14:29:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:29:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/07-lvtf-irc
14:29:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:29:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #lvtf
14:29:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:29:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:29:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:29:34 <trackbot> Date: 07 October 2015
14:29:45 <jallan> rrsagent, set logs public
14:29:50 <shawn> shawn has changed the topic to: WebEx (*new*) https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=me0f8b8d573d2ca3842cf1f2d9cb3dbdf   .
14:30:59 <AWK> AWK has joined #lvtf
14:31:31 <AWK> having trouble with webex
14:31:40 <AWK> are others able to join?
14:32:04 <shawn> see new webex link in topic. I'll send e-mail, too
14:32:19 <laura> It tells me: “The meeting has been canceled”
14:32:47 <laura> Thanks, Shawn.
14:33:10 <Frustrated> Frustrated has joined #lvtf
14:33:12 <jallan> chair: JimA and AndrewK
14:33:57 <Srini> Srini has joined #lvtf
14:34:06 <MichaelC> +MichaelC
14:34:12 <Srini> +Srini
14:34:26 <MichaelC> regrets: Jonathan_Avila, Alan_Smith, Bruce_Bailey
14:34:30 <Srini> My WebEX is being loaded
14:34:31 <jallan> Agenda+ scribe Agenda+ reminder - rejoin WCAG if you haven't already done so Agenda+ survey about overview - discussion
14:34:31 <AWK> +AWK
14:34:48 <jallan> Agenda+ reminder - rejoin WCAG if you haven't already done so
14:35:09 <jallan> Agenda+ volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category)
14:35:25 <jallan> Agenda+ rewrite use cases
14:35:50 <jallan> agenda?
14:36:11 <jallan> zakim, delete item 1
14:36:11 <Zakim> agendum 1, scribe Agenda+ reminder - rejoin WCAG if you haven't already done so Agenda+ survey about overview - discussion, dropped
14:37:13 <AWK> +erich_manser
14:37:19 <Srini> are you guys on WebEx already? I clicked on new link sent by Shawn and it's still loading
14:37:48 <shawn> present+ shawn
14:38:02 <jallan> +Jim
14:38:12 <jallan> zakim, who is here
14:38:12 <Zakim> jallan, you need to end that query with '?'
14:38:18 <jallan> zakim, who is here?
14:38:18 <Zakim> Present: MichaelC, Srini, AWK, erich_manser, shawn, Jim
14:38:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see Srini, AWK, Zakim, RRSAgent, jallan, laura, shawn, MichaelC, trackbot
14:38:42 <laura> present+ Laura
14:38:56 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
14:39:42 <AWK> agenda+ Availability survey <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF-telecons/>
14:39:44 <Ryladog__> Ryladog__ has joined #lvtf
14:40:03 <Ryladog__> Present+ Katie Haritos-Shea
14:40:58 <Wayne> hi I am unable to call in
14:41:03 <Wayne> wayne+
14:42:59 <AWK> Scribe: Srini
14:43:17 <jallan> zakim, agenda?
14:43:17 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
14:43:18 <Zakim> 2. reminder - rejoin WCAG if you haven't already done so [from jallan]
14:43:18 <Zakim> 3. volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category) [from jallan]
14:43:18 <Zakim> 4. rewrite use cases [from jallan]
14:43:19 <Zakim> 5. Availability survey <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF-telecons/> [from AWK]
14:43:46 <jallan> Agenda+ survey about overview - discussion
14:43:57 <jallan> zakim, agenda
14:43:57 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', jallan
14:44:03 <jallan> zakim, agenda?
14:44:03 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
14:44:04 <Zakim> 2. reminder - rejoin WCAG if you haven't already done so [from jallan]
14:44:04 <Zakim> 3. volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category) [from jallan]
14:44:04 <Zakim> 4. rewrite use cases [from jallan]
14:44:05 <Zakim> 5. Availability survey <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF-telecons/> [from AWK]
14:44:05 <Zakim> 6. survey about overview - discussion [from jallan]
14:44:08 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 2
14:44:08 <Zakim> agendum 2. "reminder - rejoin WCAG if you haven't already done so" taken up [from jallan]
14:44:49 <jallan> topic: rejoin WCAG if not already done so.
