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15:50:58 <koalie> meeting: Chair Training - Fifth episode: "Horizontal Review" (session 1)
15:51:04 <koalie> chair: VirginieGalindo
15:51:26 <koalie> RRSAgent, make logs world-readable
15:52:19 <koalie> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2015OctDec/0020.html
15:52:35 <koalie> koalie has changed the topic to:  "Horizontal Review" Chair training https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2015OctDec/0020.html
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15:58:55 <koalie> present+ CoralieMercier
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15:59:43 <Arnaud> present+ Arnaud
15:59:46 <koalie> present+ AlanStearns
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16:00:40 <jeff> present+ jeff
16:00:51 <koalie> present+ VirginieGalindo
16:01:00 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
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16:01:56 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
16:02:13 <virginie> present+ Virginie Galindo
16:02:22 <astearns> present+ Alan Stearns
16:02:37 <virginie> (expecting clown waves :))
16:03:11 <koalie> -> www.w3.org/2015/10/W3C-transversal-review-101_13OCT2015.pptx Powerpoint: W3C horizontal review 101
16:03:25 <SimonSapin> present+ SimonSapin
16:03:32 <koalie> -> www.w3.org/2015/10/W3C-transversal-review-101_13OCT2015.pdf PDF: W3C horizontal review 101
16:03:54 <gkellogg> present+ Gregg Kellogg
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16:05:23 <koalie> Jeff: I'd like to express gratitude for this module; it was Virginie's suggestion and she developed it
16:05:30 <wseltzer> present+ wseltzer
16:06:07 <koalie> Jeff: At TPAC in two weeks, we'll be having a chairs breakfast Tuesday, 27 October, 07:30-08:30am
16:06:30 <koalie> ... I'd like to take this opportunity for us to go over how chairs leverage staff contacts
16:06:35 <koalie> ... what is important or less important
16:06:48 <koalie> ... I'm looking forward to hearing your perspectives in 2 weeks
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16:07:43 <ShaneM> present+ ShaneM
16:07:47 <koalie> [Training session audio is being recorded]
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16:08:01 <ddahl> present+ Debbie_Dahl
16:08:16 <koalie> Topic: Intro
16:08:29 <koalie> Virginie: Training is dedicated to chairs, and spec editors
16:08:36 <koalie> ... first time we're giving this training
16:08:44 <koalie> ... you'll have a chance to raise your questions
16:08:56 <koalie> ... if you have those during the presentation, please type q+ in IRC
16:09:05 <chaals> Present+ chaals
16:09:17 <koalie> Topic: Benefits
16:09:34 <koalie> Virginie: Benefits is for W3C to make sure all horizontal topics are handled correctly and seriously
16:09:40 <koalie> ... in technical deliverables
16:09:49 <koalie> ... goal today is to make sure you are aware of this
16:10:03 <koalie> ... You'll need support and this is what I'm going to explain today
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16:11:10 <koalie> [Richard Ishida and Wendy Seltzer are on this call]
16:11:21 <koalie> Topic: Horizontal like what ? [slide 3]
16:11:45 <koalie> Virginie: Idea is to have a Web that is trusted for all, available for all, has good performanace and enabler of business
16:11:57 <koalie> ... accessibility is a key point as is internationalization
16:12:22 <koalie> Topic: Why, when and how should you horizontally review ? [slide 4]
16:12:34 <koalie> Virginie: This is about your deliverable being compliant with the 4 concepts,
16:13:00 <koalie> ... it's important that these review happen starting at FPWD
16:13:26 <koalie> ... experts will come back to you on the design of your technology
16:13:42 <koalie> ... a first exchange as soon as possible in the creation of your spec is important
16:14:07 <koalie> ... We know that each of you editors, contributors, etc, don't have to be an expert in accessibility, internationalization or security
16:14:09 <virginie> q?
16:14:20 <koalie> ... each of the domains have specificities
16:14:26 <koalie> ... not everything is harmonised
16:14:34 <koalie> ... I'll go over each of them
16:14:55 <koalie> Topic: Horizontal review mechanics [slide 5]
16:15:12 <koalie> Virginie: When you write your spec, you may have started first with some requirements
16:15:22 <koalie> ... that would be good to inform the reviewers that you have those
16:15:52 <koalie> ... when you're in First Public WD, it's important to contact the appropriate reviewers with an approximate timeline
16:16:17 <koalie> ... you should also be able to give first feeling, e.g. do you expect a lot of user inteactions? think accessibility
16:16:26 <koalie> ... or sensitive data? think privacy review
16:16:59 <koalie> ... another mechanism that we'd like you to handle at W3C is to nominate a champion in your WG to deal with the reviewer
16:17:28 <koalie> ... and also be able to answer the experts' questions
16:17:50 <koalie> ... another thing is that horizontal review isn't one-host
16:17:55 <koalie> s/host/shot/
16:18:05 <koalie> ... you'll have to maintain it throughout the life of your spec
16:18:15 <koalie> ... e.g. every 6 months or according to your own timeline
16:18:16 <chaals> q+ to suggest user interaction means think privacy and security too…
16:18:16 <koalie> q?
16:18:56 <koalie> Topic: Reviews… [slide 6]
16:19:24 <chaals> q?
16:19:27 <koalie> Virginie: I am a chair of a WG. we chairs are busy and spec editors are busy as well
16:19:34 <koalie> ... we have to brave
16:19:45 <koalie> ... we really have to not ignore those reviews.
16:19:56 <koalie> ack next
16:19:57 <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to suggest user interaction means think privacy and security too…
16:20:16 <koalie> chaals: Just about how you decide who to bring in, if you have user interactions you should think about privacy
16:20:24 <koalie> ... and security concerns
16:20:31 <virginie> +1 to chaals
16:20:39 <koalie> ... when you have a champion, it's good if you have someone who cares about accessibility and does accessbility stuff
16:21:14 <koalie> ... was we tried to do in @@ is bring in someone who has knowledge
16:21:21 <koalie> ... now there's a vast pool of knowledge
16:21:40 <koalie> ... BUT, your accessibilit of whatever expert won't know everything
16:21:49 <koalie> ... so, ensure you get the broadest set of reviews.
16:22:03 <chaals> s/@@/Web Platforms/
16:22:17 <koalie> Virginie: Let's jump to the 4 domains
16:22:21 <koalie> ... and go over tools
16:22:31 <koalie> Topic: Internationalization : I18n [slide 7]
16:22:45 <koalie> Virginie: Richard Ishida of W3C is the lead
16:22:57 <chaals> s/in someone who has knowledge/people with experience in the "horizontal" areas directly into the group to participate on an ongoing basis…
16:23:05 <koalie> ... i18n goal is to enable a technology to support any writing system of the world
16:23:11 <chaals> s/accessibilit of/accessibility or/
16:23:16 <koalie> ... based on unicode, but making this happen is quite complex
16:23:16 <r12a> writing systems, languages and local cultural needs
16:23:37 <koalie> Virginie: writing vertically is a known challenge, right-to-left
16:23:42 <koalie> ... other things are cultural
16:23:56 <koalie> ... those are the aspects i18n takes into account
16:24:08 <koalie> [slide 8: I18n structure]
16:24:08 <chaals> [I noticed today a suggestion for thousands separators. Which is great, except that in some big places numbers aren't divided into thousands the way they are in most western cultures…]
16:24:34 <koalie> Virginie: There's an i18n Interest Group and Working Group and other related interest and community groups
16:24:56 <koalie> ... Please, talk to the Internationalization Working Group
16:25:13 <koalie> [slide 9: I18n support]
16:25:33 <koalie> -> http://www.w3.org/International/techniques/developing-specs-dynamic Best practice guidelines for developing spec
16:25:42 <koalie> Virginie: Also, typography index
16:26:04 <koalie> ... link between your working group and i18n WG for your issues; ask the team
16:26:09 <koalie> ... Richard?
16:26:25 <koalie> Richard: We're happy to hear from you quite early on
16:26:57 <koalie> ... it's been a problem in the past that people reach LC, think the spec is done, they're exhausted and send it to i18n and we identify problems and it doesn't go well
16:27:20 <koalie> ... Contact us at an early stage; FPWD is a good time to ping us
16:27:51 <koalie> ... please write to the internationalization working group
16:27:57 <koalie> ... member list if you need to
16:28:02 <koalie> ... but we do our work in public
16:28:04 <r12a> www-international@w3.org
16:28:18 <r12a> public-i18n-core@w3.org
16:28:31 <virginie> Addison Phillips aphillips@amazon.com
16:29:26 <koalie> Virginie: What is expected on the Domain side is to take care of these people seeking help
16:29:34 <koalie> ... chairs and editors will get some support
16:29:38 <r12a> q+
16:29:40 <koalie> ... don't be afraid to take that step
16:29:43 <r12a> q-
16:29:49 <koalie> ... there will be someone to help you
16:30:16 <r12a> q+
16:30:35 <koalie> ack next
16:30:48 <koalie> Richard: as Chairs, please try to make sure your specs are easy to understand
16:30:53 <koalie> ... we're not experts in your domain
16:31:12 <koalie> ... we often have the possibility to read your spec 2 or 3 times before we can comment
16:31:21 <koalie> ... so please, make it easier for us to understand
16:31:36 <koalie> ... a brief summary of algorithms is extremely helpful for us.
16:31:41 <chaals> [+1 to making specs easy to understand - for implementors whose developers mostly don't speak english as a first language, it is also helpful]
16:32:01 <koalie> ... I'd like to say that the idea to have a champion for i18n is good but don't rely on your champion to do everything
16:32:17 <koalie> ... every one in the WG learns as they go
16:33:00 <koalie> Virginie: Thanks Richard. Good comment on readable spec. It applies to all.
16:33:11 <koalie> Topic: Accessibility : A11y [slide 11]
16:33:25 <koalie> Virginie: the idea is that anyone with disability can access the Web
16:33:38 <koalie> ... it's not just about being social, but improving the capability of the technology
16:33:57 <koalie> ... by putting some good accessibility in your technology, you improve on SEO and device independance
16:34:47 <koalie> ... the accessibility domain addresses web content, user agent, assistive device to translate text into voice, everything that allows you to be an author, and tools that asess the level of accessibility of a technology.
16:35:03 <koalie> ... strong culture at W3C
16:35:12 <koalie> [slide 12: A11y structure]
16:35:24 <koalie> Virginie: WAI == Web accessibility Initiative at W3C
16:36:06 <virginie> q?
16:36:07 <koalie> [slide 13: A11y support]
16:36:42 <koalie> Virginie: W3C specs should support accessibility; it's important that chairs and editors support that statement
16:37:06 <koalie> -> http://w3c.github.io/pfwg/wtag/wtag.html Web Technology Accessibility Guidelines
16:37:19 <koalie> -> http://w3c.github.io/pfwg/wtag/checklist Draft Checklist
16:37:38 <koalie> Virginie: Also, there's an IRC channel for 24/7 discussion
16:37:55 <koalie> -> https://github.com/w3c/a11ySlackers a11ySlackers channel
16:38:03 <koalie> [slide 14: A11y contact]
16:38:29 <koalie> Virginie: your contact is Janina Sajka, chair of the APA WG, and Michael Cooper, staff contact
16:38:48 <jeff> q+
16:38:56 <koalie> ... Judy Brewer, leader of the WAI, can help you
16:39:28 <koalie> ack next
16:39:48 <koalie> Jeff: Sorry Judy wouldn't be here; if people have questions, and they're simple, I'd be happy to answer
16:39:53 <koalie> ... chaals may also be able to answer
16:40:01 <koalie> ... otherwise, I'm happy to bring back questionx to Judy
16:40:07 <koalie> ... and I'll get back to you.
16:40:16 <koalie> Topic: Privacy [slide 15]
16:40:48 <koalie> Virginie: Key point for privacy: ensure no illegitimate access to data related to the user's activity on the Web
16:41:09 <koalie> ... user tracking principle, like making sure a user can not be tracked
16:41:31 <koalie> ... this also relates to finger-printing (being able to detect specific characteristic that identify a user)
16:41:38 <koalie> ... privacy also covers the API design
16:42:03 <koalie> ... by designing some specific functions in API, you may give a hand to somone trying to steal user data
16:42:15 <koalie> [slide 16: Privacy structure]
16:42:30 <koalie> Virginie: Privacy at W3C is an Interest Group and the Tracking Protection WG
16:42:44 <koalie> ... you should ask reviews to the Privacy Interest Group
16:43:13 <koalie> -> http://www.w3.org/Privacy/ Privacy activity
16:43:31 <koalie> [slide 17: Privacy support]
16:43:47 <koalie> -> http://w3c.github.io/fingerprinting-guidance/ Draft: Fingerprint guidance for editors
16:44:05 <koalie> -> https://w3ctag.github.io/security-questionnaire/ TAG review questionnaire
16:44:11 <koalie> s/TAG/Draft: TAG/
16:44:30 <koalie> Virginie: This TAG questionnaire is the result of a conversation between the WebAppSec WG and the TAG
16:44:44 <koalie> ... you should be able to answer it and it should be the beginning of your review
16:44:53 <koalie> ... goal is to raise awareness
16:45:05 <koalie> ... please go and have a look at this questionnaire
16:45:13 <koalie> [slide 18: Privacy contacts]
16:45:27 <virginie> q?
