14:06:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:06:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/28-lvtf-irc
14:06:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:06:37 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #lvtf
14:06:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:06:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:06:40 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:06:40 <trackbot> Date: 28 October 2015
14:07:12 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
14:07:20 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
14:07:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/28-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
14:07:47 <allanj> chair: Jim and Andrew
14:08:01 <allanj> present+
14:09:13 <allanj> Agenda+ scribe
14:09:15 <allanj> Agenda+ report on User Stories clean up
14:09:16 <allanj>    "User Stories" morphed into succinct "User issues"/"User experience problems"
14:09:18 <allanj> Agenda+ report on Wayne Ontology
14:09:19 <allanj> Agenda+ discuss Work_topics and User_Stories overlap
14:09:36 <jeanne> jeanne has left #lvtf
14:10:18 <allanj> agenda+ Low Vision User Requirements
14:12:37 <laura> laura has joined #lvtf
14:17:47 <shawn> shawn has joined #lvtf
14:18:27 <shawn> shawn has changed the topic to: 
14:19:25 <shawn> shawn has changed the topic to: WebEx (*new*) https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m2486867b0c5117ca58dffc7aee66ca29    password: lvtfnow
14:25:29 <shawn> trackbot, start meeting
14:25:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:25:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:25:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:25:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:25:34 <trackbot> Date: 28 October 2015
14:25:37 <shawn> zakim, clear agenda
14:25:37 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:25:42 <shawn> present:
14:26:40 <shawn> present+ Shawn
14:27:53 <shawn> present+ Bruce
14:27:57 <shawn> present+ Andrew
14:30:39 <allanj> Agenda+ scribe
14:30:40 <allanj> Agenda+ report on User Stories clean up
14:30:42 <allanj>    "User Stories" morphed into succinct "User issues"/"User experience problems"
14:30:43 <allanj> Agenda+ report on Wayne Ontology
14:30:45 <allanj> Agenda+ discuss Work_topics and User_Stories overlap
14:31:01 <allanj> agenda+ low vision requirements
14:31:04 <Bruce_Bailey> Bruce_Bailey has joined #lvtf
14:31:41 <shawn> Present+ Alan
14:31:45 <shawn> Present+ Jim
14:32:06 <Bruce_Bailey> Present+ Bruce_Bailey
14:32:23 <shawn> Present+ Charles
14:32:31 <shawn> Present+ Laura
14:33:23 <ChuckOp> ChuckOp has joined #lvtf
14:33:36 <ChuckOp> scrib: chuckop
14:33:45 <ChuckOp> scribe: chuckop
14:34:00 <allanj> close item 1
14:34:24 <AWK> AWK has joined #lvtf
14:34:37 <shawn> present+ Jon
14:35:35 <AWK> +AWK
14:35:59 <ChuckOp> take up next item
14:36:19 <shawn> Present- Charles
14:36:25 <shawn> Present+ Chuck
14:36:42 <shawn> present+ Wayne
14:37:36 <AWK> Discussing this page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/User_stories_-_use_cases
14:37:47 <ChuckOp> Jim did clean up on the user stories use cases page
14:38:11 <Bruce_Bailey> q+ to ask about UC cites
14:38:46 <ChuckOp> Jim encourages others to clean up, add to, and generally improve the use cases
14:39:15 <ChuckOp> Allan also did some additions
14:39:27 <ChuckOp> Bruce notes that the use cases are looking better
14:39:29 <shawn> ack bruce
14:39:29 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey, you wanted to ask about UC cites
14:39:42 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #LVTF
14:40:02 <Bruce_Bailey> q-
14:41:21 <ChuckOp> take up next item
14:41:45 <Wayne> wayne+
14:41:47 <ChuckOp> present+ Erich
14:41:50 <allanj> close item 2
14:41:52 <shawn> present+ Erich
14:42:07 <Erich> Erich has joined #lvtf
14:42:24 <allanj> ontology http://nosetothepage.org/WCAG/LVEffects_files/Dictionary.html
14:43:28 <ChuckOp> Wayne:  Created ontology/dictionary page located at http://nosetothepage.org/WCAG/LVEffects_files/Dictionary.html
14:44:51 <ChuckOp> Wayne:  symptoms fall into two categories
14:45:54 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #lvtf
14:46:24 <jon_avila> q+
14:47:06 <ChuckOp> Wayne:  our use cases will turn into our lists (of requirements? of tasks?)
14:47:11 <shawn> ack jon
14:47:39 <ChuckOp> John:  preference is not to focus not on medical model of low vision, but rather on the functional barriers.
14:47:59 <ChuckOp> John:  the problem isn't the condition, but that the content isn't adaptable
14:48:04 <shawn> + 1 to content & tools is the problem, not the user
14:48:55 <ChuckOp> Wayne:  general agreement
14:49:11 <AWK> q+
14:49:25 <jon_avila> q-
14:49:29 <ChuckOp> Jon:  Preference to ensure our wiki and notes reflect the functional barriers
14:49:36 <allanj> +1 user is not the problem
14:50:22 <shawn> +1 to medical model OK in wiki for data analysis but not in final docs
14:50:25 <shawn> ack awk
14:50:48 <jon_avila> great
14:50:50 <ChuckOp> Andrew: Our intent is to have an appendix that references medical terminology to help with mapping
14:51:17 <ChuckOp> Andrew:  Not to focus on the medical diagnoses
14:51:27 <jon_avila> thanks
14:51:47 <jon_avila> Yes, the info is very good.
14:52:08 <ChuckOp> Laura:  the appendix and mapping can be very useful
14:52:33 <ChuckOp> jim:  thanks wayne for his work and encourages others to contribute to it.
14:52:35 <shawn> agenda?