14:44:49 <Srini> AWK: reminding everyone about rejoining W3C and groups. There will be a reminder email
14:45:10 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/35422/join
14:45:12 <AWK> People have about 30 days to do this
14:45:25 <Srini> AWK: There is a change in new charter and everyone need to be new member of @CAG
14:45:28 <AWK> but don't delay as if you miss the deadline there will be a long delay
14:45:30 <Wayne> my access code is wrong, also the meeting says it is cancelled on webex
14:45:33 <Srini> there is a 30 days grace period
14:45:41 <jallan> topic: availability survey
14:45:56 <Srini> New WebEX link
14:46:01 <shawn> s/@CAG/WCAG
14:46:21 <shawn> s/ my access code is wrong, also the meeting says it is cancelled on webex/ /
14:46:25 <AWK> ZAkim, take up item 5
14:46:25 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Availability survey <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF-telecons/>" taken up [from AWK]
14:47:15 <shawn> +1 to doing survey and not regrets e-mails
14:47:26 <Srini> AWK: people are expected to indicate that they can't make it there
14:47:33 <AWK> ZAkim, agenda?
14:47:33 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
14:47:34 <Zakim> 2. reminder - rejoin WCAG if you haven't already done so [from jallan]
14:47:34 <Zakim> 3. volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category) [from jallan]
14:47:34 <Zakim> 4. rewrite use cases [from jallan]
14:47:34 <Zakim> 5. Availability survey <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF-telecons/> [from AWK]
14:47:34 <Zakim> 6. survey about overview - discussion [from jallan]
14:47:36 <shawn> q+
14:47:38 <Srini> New link for Web Ex: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=me0f8b8d573d2ca3842cf1f2d9cb3dbdf
14:47:42 <AWK> Zakim, close item 2
14:47:42 <Zakim> agendum 2, reminder - rejoin WCAG if you haven't already done so, closed
14:47:44 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:47:44 <Zakim> 3. volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category) [from jallan]
14:47:52 <shawn> "Please put your best guess for now. You can update this survey/questionnaire at any time."
14:47:56 <shawn> ack me
14:47:56 <AWK> ack s
14:48:27 <Srini> Shawn: you can change / update your coments any time Re: survey
14:48:38 <jallan> zakim, close item 5
14:48:38 <Zakim> agendum 5, Availability survey <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF-telecons/>, closed
14:48:40 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:48:40 <Zakim> 3. volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category) [from jallan]
14:48:46 <shawn> present+ Wayne
14:48:55 <Srini> Wayne: manage to get in! Srini: Welcome
14:49:00 <AWK> zakim, close item 5
14:49:00 <Zakim> agendum 5, Availability survey <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF-telecons/>, closed
14:49:02 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:49:02 <Zakim> 3. volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category) [from jallan]
14:49:09 <AWK> ZAkim, take up item 6
14:49:09 <Zakim> agendum 6. "survey about overview - discussion" taken up [from jallan]
14:49:10 <shawn> agenda?
14:49:24 <jallan> topic: Survey of Overview
14:50:17 <shawn> survey results: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/overview/results
14:50:51 <jallan> Overview wiki page https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Overview_of_Low_Vision#Overview_of_Low_Vision
14:51:36 <Srini> We did some edits in survey page to let people give feedback.
14:52:00 <Srini> We didn't get it to it.
14:52:11 <Srini> AWK, : there are 4 responses
14:52:20 <laura> Results: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/overview/results
14:52:48 <Srini> Jim: Well
14:53:23 <Srini> Jim: reviewed and refreshed page. he still see it blank
14:53:31 <Srini> Jim: andrew, can you please check?
