18:03:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
18:03:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/11/09-aria-apg-irc
18:03:41 <LJWatson> Meeting: ARIA APG meeting
18:03:50 <LJWatson> Chair: Matt
18:03:57 <LJWatson> present+ LJWatson
18:04:05 <LJWatson> present+ Matt King
18:04:09 <mck> mck has joined #aria-apg
18:04:40 <annabbott> present+ AnnAbbott
18:04:48 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
18:04:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/09-aria-apg-minutes.html LJWatson
18:04:57 <LJWatson> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
18:04:57 <mck> Present+ matt_king
18:05:02 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
18:05:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/09-aria-apg-minutes.html LJWatson
18:05:38 <mck> zakim, clear agenda
18:05:38 <Zakim> agenda cleared
18:08:18 <IanPouncey1> Present+ IanPouncey
18:08:23 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria-apg
18:09:48 <Jemma_Ku> Jemma_Ku has joined #aria-apg
18:09:57 <jongund> present+ jongund
18:10:44 <jongund> rrsagent present+ jongund
18:11:36 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria-apg
18:11:40 <Jemma_Ku> present+ jemmaku
18:11:48 <mck> Agenda+ Pattern work status page update https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status
18:11:50 <mck> Agenda+ Example template and example coding practices update
18:11:51 <mck> Agenda+ Landmark navigation pattern review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#landmarks
18:12:05 <jongund> rrsagent present
18:12:08 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
18:15:11 <annabbott> scribe: AnnAbbott
18:15:56 <annabbott> zakim, take up agenda item 1
18:15:56 <Zakim> 'item\ 1' does not match any agenda item, annabbott
18:16:15 <annabbott> zakim, next agenda item
18:16:15 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, annabbott
18:16:24 <mck> q?
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18:16:37 <mck> ack Jemma
18:16:41 <mck> q?
18:16:55 <mck> zakim, take up next agenda item
18:16:55 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Pattern work status page update https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status" taken up [from mck]
18:16:57 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, makeminutes
18:16:57 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'makeminutes', MichielBijl.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:17:01 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:17:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/09-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
18:17:18 <MichielBijl> present+ Michiel_Bijl
18:19:03 <annabbott> Matt - none to tick off
18:19:31 <MichielBijl> present- Matt King matt_king
18:19:36 <MichielBijl> present+ Matt_King
18:19:43 <annabbott> Jemma: done with checkbox 3 example
18:19:59 <annabbott> Jon: waiting for it to be integrated into trunk
18:20:55 <Jemma_Ku> this is pull request https://github.com/a11ydoer/aria/commit/1c4d8fcbde1624c6b12d9272873e937e34f
18:22:30 <Jemma_Ku> https://cdn.rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html\
18:22:33 <Jemma_Ku> https://cdn.rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html
18:23:34 <annabbott> Matt: example 3 is mixed state checkbox
18:23:58 <mck> Typo in following:
18:24:01 <mck> • Changing the state of the standard checkboxes will update the state fo the ARIA mixed checkbox.
18:27:31 <annabbott> Matt: NVDA doesn't read the individual labels, only the grouping label
18:27:49 <annabbott> when tabbing
18:27:50 <jemma> jemma has joined #aria-apg
18:28:02 <jemma> sorry my pc died.
18:28:10 <jemma> relogging in
18:28:54 <annabbott> Matt: JAWS reads grouping label first when arrowing followed by individual label
18:30:14 <annabbott> Matt: tabbing or X (special key) JAWS reads individual label followed by grouping label
18:30:52 <annabbott> Jon: ID refs are not in source code
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18:32:14 <Birkir> Birkir has joined #aria-apg
18:32:19 <annabbott> Jon: should spell out ID refs
18:33:48 <annabbott> Jon: should not provide multiple labeling techniques
18:34:48 <Birkir> condaments taste better when they are in a fieldset.
18:37:32 <Birkir> Should we run the code through the html5 validator?
