemma_ku> michiel, we don't hear you
19:45:45 <jemma_ku> you are on mute
19:45:54 <mck> One way to write it: The <code>div</code> element with role <code>checkbox</code>
19:48:18 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:48:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/30-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
19:49:19 <MichielBijl> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
19:49:37 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:49:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/30-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl