12:56:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
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12:56:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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12:56:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
12:56:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:56:09 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
12:56:09 <trackbot> Date: 21 October 2015
12:56:25 <Steven_> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Oct/0016
12:56:53 <Steven_> Steven_ has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Oct/0016
12:56:58 <Steven_> Chair: Steven
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13:03:17 <Steven_> Present: Steven, Erik, Alain, Nick, Philip, Mark
13:03:53 <Steven_> Steven: Welcome Mark
13:04:26 <Steven_> Mark: I'm in a noisy environment
13:05:07 <Steven_> ... I was a WG member some time ago, from the life assurance industry. Now I'm in archeology, but still working with forms and apps
13:05:26 <Steven_> ... Steven asked me to get involved with the user group.
13:05:33 <Steven_> ... I'm based in Edinburgh
13:05:54 <Steven_> Topic: XForms day 5th Nov
13:05:54 <Steven_> http://xmlamsterdam.com/2015/pre-conference
13:06:09 <Steven_> Steven: still ongoing, looks good; you are all welcome! :-)
13:06:39 <Steven_> Topic: Community Wiki
13:06:39 <Steven_> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Oct/0015.html
13:07:44 <Steven_> Steven: How easy is it to move? Copy and paste?
13:08:02 <Steven_> Erik: Yes, we can just create a copy of the content, same wiki engine.
13:08:14 <Steven_> ... moving the history would be hard
13:08:32 <Steven_> Steven: We'll make sure the old wiki remains
13:08:46 <Steven_> Nick: We would also have to change the scripts to generate the specs
13:09:15 <Steven_> ... that is not a trivial operation
13:09:27 <Steven_> ... it may be just hardcoding the URL
13:09:31 <Steven_> ... it needs looking at
13:09:48 <Steven_> Steven: Can I ask you to do that?
13:09:59 <Steven_> Nick: I have a big deadline at the moment
13:10:12 <Steven_> Steven: There's no rush for that at the moment.
13:10:29 <Steven_> Nick: After the deadline I'll take a look at him
13:10:53 <Steven_> ACTION: Nick to look at scripts for generating spec, and change URL for source wiki
13:10:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2037 - Look at scripts for generating spec, and change url for source wiki [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2015-10-28].
13:11:11 <Steven_> ACTION: Steven to move content to new wiki
13:11:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2038 - Move content to new wiki [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-10-28].
13:11:38 <Steven_> Topic: public-xformsusers
13:12:32 <Steven_> Steven: Mark is nominally chair of the Users Group
13:12:49 <Steven_> Mark: I think a list of implementations would be a good first publication. I have made a start
13:12:59 <Steven_> ... removing dead projects.
13:13:25 <Steven_> ... In November I'll have more time to work on it, but it would be good to have information about how the implementations are being used.
13:13:55 <Steven_> ... I have a list based on what was sent me earlier
13:14:04 <Steven_> Steven: Do you have that list to hand?
13:14:25 <Steven_> Mark: I don't have it with me
13:14:31 <Steven_> Steven: Can you send it to us?
13:14:37 <Steven_> Mark: Sure.
13:14:54 <Steven_> ACTION: Mark to send list of implementations
13:14:54 <trackbot> 'Mark' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., tingenek, mseaborn4).
13:15:04 <Steven_> ACTION: MarkS to send list of implementations
13:15:04 <trackbot> Error finding 'MarkS'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.
13:15:36 <Steven_> ACTION: mseaborn4 to send list of implementation
13:15:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2039 - Send list of implementation [on Mark Seaborne - due 2015-10-28].
13:16:18 <Steven_> Mark: I thought it would be good to ddocument some projects where XForms are used.
13:16:23 <Steven_> s/dd/
13:16:33 <Steven_> Mark: It would be good to document the diversity of usage
13:16:57 <Steven_> ... it is clearly still being used, and we should document those.
13:17:22 <Steven_> Steven: How could we approach that? Send some examples?
13:18:29 <Steven_> Mark: Yes. Just a bald statement of which projects we know about would be a good start, and we could fill that in.
13:18:59 <Steven_> ... It would be a good idea to put the XForms day on the wiki, maybe I should that first.
13:19:04 <Steven_> ... I shall do that.
13:19:24 <Steven_> Steven: Any other ideas from anybody?
13:19:46 <Steven_> Mark: Some design patterns, for managing common problems.