16:45:47 <koalie> Topic: Security [slide 19]
16:45:58 <chaals> q+ to ask what happens if you *fail* a privacy review?
16:46:16 <koalie> Virginie: Data is sensitive and has value. Objective is to make sure business on the Web can be done in a trusted way
16:46:36 <koalie> ... the security activity adapts the security model with new features and special care in API design
16:46:45 <koalie> [slide 20: Security structure]
16:47:13 <koalie> Virginie: Security activity at W3C includes Web App Sec WG, Web Crypto WG, Web Payment WG and the Web Security Interest Group that I chair
16:47:29 <koalie> ... We lack security resource in that Interest Group
16:47:39 <koalie> ... nonetheless, this is where you should send your review requests
16:47:45 <koalie> ... The TAG as well
16:47:52 <koalie> ... please, don't hesitate to contact them
16:48:00 <koalie> [slide 21: Security support]
16:48:23 <koalie> Virginie: Again, the draft TAG review questionnaire covers security and privacy
16:48:28 <koalie> ... Wendy?
16:48:32 <koalie> Wendy: Thanks Virginie
16:48:57 <koalie> ... I'll point to the security questionnaire that we've seen a few groups use as an appendix to their documents
16:49:19 <koalie> ... putting the text in your draft as an appendix is one way to show that your document has privacy ans security concerns
16:49:28 <koalie> ... and is a good starting point for experts to work from
16:49:53 <koalie> ... whether something is missing and other considerations that should be taken into account before the spec moves forward
16:49:56 <koalie> ... we aim to help
16:50:13 <koalie> ... we want to help get your help move forward with due consideration for security and privacy
16:50:27 <koalie> ... let's get those out and early in the process
16:50:54 <koalie> Virginie: As W3C we have to do that.
16:51:06 <koalie> ... We're done with general review
16:51:19 <koalie> [slide 23: acknowledgements]
16:51:20 <wseltzer> s/has privacy ans/has considered privacy and/
16:51:44 <koalie> Topic: Questions?
16:51:53 <koalie> q?
16:52:05 <koalie> ack next
16:52:06 <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to ask what happens if you *fail* a privacy review?
16:52:24 <wseltzer> q+
16:52:26 <koalie> chaals: What happens if you fail a review?
16:52:38 <koalie> ... you find a problem and it's very very difficult to resolve
16:52:54 <koalie> Virginie: There are some topics that are so sensitive that they were rejected
16:53:00 <koalie> ... this can happen
16:53:00 <koalie> ... it's the worse case
16:53:14 <koalie> ...nevertheless, the privacy topic has been handled for a few years now at W#C
16:53:17 <koalie> s/W#C/W3C/
16:53:27 <koalie> ... and people can help you determine that you're going to fail
16:53:43 <koalie> ... after that, I'm hoping we're in a modern society and are able to find a solution to the privacy problems
16:53:57 <koalie> Wendy: The DNA on the Web Community Group!
16:54:01 <koalie> ... it's a joke
16:54:19 <koalie> ... but in a more serious vein, we, as team, make recommendations to the Director
16:54:29 <koalie> ... for review and transitions of documents
16:54:55 <koalie> ... I would not recommend a spec that has security and privacy flaws transitions
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16:55:35 <koalie> Virginie: At least it's clear
16:56:08 <koalie> ... If you have feedback on this training, please let me know or Coralie
16:56:24 <chaals> [Merci beaucoup Virginie, this was good.]
16:56:26 <wseltzer> s/transitions/be approved for transition; on the other hand, a document that discussed the privacy and security considerations and addressed the tradeoffs with user consent could be recommended/
16:56:41 <koalie> Virginie: please, inform your working group at your next call
16:56:46 <chaals> [note https://www.w3.org/wiki/DocumentReview …]
16:56:49 <koalie> ... let them know of horizontal review
16:56:54 <koalie> ... and start finding your champion
16:57:01 <r12a> [thanks Virginie ! ]
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16:57:10 <koalie> Virginie: See you all at TPAC!
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