14:53:46 <Srini> Jim: click on questions and get nothing
14:53:54 <Srini> AWK: trying
14:54:48 <Srini> AWK: size limitations, field blocks etc. for topics
14:54:58 <Srini> field loss, elimination, color, blow
14:55:21 <jallan> s/elimination/illumination
14:55:21 <Srini> Laura suggesting figure out way color and contrast
14:55:57 <Srini> Jim: color is part of illumunation
14:56:11 <Srini> Jim: color blind and fall under contrast
14:56:29 <Srini> AWK: asking Laura to talk about clarity
14:57:02 <Srini> Wayne: Katie is not on IRC too
14:57:16 <Srini> AWK: we should follow up with Katie on what is clarity
14:58:29 <Srini> Wayne: SBVI has soem great details, numerious ones that he has put together under distration.
14:58:37 <Srini> Wayne: cool thing for low vision.
14:59:12 <Srini> Wayne: very significant info about loss in detail
14:59:45 <Srini> AWK: loss in detail, is it a limitation?
14:59:49 <Srini> Wayne: it's ground problem
15:00:05 <Srini> Wayne: when noise page, people with low vision don't see anything.
15:00:19 <Srini> Wayne: if you have busy back ground, it's trouble reading
15:00:37 <Srini> Wayne: it confuses low vision for low vsiion.
15:00:50 <Srini> it's about background of pages
15:01:23 <Srini> Srini: lots of people put background images and text with poor color contrast
15:01:29 <Srini> AWK: close to audio contrast
15:01:30 <jallan> s/visiion/vision
15:01:45 <jallan> s/vsiion/vision
15:01:52 <Srini> Wayne: it's about visual simplicity
15:02:18 <Srini> AWK: question is user limitation for users is visual simplicity? where would it fall in our categories?
15:02:56 <Srini> AWK: there isn't need to be independent, they should provide as subset of common characteristics
15:03:16 <Srini> AWK: size limitations, physical field block, these sorts of problems.
15:03:59 <Srini> Wayne: Color and contrast can go into illumination. users may have brightness problem, color problem
15:04:21 <Srini> AWK: we have illumination and color, are you suggesting together or seperate?
15:04:30 <Srini> Wayne: seperate and we can drop in contrast
15:04:58 <Srini> Wayne: there is a great demand for high contrast. they get tired
15:05:20 <AWK> zakim, queue?
15:05:20 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:05:39 <Srini> Jim: you were saying make it color and move contrast as seperate line
15:05:49 <Srini> Wayne: thinks contrast is not a seperate line
15:05:53 <shawn> q+ to say not "color contrast"
15:06:17 <shawn> luminosity contrast ratio
15:06:23 <shawn> q?
15:06:52 <AWK> ack s
15:06:52 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say not "color contrast"
15:06:58 <shawn> (This accessibility requirement is sometimes called sufficient "color contrast"; however, that is incorrect — technically it's "luminance contrast". On this page we use "contrast ratio" as short for "luminance contrast ratio" because it's less jargony.)
15:06:59 <Srini> Srini: says contrast use is required as that's a common problem
15:07:06 <Srini> AWK;: Shawn is in Que
15:07:25 <Srini> Shawn: use word as color conrast is not correct
15:07:53 <Srini> Luminocity contrast
15:07:57 <Wayne> q+
15:08:05 <AWK> ack w
15:08:18 <shawn> s/it's less jargony.)/it's less jargony.) from <http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/preliminary.html#contrast>
15:08:19 <Srini> AWK: let's use illumination and contrast
15:08:38 <Srini> Wayne: Illumination is a function. you need certain amount of contrast. some times too much is bad
15:08:45 <Srini> Wayne: color does a bunch of things
15:09:03 <Srini> Wayne: Color has to be seperate thing. help people with color blindness
15:09:10 <Srini> AWK: Okay
15:09:13 <laura> +1
15:09:21 <Srini> Shawn: Yes yes
15:09:33 <Srini> AWK: Laura indicates +1
15:09:35 <jallan> +1
15:09:56 <Srini> Eric: I admitted my comments in survey.
