14:01:56 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:01:56 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-irc 14:01:58 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:01:58 Zakim has joined #tt 14:02:00 Zakim, this will be TTML 14:02:00 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 14:02:01 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:02:01 Date: 22 October 2015 14:02:42 oh no, not again... 14:04:38 dae has joined #tt 14:04:48 present+ dae 14:05:53 jumping on now 14:07:01 The new meeting Philipe sent hasn't startwd yet? 14:09:24 pal has joined #tt 14:10:00 I assume I am not the only one that cannot join the webex? 14:11:32 The webex is scheduled 1 hour late. I'm going send a Lync invitation to member-tt. Hope that's okay with everyone. Plh hasn't responded but I want us to proceed... 14:13:16 https://meet.bbc.co.uk/nigel.megitt/QCCFSVH5 14:13:38 You can dial in too - find a local number at https://dialin.bbc.co.uk/ 14:13:50 Conf ID is 45706816 if you need it. 14:14:07 plh has joined #tt 14:14:09 You should be able to join from a browser directly. 14:14:21 I just fixed the time :( 14:14:44 Sorry everyone, let's go back to plan A since plh has fixed it - I'm happier using W3C provided services here. 14:16:44 Present: nigel, plh, mike, dae, pal 14:16:52 chair: nigel 14:16:53 scribe: nigel 14:17:15 Topic: This meeting 14:18:39 nigel: I plan to go through Actions, TPAC, IMSC. AOB? 14:19:15 mike: Yes, can we discuss (perhaps not urgently) some MPEG stuff relating to the profile registry etc. 14:19:40 Topic: Action Items 14:19:53 action-433? 14:19:53 action-433 -- Thierry Michel to Update cvs hosted landing page to simplify and highlight link into wiki page -- due 2015-10-22 -- OPEN 14:19:53 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/433 14:20:11 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/ 14:20:57 nigel: It points now to the wiki https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText which I'll try to polish up 14:21:05 ... to include the important stuff, and to improve the styling. 14:21:46 ... Any ideas for better styling appreciated - I did like https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar as an example. 14:21:58 close action-433 14:21:58 Closed action-433. 14:22:05 action-436? 14:22:05 action-436 -- Thierry Michel to Send mdolan an empty respec based note as a starting point for action-429 -- due 2015-10-22 -- OPEN 14:22:05 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/436 14:22:23 nigel: Thierry sent this? 14:22:26 mike: He did. Thank you. 14:22:30 close action-436 14:22:30 Closed action-436. 14:22:33 action-421? 14:22:33 action-421 -- Nigel Megitt to Check with ttml player manufacturers if they're happy to be listed on our site. -- due 2015-09-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:22:33 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/421 14:23:15 nigel: I got confirmation and the implementation is now listed at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/EffortsAndSpecifications#Implementations 14:24:06 close action-421 14:24:06 Closed action-421. 14:24:10 action-434? 14:24:10 action-434 -- Mike Dolan to Draft outgoing liaison to atsc proposing to reference an updated wd of ttml2 -- due 2015-10-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:24:10 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/434 14:24:23 nigel: Thanks Mike for drafting this - it was sent on Monday. 14:24:27 close action-434 14:24:27 Closed action-434. 14:25:15 mike: That was really timely - we're looking to adopt the advice and looking forward to the revision to TTML2. 14:25:37 Topic: TPAC 2015 14:25:55 nigel: Our wiki page is at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2015 14:27:05 dae: David Ronca cannot make TPAC after all, so can we push the TTML2 implementation item to a regular meeting after TPAC? 14:27:14 nigel: Okay, yes. Thanks for the information. 14:27:35 nigel: Can you talk about it in David's place? 14:27:43 q+ 14:27:50 dae: I can talk it a bit but David really wants to show it when he can. 14:27:52 ack 14:27:56 zakim, ack 14:27:56 I don't understand 'ack', nigel 14:28:04 s/ack/ 14:28:17 plh: Courtney and Glenn have registered for TPAC so I think we can expect them. 14:28:39 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2015/registrants#timed 14:28:53 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/LateTPAC2015/registrants#timed 14:29:22 nigel: Great. Staff aren't on this list but we have 8 people. 