23:19:34 RRSAgent has joined #webtv 23:19:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/25-webtv-irc 23:19:46 kinjim has joined #webtv 23:20:37 rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight 23:21:37 correii has joined #webtv 23:25:01 present+ Yosuke 23:25:19 sangwhan has joined #webtv 23:28:35 atai has joined #webtv 23:28:49 Akitsugu_Baba has joined #webtv 23:30:10 correii_ has joined #webtv 23:31:52 masato has joined #webtv 23:32:08 olivier has joined #webtv 23:32:14 tidoust2 has joined #webtv 23:32:44 nigel has joined #webtv 23:34:09 harada has joined #webtv 23:34:22 ama has joined #webtv 23:34:55 maitou has joined #webtv 23:34:59 shimizu3 has joined #webtv 23:35:15 kinjim has joined #webtv 23:35:35 akitsugu has joined #webtv 23:36:17 RRSAgent, makes logs public 23:36:17 I'm logging. I don't understand 'makes logs public', tidoust2. Try /msg RRSAgent help 23:36:23 RRSAgent, make logs public 23:37:26 Topic: Web and TV IG F2F - TPAC 2015 23:37:37 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Face-to-face_meeting_during_TPAC_2015#Agenda_Monday_October_26_.28tentative.29 23:38:40 oonishi has joined #webtv 23:39:06 hfujisawa has joined #webtv 23:39:32 h-takata has joined #webtv 23:40:09 akitsugu has joined #webtv 23:40:10 kinjim has left #webtv 23:40:24 ToddGehring has joined #webtv 23:40:31 kinjim_ has joined #webtv 23:41:10 hfujisawa has joined #webtv 23:41:11 Yusuke has joined #webtv 23:42:04 maehama has joined #webtv 23:42:29 Masa has joined #webtv 23:43:15 shimizu3_ has joined #webtv 23:43:35 joe has joined #webtv 23:44:17 Sangjo has joined #webtv 23:44:30 shoko has joined #webtv 23:44:55 satoshin has joined #webtv 23:45:06 fukatsu has joined #webtv 23:45:34 hfujisawa has joined #webtv 23:45:36 hfujisawa has joined #webtv 23:47:14 Louay has joined #webtv 23:48:32 tomoyuki has joined #webtv 23:48:33 kunio has joined #webtv 23:49:17 correii has joined #webtv 23:49:22 kinjim has joined #webtv 23:49:50 kaz has joined #webtv 23:50:18 Mark: Let's get started. 23:50:43 h-takata has joined #webtv 23:50:50 sugihara has joined #webtv 23:50:57 [Roll call] 23:52:05 kinjim has joined #webtv 23:52:14 Paul_Higgs has joined #webtv 23:54:28 Dewa has joined #webtv 23:55:30 kiyoshi has joined #webtv 23:55:37 giuseppe has joined #webtv 23:55:42 kinjim has joined #webtv 23:55:59 Youngsun has joined #webtv 23:56:07 cpn has joined #webtv 23:56:16 observers sitting in the back are welcome to move and seat at the table, there are many empty seats as you can see 23:56:42 mdadas has joined #webtv 23:56:51 scribe: Francois 23:56:55 scribenick: tidoust 23:57:01 Topic: Web and TV IG intro 23:57:46 Mark_Vickers: [presenting Web and TV IG charter, scope, what the group does, liaisons with external organizations]. 23:58:02 yfunahas has joined #webtv 23:58:05 ... The group analyzes gaps but does not develop specs. 23:58:08 jeff has joined #webtv 23:58:20 ... 3 primary ways we can influence the standardisation process: 23:58:21 https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/images/3/3b/2015-10-25_WebTVIntro.pptx.pdf 23:58:28 hiro_ has joined #webtv 23:58:31 ... 1) bug reports on existing specs 23:58:39 Bill_Rose has joined #webtv 23:58:52 ... 2) new spec done in a WG 23:59:25 ... 3) draft a spec in a CG, spinned out of the IG. Then hopefully transition to a WG 23:59:41 TakashiY has joined #webtv 00:00:02 ... I will now review the history of task forces and community groups that the Web and TV IG has done until now. 00:00:19 ... Standardisation is a long road. Some activities started in 2009 are still on-going. 00:01:01 ... 5 Task Forces concluded their work, 1 on hold (Web Media Profile TF), 1 active (GGIE) and new proposal for a cloud browser APIs Task Force (on the agenda for today). 00:01:14 youenn has joined #webtv 00:01:37 ... The Media Pipeline TF was the first task force. Reviewed a lot of details that the media business had to work with. 00:02:09 ... The task force submitted bug reports against the HTML5 spec. The IG contributed to the media architecture of HTML5. 00:02:12 fwtnb has joined #webtv 00:02:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 00:02:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/25-webtv-minutes.html yosuke2 00:02:36 skim13 has joined #webtv 00:02:49 ... Two areas were not addressed by HTML5. The IG drafted requirements for them: Media Source Extensions (adaptive bitrate), and Encrypted Media Extensions. 00:02:54 glennd has joined #webtv 00:03:09 ... Both activities are still on-going, although there are implementations already deployed. 00:03:39 ... The TF highglighted a lot of details on how one extracts metadata from media streams. 