14:54:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:54:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/06-wai-wcag-irc
14:54:52 <AWK> zakim, what meeting is this?
14:54:52 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, AWK.
14:54:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:54:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:54:56 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:54:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:54:57 <trackbot> Date: 06 October 2015
14:55:11 <AWK> zakim, what meeting is this?
14:55:11 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, AWK.
14:55:37 <AWK> trackbot, what meeting is this?
14:55:37 <trackbot> Sorry, AWK, I don't understand 'trackbot, what meeting is this?'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
14:56:52 <Joshue108> Chair: AWK
14:57:10 <Joshue108> agenda+ Quickref update
14:57:16 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
14:57:16 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
14:57:17 <Zakim> 5. Techniques items survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20150922Survey/ [from AWK]
14:57:17 <Zakim> 7. Quickref update [from Joshue108]
14:57:32 <Joshue108> agenda+ Cognitive TF update
14:57:46 <Joshue108> agenda+ Low Vision TF update
14:59:08 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:01 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:49 <AWK> zakim, agenda?
15:01:49 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:01:50 <Zakim> 5. Techniques items survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20150922Survey/ [from AWK]
15:01:50 <Zakim> 7. Quickref update [from Joshue108]
15:01:50 <Zakim> 8. Cognitive TF update [from Joshue108]
15:01:50 <Zakim> 9. Low Vision TF update [from Joshue108]
15:01:56 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
15:02:23 <AWK> zakim, close item 45
15:02:23 <Zakim> I only see 9 items on the agenda
15:02:24 <Kathy> present+ Kathy
15:02:29 <Joshue108> zakim, clear agenda
15:02:29 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:02:41 <Joshue108> agenda+ Quickref update
15:02:45 <Joshue108> agenda+ Cognitive TF update
15:02:48 <Joshue108> agenda+ Low Vision TF update
15:02:58 <Joshue108> agenda+ Extension Requirements Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/extension_req/
15:04:08 <Ryladog_> Ryladog_ has joined #wai-wcag
15:04:17 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:04:54 <Joshue108> Scribenick: Katie
15:05:03 <Ryladog_> zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:05:03 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Ryladog_
15:05:22 <AWK> +AWK
15:05:37 <Ryladog_> Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea
15:05:39 <David> +David_MacDonald
15:05:39 <yatil> present+ EricE
15:05:47 <Ryladog_> ScribeNick: Ryladog
15:05:48 <marcjohlic> present+ marcjohlic
15:05:49 <Joshue108> present+ Joshue108
15:05:58 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
15:06:10 <Ryladog_> Chair: Andrew Kirkpatrick
15:06:17 <laura> present+ Laura
15:06:19 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
15:06:43 <Ryladog_> zakim, next item
15:06:45 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Quickref update" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:06:47 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 1
15:06:47 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Quickref update" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:07:03 <yatil> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0258.html
15:07:06 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #wai-wcag
15:07:31 <Wayne> Wayne+
15:07:53 <Ryladog_> EE:Everthing from last week is the same. I appreciate the feedback. Proto works better inChrome now. Checkbox on the left side is better but not finished
15:07:54 <David> drop in link please
15:08:28 <Ryladog_> EE: We will improve that in the future. There are filtering of columns with help text
15:09:21 <Lisa_Seeman> Lisa_Seeman has joined #wai-wcag
15:09:27 <Ryladog_> EE: We are fixing bugs and optimizing the icons in thi last stretch. We started browser testing. Im offline as of tomorrow. Set issues if you seeany
15:09:29 <Lisa_Seeman> +
15:09:37 <Ryladog_> EE: Dont forget about tagging.
15:10:17 <Ryladog_> EE:We are addressing some of the things that folks proposed, Also some stuff from Katie and David.
15:10:57 <Ryladog_> EE: We have the current QuicjRef with some serious introductory text there - please give us input here....
15:11:14 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
15:11:47 <Ryladog_> DM: I see a different look for a disabled interactive contol. Is that a new thing for low vision.
15:11:58 <Ryladog_> EE: Yes that is why I did that
15:12:20 <Ryladog_> DM: That could be a nice new convention - but as is it looks a bit confusing
15:12:31 <AWK> http://w3c.github.io/wai-wcag-quickref/?currentsidebar=%23col_customize
15:13:17 <Ryladog_> I like this ideaEric!!
15:13:45 <Ryladog_> WD: It usually means when it is crossed out means it doesnt count
15:13:55 <Ryladog_> AWK: I amnot sure it s clear
15:14:14 <Ryladog_> AWK: Maybe use Clear All
15:14:53 <Ryladog_> WD: Maybe Select All or Select None
15:15:44 <Ryladog_> AWK: That would work for the Levels, Technologies and Techniques - but I  don't think it would work here on tags
15:16:00 <Ryladog_> DM: What if we just make it dissappear?