14:29:35 plh: I'm going to be really busy on Monday and Tuesday but only have 2 groups running in 14:29:47 ... parallel on Thursday and Friday so I should be available at least half the time. 14:30:07 nigel: Great. That gives us a bit more flexibility in terms of the charter discussion. 14:30:15 plh: If you avoid Friday afternoon then we should be fine. 14:30:42 nigel: In that case can I propose that we talk about the charter on Friday morning? 14:30:45 plh: sounds good to me. 14:34:38 pal: Can I request that we don't do IMSC on Friday afternoon, as I'll have to leave promptly. 14:35:13 nigel: Are there any other requests for slots to target or avoid? 14:36:31 nigel: Okay, seems like there aren't. In that case I'll try to schedule everything to accommodate. 14:37:32 pal: Can we do IMSC first thing on Friday, then take an hour before lunch on Friday? 14:37:35 nigel: Yes I think we can. 14:37:50 plh: We have until the end of March under the current charter so we can continue the discussions after TPAC. 14:37:54 nigel: Yes, we can! 14:38:18 nigel: So it looks like Thursday am: TTML2, Thursday pm: TTML <--> WebVTT mapping, 14:38:58 ... Friday am: IMSC and Charter+tools, Friday pm: IMSC continued plus other stuff. 14:39:21 plh: I think pal wants to be there for the tools discussion. I think we can do Charter and tools 14:39:33 ... in the same hour. We also need Glenn there for that. 14:39:52 pal: Hopefully we can keep the discussions strictly to how we move the tracker tickets rather than 14:39:56 ... on whether or not to do it. 14:40:45 nigel: The null proposal would be to keep tracker going but raise any new tickets on github. 14:41:19 pal: We can also create new tickets on github referencing the tracker issues. 14:41:32 plh: We can at some point copy all the open issues in tracker to github and continue the discussion there. 14:42:20 nigel: In the past I've used github issues as actions by tagging them. 14:42:33 nigel: It's not perfect but it does allow filtering. 14:42:57 nigel: Great, we have a rough schedule which I'll add to the wiki. 14:43:07 action-435? 14:43:07 action-435 -- Nigel Megitt to Add tools to tpac agenda -- due 2015-10-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:43:07 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/435 14:43:13 close action-435 14:43:13 Closed action-435. 14:44:04 Topic: Profiles Registry 14:44:52 Mike: I was in a discussion this morning about ISOBMFF carriage of text, both WebVTT and TTML. 14:45:14 ... The issue is how to signal the codecs parameter in DASH. There are a range of things in 14:45:27 ... practice today including using stpp as the codecs value. The desire is to use it as a hierarchical 14:45:40 ... string. In TTML it would look like stpp.ttml.[short name from the registry] 14:45:51 ... Everyone thought that was a good idea so that's going to go forward. 14:46:11 ... It shed some light on what W3C may or may not want to do. 14:46:27 ... It implies packaging in an ISOBMFF single track file. There are cases where TTML files are 14:46:37 ... being used natively without being wrapped. 14:47:03 ... The media type in ISOBMFF is application/mp4. For native use it is application/ttml+xml as 14:47:15 ... defined in the IANA registration. We also defined a parameter called profile that allows a 14:47:43 ... fully qualified URI of the profile designator, i.e. what's in the spec. That's fine and stands 14:48:06 ... alone. When you're using a standalone file it is unambiguous. If packaged in an MP4 file 14:48:14 ... then the 4 character codes come into play. 14:48:28 ... The plan is to revise the IANA registration and add a new parameter called codecs. That's 14:48:38 ... fine but its only for when a standalone file is used. 14:48:57 ... The question is do we still want to do that, where codecs is a replication of a parameter we 14:49:01 ... already have defined. 14:50:34 nigel: I think the standalone file with profile attribute is actually ambiguous - it's useful to 14:50:47 ... express how multiple processor profiles can be used to process the document. 14:51:03 mike: Okay, so the combinatorial syntax is still useful. 14:51:05 nigel: Yes. 14:52:10 mike: Then we should add to our Note that for DASH and MP4/ISOBMFF see ISO/IEC 14496-30. 14:53:51 mike: 14496-12 didn't distinguish TTML from any other form of XML based timed text. By adding "ttml." 14:54:14 ... to the stpp type then we make that distinction. The WebVTT type is unchanged. 14:55:33 Topic: IMSC stuff 14:55:54 action-432? 14:55:54 action-432 -- Nigel Megitt to Nigel, pal, andreas and frans to hook up re changing imsc 1 ebu-tt feature references to point to tech3350 v1.1 -- due 2015-10-15 -- OPEN 14:55:54 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/432 14:56:11 nigel: We've been discussing this but haven't reached a solid conclusion. 