14:53:02 <ChuckOp> close item 3
14:53:28 <ChuckOp> Shawn:  Thinks ChuckOp is best scribe evah!
14:54:36 <ChuckOp> Jim:  Shawn did amazing work on Low Vision requirements and would like to discuss that now
14:54:41 <ChuckOp> take up item 5
14:54:43 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Low_Vision_User_Requirements
14:57:38 <ChuckOp> Shawn:  What if we started presenting actual user requirements?  Went through use cases and started translating them into requirements with categories, with handles and notes.
14:58:02 <ChuckOp> Shawn:  First pass, not polished, use as a starting point
14:58:55 <ChuckOp> Jim:  Was reading the requirements, calls it an amazing amount of work.
14:59:43 <ChuckOp> Jim:  We can edit and add to the requirements since it is in a wiki
15:00:07 <ChuckOp> Shawn:  Notes difficulty of editing and using wiki markup
15:00:38 <jon_avila> Yes, great stuff!
15:01:27 <laura> Excellent work, Shawn.
15:01:53 <jon_avila> I wonder if it would help to mark some of these as scoped to authored content or user agent
15:02:10 <ChuckOp> Jim:  Shawn, how did you come up with categories?
15:02:44 <allanj> Shawn's TAdER work - http://www.tader.info/index.html
15:02:58 <allanj> (Text Adaptability is Essential for Reading)
15:03:07 <ChuckOp> Shawn:  I added some categories based on information in the use cases and user stories.  Wondered about organizing according to the high level overview, might need sub-categories.
15:04:14 <ChuckOp> Shawn:  Categories are a bucketing system, Handle is a one-word (ideally) title.
15:04:32 <allanj> I prefer table
15:04:37 <ChuckOp> Shawn:  What's better; tables or paragraphs?
15:04:46 <ChuckOp> Jim:  I like the table
15:06:51 <ChuckOp> Discussion between Jim and Shawn regarding wording of "user can..."
15:07:54 <Wayne> q+
15:09:16 <shawn> ack w
15:09:17 <allanj> looking at "Related information is in close proximity. " or  "user can choose to have related information in close proximity to viewport"
15:09:34 <allanj> content developer vs browser developer
15:09:34 <ChuckOp> Wayne:  We have reps from WAI UA and CA groups.  We need to separate
15:09:36 <shawn> q+
15:09:53 <ChuckOp> Jon:  Some of these can be both.  Content zooming for example.
15:09:54 <allanj> s/CA/GL
15:09:58 <ChuckOp> Shawn:  Good point
15:10:10 <ChuckOp> Thanks Allan
15:11:02 <allanj> shawn: Say what users need...then say what content folks can do, and what browser folks can do
15:13:08 <allanj> what the content authors or browsers do are solutions to user needs
15:13:37 <allanj> + 1 Focus: User needs!!
15:13:46 <ChuckOp> Shawn:  Eventually we need to do the breakout that Jim references, but not to do it too early.  Focus on getting the first draft out first (of user requirements)
15:16:01 <ChuckOp> Shawn:  The work that everyone did (Jim, et al) on use cases really helped in drafting requirements.
15:16:39 <jon_avila> q+
15:16:49 <allanj> it takes a working group...
15:17:13 <shawn> ack shawn
15:17:29 <shawn> ack jon
15:17:34 <Bruce_Bailey> Shawn asking about " Icon fonts that when combined with custom fonts are browser/AT combinations like ZoomText and Firefox change to squares and are unrecognizable."
15:19:31 <Bruce_Bailey> Bruce asked about "WingDings" but Andrew says situation can be more complex than that.
15:20:10 <ChuckOp> Jon:  discussion of symbol fonts and availability of fonts when working with low vision tools
15:20:42 <shawn> [ eowg tried using icons fonts and gave up and used SVG ]
15:20:48 <AWK> Of interest for icon fonts: https://www.filamentgroup.com/lab/bulletproof_icon_fonts.html
15:21:40 <ChuckOp> Jon:  ARIA labels can be used to provide textual context to symbols
15:22:11 <ChuckOp> ?:  Not easily accessible to keyboard users
15:22:38 <Bruce_Bailey> Bruce thanks Andrew for the example.  Here is one that might be related:  https://css-tricks.com/examples/IconFont/
15:23:04 <ChuckOp> Jim:  How would names/description be made available for symbol-based characters
15:23:33 <ChuckOp> Andrew:  Other user groups can benefit from icon-based fonts
15:24:05 <shawn> s/ [ eowg tried using icons fonts and gave up and used SVG ]/
15:25:18 <allanj> wayne: high contrast icon font available?
15:26:01 <shawn> q+
15:26:07 <shawn> ack me
15:26:11 <jon_avila> q?
15:26:41 <ChuckOp> Shawn:  One of the issues:  if we mess up and overlap editing can be problematic.
15:27:00 <ChuckOp> Jim:  Should we do editing over the mailing list and send issues to Shawn for editing?
15:27:20 <ChuckOp> Shawn:  Is okay with being the primary editor for the time being.
15:27:54 <ChuckOp> Jim:  Send issues and discussion to the mailing list, and Shawn will incorporate into the user requirements page
15:28:04 <ChuckOp> Jim:  Really excited and thanks Shawn
15:28:09 <laura> Thanks everyone.
15:28:16 <shawn> good team work, folks!
15:31:04 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
15:31:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/28-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
15:31:47 <allanj> zakim, please part
15:31:47 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Shawn, Bruce, Andrew, Alan, Jim, Bruce_Bailey, Charles, Laura, Jon, AWK, Chuck, Wayne, Erich
15:31:47 <Zakim> Zakim has left #lvtf
15:31:52 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
15:31:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/28-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
15:32:05 <allanj> rrsagent, please part
15:32:05 <RRSAgent> I see no action items