00:03:54 ... This led to the creation of the Media Resource In-band Tracks CG. 00:04:08 ... The resulting is now referenced by the HTML5 spec. 00:04:28 ... And so, the main focus for the first few years was on HTML5. 00:04:34 shin has joined #webtv 00:04:34 seanlin has joined #webtv 00:04:50 ... We'll talk about MSE and EME today 00:05:12 ... Also, the HTML WG F2F on Thursday and Friday is focused on these specs. 00:06:32 ... The Web Media Profile Task Force (on hold) is about creating a profile of HTML5 specs. Which version of CSS do you include? Which specs? That's of interest for standards groups that need to reference such specs. 00:06:52 ... We started this work around 2010 which led to a draft Web Media Profile. 00:07:27 ... However, at that time, most of the specs were still being updated on a rapid pace, so it was hard to maintain the list. 00:07:32 igarashi_ has joined #webtv 00:07:36 ... In the end, we put this on hold. 00:07:52 ... The question for today is: is there a need to re-open this? 00:08:11 ... It might be the right time now that most specs are stable. 00:09:01 Chris_Needham: This is something that we see partiularly with CSS. The OIPF spec references CSS specs that were still in draft formats. Most have stabilized even though they may not be at the Candidate Recommendation stage. 00:09:04 StephanSteglich has joined #webtv 00:09:11 ... Inconsistencies arised. 00:09:22 present+ Tatsuya_Igarashi 00:09:34 whyun has joined #webtv 00:09:38 ... Would be good to do that work now. 00:10:10 Mark_Vickers: That would be a good candidate topic for a CG. First, it's a spec. Second, we probably want people from external orgs doing such work to join and participate. 00:10:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 00:10:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/25-webtv-minutes.html yosuke2 00:10:41 kiyoshi_ has joined #webtv 00:10:51 ... Moving ahead to the Home Network Task Force, which wrote requirements to enable discovery and control of devices on the LAN. 00:11:05 ... These requirements were sent to the Devices APIs WG. 00:11:32 ... This led to the Network Service Discovery API spec, which stalled after review by the Privacy IG (PING). 00:11:35 yu has joined #webtv 00:11:56 ... No real solutions to enable discovery. 00:12:01 ... On hold for a while. 00:12:15 Glenn_Deen: How does this relate to stuff that got into WebRTC? 00:12:32 Mark_Vickers: These groups ran independently. 00:12:47 yu has joined #webtv 00:13:08 fuji has joined #webtv 00:13:18 ... The solution that seems to work is to let the user agent do the discovery without exposing the list of discovered services to the application. 00:13:29 StephanS has joined #webtv 00:13:43 ... That's the direction we followed in DLNA. Also see Bonjour. Part of the browser itself. 00:14:07 ... The Web site code does not have access to discovery. That's safe. 00:14:25 ... Moving on to the Testing Task Force. 00:14:43 ... In the TV world, devices often need to be certified before they can hit the market. 00:15:02 ... Not something that happen in the Web world where browers just ship new versions. 00:15:44 asahi3863 has joined #webtv 00:15:53 ... The group took input from several external groups (OIF, ATSC, DLNA, etc.) and reviewed testing use cases and so on to create a testing plan. 00:16:05 ... Several of these outputs were implemented at W3C in the testing activity. 00:16:29 ... The overall goal to improve the Web platform testing requires a lot of investments. 00:17:30 Yosuke: Web Platform Tests are on GitHub. However, unfortunately, these tests do not run on TV sets because of limitations. 00:17:44 ... We'll have a presentation of a test runner on TV today 00:17:53 Mark_Vickers: Exactly what I was about to say. 00:18:02 ... Moving on to the Timed Text Task Force. 00:18:35 ... Issue is that there are two different formats in use in the industry, both of them originating from the W3C: TTML and WebVTT. 00:18:54 ... We looked into them, and realized that these two formats needed to work together. 00:19:35 ... We gathered use cases from the industry and from IG members, wondering what had to happen with the 2 formats. 00:20:06 ... Two needs: WebVTT and TTML need to be done in the same group. And secondly, there should be a mapping doc between TTML and WebVTT. 00:20:29 ... These things happened. There is an Editor's Draft of the Mapping between TTML and WebVTT. 00:20:48 crescent has joined #webtv 00:20:50 ... Nigel will give an update on the Timed Text TF update and give demos of new work. 00:20:54 StephanS_ has joined #webtv 00:21:30 [Now we are in the session #1 IG Introduction.] 00:21:32 Mark_Vickers: The Media APIs Task Force looked at recording and downloading media, discovery and control of device capabilities, exposing TV metadata, etc. 00:21:34 h-takata_ has joined #webtv 00:21:51 ... All in one Task Force, which did a cross-analysis of use cases and requirements. 