18:42:33 <annabbott> Jon: should be careful if HTML spec isn't final yet
18:44:53 <MichielBijl> scribe: MichielBijl
18:46:07 <annabbott> ok Michiel!
18:46:19 <MichielBijl> bgaraventa1979: I'm for the aria solutions, because we can point people at one spec.
18:46:30 <MichielBijl> mck: so not the fieldset idea?
18:46:35 <MichielBijl> bgaraventa1979: yeah for now
18:47:11 <MichielBijl> IanPouncey: I'm fine with that, if it's good enough.
18:48:37 <MichielBijl> Jon: what does the ARIA 5.1 spec say?
18:48:48 <MichielBijl> mck: you mean what it says in the mapping guide?
18:49:01 <MichielBijl> jongund: how stable is that document?
18:49:22 <LJWatson> HTML5.1 ARIA: http://www.w3.org/TR/html-aria/
18:49:28 <MichielBijl> mck: I don't know, exspect it as we go through there would be adjustments
18:49:36 <MichielBijl> jongund: I meant fundamental changes
18:50:43 <MichielBijl> LJWatson: what are we looking for in the mapping that would mix things up?
18:51:04 <MichielBijl> LJWatson: the a11y name calculation looks at the a11y tree
18:51:23 <MichielBijl> mck: there is nothing that says it would be dependent on the content
18:53:44 <jongund> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-aam-1.0/
18:55:02 <jongund> http://www.w3.org/TR/accname-aam-1.1/
18:56:47 <LJWatson> HTML checked state test cases http://ljwatson.github.io/test-cases/checked-state/case.html
19:01:15 <MichielBijl> mck: you're saying that in firefox the mixed state is not supported at all?
19:01:25 <MichielBijl> mck: native windows checkboxes do
19:01:44 <MichielBijl> mck: let's make a descission
19:02:08 <MichielBijl> mck: our initial goal was to show aria usage
19:02:21 <MichielBijl> mck: we have three examples that are all aria
19:03:02 <MichielBijl> mck: the only thing that got us in this discussion was the labeling technique
19:03:22 <MichielBijl> mck: like the idea to use fieldset and legend for the labelling technique
19:03:43 <MichielBijl> mck: with minimal amount of aria scripting
19:03:57 <MichielBijl> mck: and still get their three state checkbox
19:04:38 <MichielBijl> mck: any objections?
19:04:51 <MichielBijl> mck: no objection, jemma can you make the change?
19:10:34 <jongund> I have to go
19:11:44 <Birkir> In ARIA 1.0 aria-checked is actually not allowed on the checkbox role, this was fixed in ARIA 1.1, one of my favorite oddities.
19:12:13 <Birkir> html label applied to a simulated form field sod not appear to work, at least with Jaws in IE/FF,
19:12:48 <Birkir> This code does not announce as expected (Jaws guesses label from nearest paragraph, not fromt he associated label): <label for="ch1">Are you able to vote?</label> <p>Are you a man or a mouse?</p> <span role="checkbox" aria-checked="false" id="ch1"></span>
19:13:31 <MichielBijl> http://dir.agosto.nl/accessibility/examples/Alert/index.html
19:13:51 <MichielBijl> mck: Michiel you had an alert example?
19:13:56 <MichielBijl> MichielBijl: correct
19:14:21 <MichielBijl> MichielBijl: it shows an alert after two seconds
19:22:21 <jemma> this is the link to example.js file which outputs html code to the template page.
19:22:22 <jemma> https://github.com/a11ydoer/practices/blob/master/examples/js/examples.js
19:28:29 <jemma> https://github.com/a11ydoer/aria/blob/master/practices/examples/js/examples.js
19:28:40 <MichielBijl> Here is the alert example PR: https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/105
19:29:38 <jemma> https://github.com/w3c/aria/tree/master/practices/examples/js
19:34:01 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/98
19:35:20 <MichielBijl> 안녕하세요
19:35:47 <jemma> 안녕
19:37:02 <LJWatson> LJWatson has left #aria-apg
19:37:07 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:37:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/09-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
19:38:39 <MichielBijl> scribeOptions: -final