See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 22 October 2015
<tara> Waiting for more folks to join the WebEx before getting started...
<npdoty> volunteers to scribe?
<npdoty> moneill2 or kodonog, care to scribe for us today?
ok
<npdoty> scribenick: moneill2
Gary is giving background
<npdoty> S/Gary/Giri/
Gary is chair of geolocation group
<npdoty> S/Gary/Giri/
<tara> I can see the first slide w/sidebar.
Giri: interoperabilty has been
problem on mobile web. Geofencing ability to draw a geometrical
shape determine if user device is inside or outside fence
... Qualcom had pre-standard implementations on Android
... 18month ago restarted geolocation group, came up with
geofencing API. Based on service workers, allowing web
developer to persist a process
<npdoty> [slide 2]
Giri: no consensus on https
origins
... geofencing API uses https origins, better privacy than
geolocation
... there is a privacy & security section
<npdoty> [slide 4]
Giri: only circular region defined so far
<npdoty> [slide 5]
<npdoty> [slide 4]
Giri: requires a developer opt-in. Service workers requires data persistence
<npdoty> yeah, that persistence kind of scares me, since it's potentially entirely in the background
Giri: pervasive monitoring risk,
what is users home location etc. is a problem. some solutions
being talked about by browsers
... should this be solved in API, or in meta context
<nick> some potentially scary things about user awareness
<nick> we need to give some guidance
<npdoty> if I load a page on my friend's computer and then it works in the background forever, can I just track my friend's location into the future forever?
Giri: this is broader than geofencing, more and more sensor API functionality
q
Giri: maybe some best practices requirements for service workers?
<nick> have we talked to service worker group?
Giri: Ping needs to raise this right now
<Lukasz> clear visibility/transparency display in browser UI
<nick) work item for PING
<tara> <moneill> Had there been any discussion of using the Permissions API?
<npdoty> moneill2: revocability and expiry of permissions
Giri: geolocation is in
permission spec
... guidance from PING on deviceorientation, access to sensors
determine pin entry etc.
... effort in device api working group
<npdoty> regarding deviceorientation: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/2015Aug/0003.html
<christine> +q
<npdoty> giri: deviceorientation is widely deployed, but never issued a Last Call
<christine> perpective on how we can coordinate at TPAC
Giri: geolocation TPAC agenda available, in joint meeting with automotive working group
<christine> can you be at IETF/PING meeting
+q
<Zakim> npdoty, you wanted to comment on timeline
<nick> Nick will be at TPAC, when do we need to resolve thee issues
you are fading out gary
<npdoty> giri: on timeline, still have technical issues re: geofencing spec that need to be resolved
<npdoty> ... concerned about the stability of the questionnaire
<npdoty> ... if it's in good shape, can settle on a collective response to the questionnaire in quick order
<npdoty> ... would like it to be done no later than the end of November
Giri: still some tech issues, need to be resolved first, in questionaire is in good face, put to bed by end Nov
<nick> we need to keep changing questionaire
Giri: general issue with service workers, needs to be sorted
<nick> serviceworkers not on PING list as of now, but it will be
<npdoty> moneill2: where do we find out about what's happening with service workers? is there a general requirement about data persistence for service workers?
<npdoty> giri: process persistence for service workers which requires some data persistence
<npdoty> ... then there are actual identifiers for the service worker themselves (scope URL), those identifiers also seem to persist
<npdoty> ... and underlying geolocation data is persisted in the sense of boundaries
<npdoty> ... Web Apps Working Group is working on Service Workers
<npdoty> https://slightlyoff.github.io/ServiceWorker/spec/service_worker/#security-considerations
<npdoty> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/
<npdoty> giri: on our first geofencing implementation, we wanted a level of process persistence, and had a Persistent Web Workers, which we had trouble commercializing because of the problem of end user management
<npdoty> ... should we add UI to the browser? can the user see which worker is active? shut down workers?
<npdoty> ... had concluded that that kind of UI was going to be necessary
Giri: user manageability of erviceworkers was not resolved, ened up as a trade off, ui is necessary, dont know if it will happen
thanks gary
<npdoty> I'll add Geofencing and Service Workers to our ongoing wiki list
<npdoty> Greg is regrets, who's been working on this particular item
<christine> maybe talk about TPAC agenda, in short time left, TPAC great opportunity
<nick> webapps sound like a priority, e.g serviceworkers
<chaals> webapps group is now webplatform , meeting on tuesday about serviceworkers
<chaals> webplatfor is also covering everything html, chaals is joint chaire, user context has clerar privacy issues
<npdoty> chaals, is there a link on that? I'm not familiar with that particular a11y work
<nick> serviceworker discussion, should we try to raise discussion earlier
<chaals> issues should be raised online on GitHub
<chaals> question has this been taken into account
<tar> other TPAC items?
<nick> webpayment WG announced, al lot of privacy questions, early stage a good time to discuss privacy
<chaals> latest draft of User Context spec, now a deliverable for the ARIA working group...
<npdoty> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/Privacy_Reviews
+q
<npdoty> moneill2: Permissions API (WebAppSec), it would be good to talk to people there at TPAC
<npdoty> ... in terms of user awareness and control
<npdoty> npdoty: sure, I'll try to look at that while at TPAC, and can share some comments on the list
<chaals> [unfortunately I won't be in the meetings, although I will be at TPAC and hope to catch up with people there]
<npdoty> 26 November is Thanksgiving (US)
<npdoty> 3 December?
bye
<npdoty> trackbot, end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/<gary>/Giri:/G Succeeded: s/<christine>/tara:/ Succeeded: s/some WAI group/the ARIA working group/ Found ScribeNick: moneill2 Inferring Scribes: moneill2 Default Present: npdoty, runnegar, tara, JoeHallCDT, LCPolan, KatieHS, Haritos-Shea, Lukasz_Olejnik, moneill2, kodonog, christine, mandyam, chaals Present: npdoty runnegar tara JoeHallCDT LCPolan KatieHS Haritos-Shea Lukasz_Olejnik moneill2 kodonog christine mandyam chaals Lukasz Regrets: wseltzer Lukasz_Olejnik Found Date: 22 Oct 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-privacy-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]