00:22:07 ama has joined #webtv 00:22:21 ... This triggered the TV Control API CG, which completed a first version of the TV Control API specification that will be presented today. 00:22:50 Mark_Vickers: Currently, we have one Task Force running on: the Glass to Glass Internet Ecosystem (GGIE). Will be presented today. 00:23:15 hyojin_ has joined #webtv 00:24:03 ... One piece of glass captures content, a lot of them are covered by specific standards or internal company architectures. Then different nodes on the path to the other glass (the media client), all of these nodes using different sets of standards. 00:24:31 ... The Task Force looks at the possibility to preserve data across these nodes from the first glass to the last one. 00:25:00 ... This is not only about driving W3C specs but also liaise with external groups since W3C will not write all the specs used in the chain. 00:25:46 Mark_Vickers: There are a couple of on-going CGs that are closely related to the Web and TV IG. The IG did not create them as such, but keeps an eye on them. They will be presented today. 00:26:03 kiyoshi has joined #webtv 00:27:03 Mark_Vickers: Looking at where we are now that HTML5 is out, lots of things have changed, that's incredible. Worldwide standards support HTML5 (ATSC 3.0, DLNA VidiPath, HbbTV 2.0, MSIP Smart TV 2.0 in Korea, IPTV Forum Japan Hybridcast). I may have missed a couple. 00:27:27 hirono has joined #webtv 00:27:36 ... In addition, there are TV platforms that support HTML5 or plan to: Android TV, Firefox OS, Opera TV, Tizen, WebOS. 00:27:51 ... Several of them have HTML as the primary development platform. 00:28:21 ... All these standards and platforms link to the discussion on establishing a platform. 00:28:35 s/a platform/a profile of HTML for media/ 00:29:17 Mark_Vickers: Hardware chips also support HTML5 (AMD, ARM, Broadcom, Intel, Marvell, MStar, NXP, Sigma, ST) 00:29:26 olivier1 has joined #webtv 00:29:49 ... It all makes sense that chip guys support technologies that platforms and standards want to use. It's still quite interesting to see this happen. 00:30:19 jcdufourd has joined #webtv 00:30:54 ... Finally, content protection support EME: Netflix and Youtube use HTML5 playback including EME. Most systems support EME or plan to support EME (Adobe Access, Alticast XCAS, Apple Fairplay, Google Widevice, Microsoft PlayReady, etc.) 00:31:12 ... We have an update on the TV standards today. 00:31:36 ... What remains to be done? A lot but that's up to us to decide. 00:31:49 ... We didn't get DataCues in HTML5 for instance. 00:32:03 ... I'd like to discuss this today and build the list with you. 00:32:46 Topic: Agenda review 00:33:02 Giuseppe_Pascale: [going through the agenda] 00:33:55 chiba-shu has joined #webtv 00:34:27 RRSAgent, draft minutes 00:34:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/25-webtv-minutes.html tidoust 00:34:50 Meeting: Web and TV IG F2F - TPAC 00:34:52 RRSAgent, draft minutes 00:34:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/25-webtv-minutes.html tidoust 00:35:26 https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Face-to-face_meeting_during_TPAC_2015#Agenda_Monday_October_26_.28tentative.29 00:35:36 sangwhan has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Face-to-face_meeting_during_TPAC_2015 00:35:58 Topic: TV Control API CG 00:37:11 scribe: giuseppe 00:37:20 yes 00:37:32 rrsagent, this meeting crosses midnight 00:37:32 I'm logging. I don't understand 'this meeting crosses midnight', nigel. Try /msg RRSAgent help 00:37:43 mfoltzgoogle has joined #webtv 00:37:50 Sean: goal is to enable web apps to interact with TV platform to present tv programs 00:38:12 ... we are dfining APIs to manage native TV modules 00:38:25 ... we looked at existing specs as a starting point 00:38:29 slides: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nYs8_xMktQCynLEOYRjLFxatFuQkamrvfpQ3sAMC10s 00:38:31 s/dfining/defining/ 00:38:40 EU webinos, Mozilla APIs, HbbTV, OIPF and more 00:38:41 s/dfining/defining/ 00:39:11 Rus has joined #webtv 00:39:19 we worked on a spec and now the specification draft is ready for publication 00:39:43 also ATSC showed interest in the API and we will follow up on that 00:39:58 we had one month public review just ended 00:40:11 after TPAC we would like to have official release, by the end of movember 00:41:00 Tuner, source channel and EPG management are handled via new API and events 00:41:19 we have methods for channel scanning 00:41:47 igarashi_ has joined #webtv 00:42:14 StephanS_ has joined #webtv 00:42:24 a new interface (TVMediaStream) was defined, extending Media Stream, to be able to stream content coming form the TV using a