15:10:03 <Srini> Eric: agrees. illumination
15:10:10 <Srini> AWK: cool
15:10:29 <Srini> Jim: is there a summary?
15:10:45 <Srini> size, field bloss, illumination and contrast, seperate one for color
15:11:00 <Srini> Dick: noise is such a problem
15:11:04 <Srini> clarity is important.
15:11:45 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #lvtf
15:12:03 <AWK> s/Dick:/Wayne:
15:12:09 <Srini> Wayne: when we say field loss, Jim introduced compolication, field of physical and environement.what are we talking about?
15:12:17 <Srini> AWK: related to field loss one?
15:12:25 <Srini> AWK: didn't put in survey yet
15:12:52 <Srini> AWK: field loss is a result only env of field loss. in this, it's physical loss of users ability ability to persue
15:13:22 <Srini> Eric: in my comments I still have issue with that.
15:13:52 <Srini> Shawn: what is the techincal term?
15:13:59 <Srini> spectomma
15:13:59 <jallan> just added islands - technical term is scatoma
15:14:21 <Srini> Wayne: really blurry minus plus centre distributed all over
15:14:26 <shawn> s/Shawn: what is the techincal term?/Katie: what is the technical term?
15:14:34 <Srini> Wayne: unlike retina, big spot.
15:15:14 <Srini> Wayne: trying to stay plain language
15:15:23 <AWK> s/scatoma/Scotoma
15:16:16 <Srini> AWK: we are talking about connection to medical diagnosis. would be using fictual terms.
15:16:28 <Srini> AWK: lot of new words people would be learning
15:16:57 <Srini> Wayne: working on a how people functionally see. hwo it effects web interaction. try and get this into ampology.
15:17:05 <Srini> Wayne: is everyone OK?
15:17:10 <Srini> Katie: good news
15:17:47 <Srini> AWK: we are not overlooking how does WCAG looking at color blindness. technical
15:17:59 <Srini> AWK: this relates shawn, it's about contrast and not color
15:18:09 <Srini> AWK: we need to make sure we are clear about
15:18:15 <Srini> Shawn: I agree
15:18:27 <Srini> AWK: Eric, are you talking about size limitations
15:18:31 <shawn> s/Shawn: I agree/Erich: I agree
15:18:46 <Srini> Eric: we already discussed abou tit. about editors. q: survey, do we need to have any examples
15:18:54 <Srini> Eric: that would have value
15:19:03 <Srini> Eric: soome one needs msaller text
15:19:11 <shawn> q+ to say smaller
15:19:30 <Srini> Eric: smaller would be better for someone. further spacing. I think answer to editors; having specific examples would be helpful
15:19:32 <Srini> AWK: alright
15:19:45 <shawn> ack me
15:19:45 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say smaller
15:20:18 <Srini> Shawn: has a document. easy to read
15:20:36 <Srini> Jim: wayne has ... has the same
15:20:57 <Srini> Jim: if something is too big, trouble to read
15:21:11 <Ryladog> As a way to distinguish COLOR issues, for what we will talk about in LV Extension. 1. Color related to accessibility problems for colorblindness. And separately, Color related to accessibility problems for Low Vision
15:21:15 <shawn> s/ has a document. easy to read/person with good visual acuity but tunnel vision needs smaller text
15:21:25 <Srini> Wayne: different size of headings would be helpful. Eric ?
15:21:41 <Srini> Eric: curious aabout someones field is narrow.
15:21:53 <Srini> Eric: with magnification easier + text wrapping.
15:22:22 <Srini> Eric: Additional thoughts: illumination, meaning his personal experience.