15:16:43 <Ryladog_> DM: It is OK to have it disabled with low contast
15:17:51 <Ryladog_> AWK; Thanks eric
15:18:01 <yatil> s/AWK;/AWK:/
15:18:03 <Ryladog_> zakim, next item
15:18:04 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Cognitive TF update" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:18:11 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 2
15:18:11 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Cognitive TF update" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:18:39 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
15:19:03 <Ryladog_> LS: Our shratch board is open and in public - here is our wiki Home Page inthe What We Are Working On
15:19:20 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/links-buttons.html
15:19:37 <yatil> present+ Lisa_Seeman
15:19:48 <Ryladog_> LS: We are behind in our schedules. We have 2 new things. One is adding ARIA adding semantics
15:19:49 <Lisa_Seeman> https://github.com/ayelet-seeman/coga.personalisation
15:19:52 <yatil> s/present+jon_avila/present+ jon_avila/
15:20:12 <Ryladog_> LS: This is an opensoure project by people fro the group
15:20:30 <Joshue108> q?
15:20:35 <Ryladog_> LS: That is one thing...
15:20:46 <Lisa_Seeman>  https://rawgit.com/ayelet-seeman/coga.personalisation/demo/conactUs.html
15:21:13 <Ryladog_> LS: These are being able to create techiniques to add JSON personalized
15:21:44 <Ryladog_> LS: Whne they can personalized the rendering without having to code additiona apges
15:22:33 <Ryladog_> LS: there is a SmartMD which is for Dementia - and they re looking at adopting this idea that we hac for the JSON personalozation and ARIA idea
15:22:33 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposal_for_WCAG
15:23:21 <Ryladog_> LS: This is our new dab at a Cognitive extension for WCAG. Please look at it, let use knw how it looks
15:23:56 <Ryladog_> LS; We have not solved evrything but it is all based on real research- please letus know
15:24:07 <Joshue108> q?
15:24:11 <Joshue108> q+
15:24:19 <Ryladog_> LS:The problemwith out Techniques document is very longand has some of the same information
15:24:36 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/techniques/index.html
15:24:51 <Ryladog_> LS;We tried to think of ways to include these
15:25:13 <Lisa_Seeman>  https://w3c.github.io/wcag/coga/user-research.html
15:25:54 <Ryladog_> LS: We have 2 other document. Use Research and the White Papers. The User Research has  specific areas but with things that cross them
15:26:19 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/index.html.
15:26:24 <Ryladog_> LS: This group wnats to talk about real users
15:27:03 <Ryladog_> LS: The other important set of documents are called Issue Papers, such as Security, Privacy, Payments etc
15:27:31 <Ryladog_> LS: There is agreat set of docs there. Multimedia is not ready
15:27:52 <Ryladog_> LS: This content has been wellresearch
15:28:00 <Ryladog_> JO: Thanks LIsa
15:29:11 <Ryladog_> JO: I am unsure - you have an extension and a proposal for an extension
15:29:36 <AWK> The extension is not for WCAG it is for ARIA (https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/links-buttons.html)
15:29:55 <Ryladog_> LS: There is also this proposal for ARIA and some of the techniques rely on Adaptivity - which is the ARIA suggetsion
15:30:04 <AWK> The proposal (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposal_for_WCAG) is a proto-extension for WCAG
15:30:31 <Ryladog_> LS: One is with the ARIA adaptivity and one is without
15:30:38 <AWK> WCAG members should read the proposal and we can share comments with Lisa and Cognitive TF
15:31:17 <Ryladog_> LS: There is a new product tht people will be paying for usingthe imlementation of the ARIA Adaptivity
15:31:56 <Ryladog_> JO: So the PF Cognitive TFis that it?
15:32:42 <Ryladog_> LS: For WCAG and this proposal is a very early draft of what we would pass over to you as a recommendation for WCAG
15:33:02 <Ryladog_> JO: The Issue Papers links buttons is parts ofthe proposal?
15:33:43 <Ryladog_> LS: WCAG Proposal is based on Issue Papers, Research Document and Techniques
15:34:04 <Ryladog_> LS: There is one for WCAG and there is one for ARIA
15:34:21 <Ryladog_> JO:The personalization thing - hw does that fitin to WCAG?
15:34:46 <Joshue108> q?
15:34:49 <Joshue108> ack jo
15:34:53 <Ryladog_> LS;It is semi-independent - but it is being doneby folks inthe TF
15:35:57 <Ryladog_> LS: One of the first thing we are saying is Enable Adaptivity - now you canuse headers and landamarks - but there are new things coming using ARIA andJSAN
15:36:12 <Ryladog_> JO: Sounds great - do you have timeline?
15:36:18 <Ryladog_> LS:It is late
15:36:34 <Ryladog_> LS;There will be changes
15:36:54 <Joshue108> q?
15:37:00 <Ryladog_> JO: Can we say that then by the end of the month for review?
