01:36:33 RRSAgent has joined #htmlcue 01:36:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/28-htmlcue-irc 01:36:40 rrsagent, make logs public 01:36:46 Present+ nigel 01:36:48 chair: nigel 01:40:28 akitsugu has joined #htmlcue 01:40:52 jcdufourd has joined #htmlcue 01:41:06 Yamane has joined #htmlcue 01:42:00 giuseppe has joined #htmlcue 01:43:02 hober has joined #htmlcue 01:43:13 preent +hober 01:43:21 s/preent/present/ 01:43:46 present +hober 01:44:08 Present+ Jean-Claude_Dufourd 01:44:43 gmandyam has joined #htmlcue 01:45:27 JP_Abello has joined #htmlcue 01:45:41 Giri Mandyam, Qualcomm, joining HTMLCue breakout session 01:47:33 present+ giuseppe 01:47:36 cribe: giuseppe 01:47:39 scribe: giuseppe 01:47:46 kinjim has joined #htmlcue 01:47:49 present+ JP Abello 01:47:57 present+ Giri Mandyam 01:47:57 Nigel: in the TTWG we are looking at two formats 01:48:01 kurosawa has joined #htmlcue 01:48:02 TTML and WebVTT 01:48:10 present+ Kurosawa 01:48:25 present+ Taketoshi Yamane 01:48:33 present+ Kinji Matsumura 01:48:38 present+ Akitsugu Baba 01:48:39 for webvtt we have a cue, with in/out and style 01:48:44 when we look at other formats 01:48:54 we are asking ourselves how we implement them in the rbrowser 01:49:26 dash.js is trying to use texttrackcue to support other tt formats 01:49:47 but to do that you need to overload the texttrackcue interface 01:49:59 because that is not designed to handle something else then webvtt 01:51:38 the question is why do we need a specific vtt cue, can we have a more generic cue mechanism that can support more formats 01:51:48 for example can we have an html cue 01:51:54 that only have in/out and an html payload 01:52:13 that the browser can attach that html payload on in/out 01:52:30 or better attach on in, remove on out 01:53:56 the idea with texttrack is to separate matadata in different tracks 01:54:20 in ttml structure mixes different things in one format (text and style and metadata) 01:54:32 status of this is that htmlcue is an idea 01:54:41 ttwg presented the idea to the whatwg 01:54:53 the feedback was there could be some unintended consequences 01:55:14 example what happens if the html contains a script 01:55:19 or what happens to the browser context 01:55:35 so I'm interested to discuss these issues and how to appraoch the problem 01:56:45 giuseppe: is the main goal here to support ttml? 01:57:19 nigel: yes mainly, but not only 01:58:01 ttml could be one source of information for the htmlcue track 01:58:32 simon: one issue with this 01:58:43 is security, if you allow all html in the htmlcue 01:58:54 subtitles usually don't have scripting 01:59:22 the other issue is if we assume thatw e need to subset html, does it still support the use cases you want to address 01:59:38 currently with wbvtt you can use a metadata track 01:59:47 and you can use javascript and render it 02:00:04 and there you don't have the security problem 02:00:49 why can't you use the webvtt metadata track and expose ttml then render in the page? 02:01:05 giri: the problem is, the html spec allows for 250ms delay 02:01:23 ... and this might be an issue for things like subtitles 02:01:34 kinjim_ has joined #htmlcue 02:01:49 giuseppe: does it mean we need a high priority cue? 02:02:35 simon: are you sure this delay of 250ms apply to the cues? 02:03:31 (room checking the spec) 02:04:55 nigel: so the requirement is that accuracy has to be greater then 250ms 02:05:25 simon: the 250ms is only for the timesupdate 02:05:47 but should not apply to the cues 02:07:55 jc: cyril has done a demo using the events 02:10:45 x1: the secureity issue here i major 02:11:11 maybe is better to look at extending the current api 02:12:07 giri: what about the idea of using a sandbox 02:12:44 nigel: you could block any script and maybe threat it like an iframe 02:15:30 simon: the metadata kind is designed to support this use case 02:17:48 xxx: could there be a problem of performance, is the html is too complex? 02:19:34 jc: maybe you can do some testing and show if there is really a performance problem, and if you really need some htmlcue 02:22:01 nigel: so the proposed model is to use existing track cue with metadata kind, although is not metadata, and then render in javascript 02:24:07 xxx: there are of course some problems 02:24:21 for example the browse might need to expose the subtitles preferences 02:24:39 so that the js renderer know what to do 02:25:35 the other problem is that you cannot use the defaul player controller 02:26:01 but if you are doing this custom subtitlles handling you can probably build your custom controls as well 02:29:04 giri: what happens if kind is set to something other then the allowed values 02:29:10 simon: I think it defaul to subtitles 02:29:52 xxx: the question is still, wouldn't be better to have some easier way to support this 02:31:50 also, it it's easier for people to transalte from ttml to html then to vtt 02:32:07 s/xxx/andreas 02:34:13 because for webvtt you need to know both the sintax but also the renderin model that is different 02:36:18 all: discussion about if it's feasible to make a subset of html suitable for this htmlcue 02:36:40 ... some people concerned that subsetting html has been done before and always failed 02:36:47 we should not try to do it again 02:37:04 nigel: isn't this very similar to sandboxing? 02:40:06 simon: one of the reason I think this si different, is because there is no way to disable fetching external resources, and I think we need that 02:40:36 nigel: why should we do that, images might be needed 02:43:01 simon: but then you might have a privacy resource 02:43:10 s/resource/issue/ 02:44:02 e.g. an external resource/server could now monitor videoplayout events, monitor what you watch 02:44:15 something that was not possible before (only the internal scripting of the page could do it) 02:47:20 xxx: the image issue could be solved using data: ruls 02:47:34 s/ruls/urls/ 02:52:51 action: fiel a feature request to expose user preferences about subtitles to the page 02:53:38 s/fiel/file/ 02:57:33 action: work on a prototype using the metadata kind for texttrack and to try and highlight limitation and issues 03:02:10 rrsagent, make minutes 03:02:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/28-htmlcue-minutes.html nigel 03:03:29 Meeting: HTMLCue breakout, TPAC 2015 03:03:30 rrsagent, make minutes 03:03:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/28-htmlcue-minutes.html nigel 03:04:09 Present+ glenn_adams, jerry_smith 03:04:10 rrsagent, make minutes 03:04:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/28-htmlcue-minutes.html nigel 03:11:01 nigel has joined #htmlcue 03:18:33 nigel has joined #htmlcue 03:19:09 nigel has joined #htmlcue 04:29:33 nigel has joined #htmlcue 04:34:42 kurosawa has joined #htmlcue 04:35:21 kurosawa has left #htmlcue 04:35:42 akitsugu has joined #htmlcue 05:34:56 nigel has joined #htmlcue 05:50:43 nigel has joined #htmlcue 06:43:31 nigel has joined #htmlcue 07:07:00 nigel has joined #htmlcue 07:07:48 akitsugu has joined #htmlcue 08:14:33 nigel has joined #htmlcue 08:16:50 akitsugu has joined #htmlcue