15:22:34 <Srini> Eric: his own condition, find balance. need light
15:22:48 <Srini> Eric: for fuunctional too much light makes uncomfortable
15:23:10 <Srini> Eric: inappropriate use case may be, but if user needs light, suddenly it becomes painful
15:23:21 <Srini> Shawn: it's that's what we need to talk about
15:23:30 <Srini> Shawn: bright medium and dark
15:23:50 <Srini> AwK: capture use cases, perfect examples we should include
15:24:13 <shawn> s/Shawn: it's that's what we need to talk about/Katie: it's that's what we need to talk about
15:24:19 <Ryladog> We should try to work towards user-settable illumination levels
15:24:23 <shawn> s/ Shawn: bright medium and dark/ Katie: bright medium and dark
15:24:30 <Srini> AWK: high degree of availability of users, ratio is x everyone is good. we know someone  find r.2:1 is not enough
15:24:41 <Srini> AWK: absolutely. helpful for wiki
15:24:51 <jallan> +1
15:25:26 <Srini> Eric: largely conversation about a11y complaince matter; shifting to useful for everyone
15:25:45 <Srini> Eric: may be 50 old year people says I can't read my phone
15:26:06 <Srini> Eric: aging poplation struggles and we need to think about
15:26:42 <Srini> AWK: question we are trying to figure out is it that a seperate category or whatever?
15:26:58 <Srini> AWK: we have 4 categores, asking Katie about clarity
15:27:20 <Srini> Katie: I don't reallly know. everyone has their own way; not sure.
15:27:50 <Srini> Katie: not sure how to achieve it. how we can articulate it. thinking o it as addressing needs
15:28:47 <Srini> Katie: talking about visual clarity and that would be about content clarity as well
15:29:01 <Srini> Katie: high resolution, etc., in her mind
15:29:15 <Srini> Shawn: blur?
15:29:36 <shawn> s/Shawn: blur?/@@: blur?
15:29:36 <Srini> Katie: yes, clear fonts, in general whatever needs to be done to clarity. that may not be right word
15:29:45 <shawn> q?
15:30:22 <Srini> AWK: we have centre response better than side, response something like that is clarity.
15:30:25 <jallan> Q+
15:30:52 <Srini> AWK: that may fall under illumination and contrast.
15:31:14 <Srini> Katie: that makes sense
15:31:35 <Srini> Katie: still see needs to be addressed.
15:31:54 <Srini> Katie: don't know just blow up the size, would not address clarity.
15:32:11 <Srini> Katie: any functional stuff. if doesn't something else
15:32:13 <Srini> AWK: right
15:32:28 <Srini> AWK: clarity is the ultimate thing that user want
15:32:54 <Srini> AWK: if it's not clear, you can't use information. use special font, bump up and gets tired
15:33:13 <laura> s/@@: blur?/Laura: I was thinking of clarity as the opposite of blur.
15:34:23 <Srini> elimination adn contrast, color, clarify, field loss, functional limitations
15:35:24 <Srini> Wayne: is there any couple of use cases?
15:35:31 <Srini> Jim: I may
15:35:33 <shawn> [have to drop - sorry]
15:35:42 <Srini> Katie: that's an opportunity; let's do it
15:35:46 <laura> So to summarize I'm gathering: 1. size limitations (acuity) 2. field loss 3. illumination/contrast 4. color
15:35:47 <laura> 5. clarity.  Plus outcome: fatigue
15:36:00 <laura> bye
15:36:01 <Srini> Thanks everyone.
15:36:07 <Srini> Trackbot end meeting
15:36:07 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:36:07 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been MichaelC, Srini, AWK, erich_manser, shawn, Jim, Laura, Katie, Haritos-Shea, Wayne
15:36:14 <Wayne> Wayne has left #lvtf
15:36:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:36:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/07-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
15:36:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:36:16 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
15:36:17 <Srini> trackbot, end meeting
15:36:17 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:36:17 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been MichaelC, Srini, AWK, erich_manser, shawn, Jim, Laura, Katie, Haritos-Shea, Wayne