13:20:44 <Steven_> Philip: I agree. Two projects I'm involved with, you see a range of solving problems, I could get involved with providing some input for that.
13:21:15 <Steven_> Steven: Maybe if we all send a list of patterns and techniques we would like to see documented.
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13:27:25 <nvdbleek> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Apr/0008
13:28:07 <nvdbleek> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0044.html
13:28:19 <Steven_> Topic: Backwards compatibility
13:28:19 <Steven_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0044.html
13:29:39 <Steven_> Nick: What do we do if XPath 2 produces different results? Do we need a way to switch to XPath 1 compatibility mode?
13:30:14 <Steven_> ... We have a flag maybe in XForms 2.0 to use XPath 1, maybe, let me check
13:30:40 <nvdbleek> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XPath_Expressions_Module#xpath-version-attribute
13:31:32 <Steven_> Nick: Yes, there is a flag, see link
13:31:37 <Steven_> Steven: Would this solve it?
13:31:43 <Steven_> Nick: I think so.
13:32:34 <Steven_> Erik: I've never used XPath 1.0 with XForms! So I'm not quite sure what people expect, but it would be god to have compatibility.
13:32:42 <Steven_> s/god/good/
13:33:34 <Steven_> Erik: So we allow the use of an XPath 1 implementation, or XPath 2 in compatibility mode. We shpould try to maximise the compatibility.
13:33:41 <Steven_> s/shp/sh
13:35:04 <Steven_> Erik: In XForms 2, we get type information from the instance, but in XForms 1 we often have to cast to the type we want.
13:36:19 <Steven_> ... my suggestion is that in XPath 2 backwards compatible mode that we do NOT provide the type information, so that it would be MORE backwards compatible
13:36:33 <Steven_> ... and we shoukd add something to that effect
13:36:56 <Steven_> ACTION Erik; To add working about XPath 2 backwards comaptibility mode not providing type information
13:36:56 <trackbot> Error finding 'Erik;'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.
13:37:03 <Steven_> s/working/wording/
13:37:28 <Steven_> ACTION Eric; To add wording about XPath 2 backwards compatibility mode not providing type information
13:37:28 <trackbot> Error finding 'Eric;'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.
13:37:50 <Steven_> ACTION: Erik To add wording about XPath 2 backwards compatibility mode not providing type information
13:37:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2040 - Add wording about xpath 2 backwards compatibility mode not providing type information [on Erik Bruchez - due 2015-10-28].
13:39:14 <Steven_> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0041.html
13:39:37 <Steven_> Topic: includenamespaceprefixes
13:39:37 <Steven_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2014Oct/0041.html
13:39:44 <Steven_> Steven: Did we deal with this?
13:39:55 <Steven_> Nick: I remember an action item for it
13:39:59 <Steven_> ... but I have an issue
13:40:20 <Steven_> ... I sent a reply
13:41:03 <Steven_> ... not sure if I can find it
13:41:22 <Steven_> Erik: It was about element creation, but this is a different issue
13:42:46 <Steven_> http://www.w3.org/2014/11/12-forms-minutes.html#item02
13:43:14 <Steven_> ACTION-1986?
13:43:14 <trackbot> ACTION-1986 -- Erik Bruchez to Investigate dealing with excess namespace nodes in section 3.2 the instance element -- due 2014-11-19 -- OPEN
13:43:14 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/actions/1986
13:47:22 <Steven_> Steven: So I found the earlier discussion, and we didn't resolve it, which is why it's still here.
13:49:41 <Steven_> Erik: We have made the changes;  "If the initial instance data is given by inline content, then instance data is obtained as follows:
13:49:41 <Steven_>  A detached copy of the first child element of the instance element is created and placed within a new document node. The copied element becomes the root element of a new XML document.
13:49:41 <Steven_>  If needed, namespace nodes are copied to that detached root element as described below."
13:49:42 <ebruchez> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_instance_Element
13:49:55 <Steven_> Close ACTION-1986
13:49:55 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-1986.
13:50:08 <Steven_> Steven: So we are done; we solved it.
13:51:17 <Steven_> Erik: I don't know if this answers Alain's question
13:51:51 <Steven_> Alain: Yes
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13:52:56 <Steven_> Steven: Then we are done for today.
13:53:00 <Steven_> [ADJOURN]
13:53:06 <Steven_> rrsagent, make minutes
13:53:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-forms-minutes.html Steven_
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