16:59:22 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:59:22 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-ua-irc 16:59:24 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:59:24 Zakim has joined #ua 16:59:26 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:59:26 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 16:59:27 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:59:27 Date: 29 October 2015 17:01:27 rrsagent, set logs public 17:01:30 Greg has joined #ua 17:07:00 Kim has joined #ua 17:07:39 Eric has joined #ua 17:07:43 present: Jim, Jeanne, Eric, Kim 17:08:08 present+ Greg 17:13:19 topic: 3.2.2 Describe Accessibility Features 17:13:51 http://w3c.github.io/UAAG-Implementations/Implementations-by-feature 17:15:23 gl: this is tough to test or come up with implementation. need a list of all UAAG features 17:18:59 eh: what does it mean to be explained in the interface? 17:19:27 ... is the label enough? what is the minimal amount of information? 17:20:14 kp: point out the structure. here is help page, keyboard shortcut page, settings page. would that be enough. 17:21:36 Firefox Documentation: 17:21:37 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/firefox/get-started 17:21:39 Firefox Keyboard Shortcuts list: 17:21:40 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/keyboard-shortcuts-perform-firefox-tasks-quickly?redirectlocale=en-US&as=u&redirectslug=Keyboard+shortcuts&utm_source=inproduct#w_current-page 17:22:35 chrome documentation: 17:22:37 https://support.google.com/chrome/?p=help&ctx=menu#topic=3227046 17:22:49 chrome keyboard shortcuts: 17:23:19 https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/157179?hl=en 17:23:59 gl: if documentation meets 3.2.3 then it will meet 3.2.2 17:24:59 gl: still a large task. There are lots of features to test 17:25:18 Note: we did not test every feature to document implementation 17:25:41 Scriibe: allanj 17:25:47 scribe: allanj 17:26:06 s/Scriibe: allanj/ 17:27:19 RESOLUTION: for 3.2.2 and 3.2.3 17:27:20 Note: we did not test every feature to document implementation 17:27:22 Firefox Documentation: 17:27:23 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/firefox/get-started 17:27:25 Firefox Keyboard Shortcuts list: 17:27:26 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/keyboard-shortcuts-perform-firefox-tasks-quickly?redirectlocale=en-US&as=u&redirectslug=Keyboard+shortcuts&utm_source=inproduct#w_current-page 17:27:28 chrome documentation: 17:27:29 https://support.google.com/chrome/?p=help&ctx=menu#topic=3227046 17:27:31 chrome keyboard shortcuts: 17:27:32 https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/157179?hl=en 17:28:11 topic: 3.2.4 Changes Between Versions: 17:30:02 ja: UAs used to do this, now with auto updates perhaps they don't provide feature changes as much? 17:31:21 chrome: log of all revisions by version http://build.chromium.org/f/chromium/perf/dashboard/ui/changelog.html?url=/trunk/src&range=44202:43900&mode=html 17:32:29 http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/ 17:32:39 Firefox changelogs for each version: 17:32:41 https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/releases/ 17:34:01 RESOLUTION: for 3.2.4 17:34:03 chrome: log of all revisions by version 17:34:04 http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/ 17:34:06 Firefox changelogs for each version: 17:34:07 https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/releases/ 17:34:27 topic: 3.2.5 Centralized View: 17:36:49 Documentation of accessibility features in Firefox 17:36:50 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/accessibility-features-firefox-make-firefox-and-we 17:37:00 chrome: accessibility features for all products (chrome listed on the page) 17:37:03 https://www.google.com/accessibility/all-products-features.html 17:37:43 RESOLUTION: 17:37:45 Documentation of accessibility features in Firefox 17:37:46 https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/accessibility-features-firefox-make-firefox-and-we 17:37:48 chrome accessibility features for all products (chrome listed on the page) 17:37:49 https://www.google.com/accessibility/all-products-features.html 17:39:46 kp: apple missing stuff...thinks it is on the individual machine, no on the web. 17:40:15 ... things that apply to the machine also apply to all applications 17:41:31 gl: but there are unique accessibility features in safari that are not documented (or we can't find it) 17:41:39 topic: 3.3.1 Avoid Unpredictable Focus: 17:45:20 gl: autofocus move in form fields (ssn, or phone) 17:45:37 kp: many cases on websites that disrupt interaction 17:47:24 can block autofocus with Greasemonkey 17:56:19 RESOLUTION: 3.3.1 greasemonkey or something similar for IE, Chrome, Safari, FF is a possible solution. No other implementation or extensions were found. 