14:56:40 pal: I'm waiting to hear back from some folk before I push a new set of edits. 14:58:25 action-425? 14:58:25 action-425 -- Thierry Michel to Send a prompt/thank you to the potential test result contributors for imsc. -- due 2015-10-01 -- OPEN 14:58:25 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/425 14:58:52 pal: We've received another report that Thierry hasn't posted yet. 14:59:07 nigel: They asked to be anonymous, but we can still post it. 14:59:28 issue-418? 14:59:28 issue-418 -- semantics of ttp:aspectRatio is ambiguous -- pending review 14:59:28 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/418 14:59:45 nigel: Given the time let's get to this next week. 15:00:53 plh has left #tt 15:00:57 nigel: Apologies for the shorter meeting this week - we're out of time so I'll adjourn this meeting now, but in the meantime good travelling to everyone who is travelling, and see you next week. 15:01:02 nigel: [adjourns meeting] 15:01:52 s/Mike: I was in a discussion this morning about ISOBMFF carriage of text, both WebVTT and TTML./ 15:01:59 s/... The issue is how to signal the codecs parameter in DASH. There are a range of things in/ 15:02:06 s/... practice today including using stpp as the codecs value. The desire is to use it as a hierarchical/ 15:02:17 s/... string. In TTML it would look like stpp.ttml.[short name from the registry]/ 15:02:25 s/... Everyone thought that was a good idea so that's going to go forward./ 15:02:32 s/... It shed some light on what W3C may or may not want to do./ 15:02:39 s/... It implies packaging in an ISOBMFF single track file. There are cases where TTML files are/ 15:02:46 s/... being used natively without being wrapped./ 15:03:06 s|... The media type in ISOBMFF is application/mp4. For native use it is application/ttml+xml as| 15:03:16 s|... defined in the IANA registration. We also defined a parameter called profile that allows a| 15:03:23 s|... fully qualified URI of the profile designator, i.e. what's in the spec. That's fine and stands| 15:03:30 s|... alone. When you're using a standalone file it is unambiguous. If packaged in an MP4 file| 15:03:43 s|... then the 4 character codes come into play.| 15:04:35 s/... The plan is to revise the IANA/Mike: The plan is to revise the IANA 15:05:29 s|mike: Then we should add to our Note that for DASH and MP4/ISOBMFF see ISO/IEC 14496-30.|mike: Then we should make sure our Note references the right external documents. 15:05:41 s|mike: 14496-12 didn't distinguish TTML from any other form of XML based timed text. By adding "ttml."| 15:05:50 s|... to the stpp type then we make that distinction. The WebVTT type is unchanged.| 15:06:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:06:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:07:25 Regrets: andreas, frans 15:07:49 s/oh no, not again.../ 15:07:56 s/jumping on now/ 15:09:05 s/The new meeting Philipe sent hasn't startwd yet?/ 15:09:14 s/I assume I am not the only one that cannot join the webex?/ 15:09:30 s|https://meet.bbc.co.uk/nigel.megitt/QCCFSVH5| 15:09:40 s|You can dial in too - find a local number at https://dialin.bbc.co.uk/| 15:09:47 s|Conf ID is 45706816 if you need it.| 15:09:54 s|You should be able to join from a browser directly.| 15:11:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:11:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:12:42 s/ack/ 15:12:44 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:12:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:12:59 s/I can talk it a bit/I can talk about it a bit 15:13:14 s/when he can/when he can, with some slides he has prepared 15:14:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:14:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:19:07 s|http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/trer/issues/418|http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/418 15:19:46 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:19:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:20:59 ScribeOptions: -noEmbedDiagnostics -final 15:21:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:21:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:02:21 s/Then we should make sure our Note references the right external documents./ 16:02:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:02:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:02:56 s/mike:/ 16:02:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:02:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:32:23 Zakim has left #tt