17:56:50 topic: 4.1.1 Support Platform Accessibility Services: 17:58:21 RESOLUTION: Chrome, IE, Firefox, Safari do this 17:58:35 topic: 4.1.2 Expose Basic Properties 18:01:18 what about selection? 18:01:53 screen readers know when something is selected. but can't find any information in windows Inspect tool about selection 18:03:36 we are sure about all but 'selection', the browser knows what is selected because you can copy from a browser 18:05:33 selection is covered in accessibility mapping http://www.w3.org/TR/core-aam-1.1/#mapping_events_selection 18:07:08 though this is selection from a menu item, it is not selection of text in a paragraph 18:08:22 RESOLUTION: 4.1.2 Chrome, IE, Firefox, Safari support all except selection. Need further investigation on selection 18:08:34 topic: 4.1.3 Provide Equivalent Accessible Alternatives: 18:11:07 gl: first example in reference document is alternative way of doing something, not an alternative to the API 18:11:22 ... the second example is better 18:18:38 gl: platform AAPI is not about drag and drop, providing an alternative way of doing the same task is a good thing, but does not apply to AAPI. the SC is poorly worded. The intent provides much better explanation, but seems unrelated to AApi 18:19:15 ... don't have a real life example, of a UI element not supporting AAPI, and the browser provided a work around 18:23:08 gl: when a browser can't provide programmatic access to an interface control, it must provide another method method of access. 18:23:55 ja: anything on mobile? 18:24:34 kp: most things...no selection, no controls 18:26:24 ... siri is starting to add some functionality, like start an application. but backspace 3 characters...no, must say backspace 3 separate times. 18:28:10 rrsagent, make minutes 18:28:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:28:34 rrsagent, set logs public 18:28:56 chair: Jim 18:30:50 Example: A web browser [Internet Explorer] allows the user to choose default colors for text, background, and so forth, using a color picker control in which the user can click on any pixel in a field of overlapping gradients. This control cannot be mapped to any standard control, and thus cannot be easily exposed through MSAA or similar accessibility platform services. Therefore screenreaders and 18:30:51 other assistive technology cannot explain the control to the user nor facilitate its use. To make the same functionality available to a wider range of users, the same dialog box that displays the color picker also allows the user to see and edit numeric values for hue, saturation, luminosity, etc. 18:32:18 gl: its there for graphic designers, but helps people with disabilities...a win, win 18:40:30 RESOLUTION: 4.1.3 if the user agent has no custom controls it passes by default. 18:41:40 That is, no custom controls that cannot be mapped to one or more standard controls, and thus cannot be exposed through the platform accessibility API (e.g. a gradient color picker cannot be exposed through MSAA). 18:43:42 IE uses a gradient color picker, so 4.1.3 requires it to provide an alternative, and it does so with a set of numeric fields. Firefox, on the other hand, uses a set of discrete color buttons for choosing color, which can easily be exposed through the platform accessibility API, and therefore is an N/A for 4.1.3 (at least for this particular set of controls). 18:44:22 rrsagent, make minutes 18:44:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:46:09 s/must say backspace 3 separate times/can't say backspace at all, 18:46:52 rrsagent, make minutes 18:46:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:47:00 Accidentally dropped off when trying to unmute. Take care! 18:48:51 chair: jim 18:48:54 rrsagent, make minutes 18:48:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-ua-minutes.html allanj 19:32:06 Zakim has left #ua