15:37:03 <Ryladog_> LS: yes
15:37:05 <Wayne> q+
15:37:19 <Ryladog_> DM:I rally like the extension to wai-aria
15:37:59 <Ryladog_> DM: Howcan we require that in a SC - maybe we could say you need to provide an ImportanceLevel
15:38:29 <Ryladog_> DM: We can say somethin like Headings - so maybe - we could do somethng like that
15:38:56 <Ryladog_> LS: We can say - Make the content Adaptabe - and then ARI IMPORTANT could e a techique
15:39:23 <Ryladog_> LS: There is a very clear way according to the ARIA spec
15:39:26 <MichaelC> q+ JamesN
15:39:38 <Ryladog_> LS: We are backing away from the RDF
15:39:55 <Ryladog_> LS: RDF is not as Well supported
15:40:03 <yatil> s/LS;/LS: /G
15:40:13 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:40:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/06-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
15:40:57 <Ryladog_> DM: The WCAG language is 'the state of something is what it is when tested' so the equivilant forthis would be "the content is adaptable"
15:41:09 <yatil> s/ScribeNick: Ryladog/ScribeNick: Ryladog_/
15:41:11 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:41:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/06-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
15:41:25 <Ryladog_> DM:'is provided' is a very common wording
15:41:39 <Ryladog_> AWK: lets provide this feedback on the comments
15:41:43 <Ryladog_> DM' OK
15:41:56 <Ryladog_> LS: Anyone can send comments
15:42:03 <yatil> s/DM'/DM:/
15:42:12 <David> lisa can you provide your email in irc
15:42:19 <yatil> s/+AWK/present+ AWK/
15:42:42 <Lisa_Seeman> lisa.seeman@zoho.com
15:42:42 <AWK> ack jamesN
15:42:50 <Lisa_Seeman> skype:lisaseeman
15:42:59 <yatil> s/+David_MacDonald/present+ David_MacDonald/
15:43:07 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:43:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/06-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
15:43:11 <Joshue108> q?
15:43:56 <Ryladog_> JN: A few words of caution - for email ARIA-important is not the same thing toall peopleand all customers - we may not know wht is important to whom
15:44:28 <Ryladog_> JN: Personalization really adds the nghtmare for testing
15:44:32 <Ryladog_> q+
15:44:47 <AWK> ack wa
15:44:49 <Joshue108> s/toall people/to all people
15:44:59 <Lisa_Seeman> q+
15:46:00 <Ryladog_> WD: I was thinkingabout the ARIA too. ARIA hidden well they cant see this anyway - not thinking tht many using ARIA can see. It is not taking this into account. How are we going to get peple to do this
15:46:21 <Joshue108> s/peple/people
15:46:24 <Ryladog_> WD: The Persoanization things is really important and how we will be able toget this done
15:46:35 <Joshue108> s/thinkingabout/thinking about
15:46:59 <Ryladog_> WD: Precise numbers is about all people needing accomodation
15:47:09 <AWK> ack ry
15:47:12 <Joshue108> s/toget/ to get
15:47:14 <Joshue108> ack kat
15:47:43 <Joshue108> KHS: Personalisation is already in play with a lot of organisations.
15:47:51 <AWK> ack lisa
15:47:53 <Joshue108> KHS: Its more complex sure, but I wouldn't let that stop us.
15:49:01 <Ryladog_> LS: it can be a nightmare - all weare doing is adding the ARIA - the implementation project it is like testingthing....we have script that reads in user setting and browser
15:50:11 <Ryladog_> LS: The author can pull in the script that says inmy enviroment this cant be done. we can amke a few extremes using JSON and peoplecan test against those profiles - that maywell be in the framework of these recommended settngs
15:50:14 <David> q+
15:50:23 <AWK> zakim, close queue
15:50:23 <Zakim> ok, AWK, the speaker queue is closed
15:50:58 <Ryladog_> LS:Thevariations will be those kind so fsetting, For ARIA important theontent isall there- but the user can get to the additional settings.
15:51:47 <Ryladog_> LS: it can accommodate a cascading approach
15:51:48 <AWK> ack dav
15:52:50 <Ryladog_> DM: Important - that is why we went to levels in WCAG. Maybe you want to call it ARIA persnailzed and then just add a number - or someother word
15:53:15 <Ryladog_> Interesting thought David
15:53:39 <Ryladog_> AWK: please look at the proposals
15:53:50 <David> aria-personalization=1, =2, =3, =4, =5
15:54:04 <Ryladog_> zakim, next item
15:54:05 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Low Vision TF update" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:54:06 <AWK> Zakim, take up next item
15:54:06 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, AWK
15:54:48 <AWK> LVTF Wiki: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
15:55:04 <Ryladog_> AWK: We have just gotten started, Jima Allen and I are the co-facilitators - we have a wiki where we are just starting to gather information
15:56:00 <Ryladog_> AWK: There will be a User Needs and Requirements document that will eventually turn into an Extension proposal
15:56:04 <AWK> Zakim, take up next item
15:56:05 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Extension Requirements Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/extension_req/" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:56:26 <yatil> Congratulations on getting the TF started!! 🎉
15:56:31 <Wayne> scribe, wayne
15:56:44 <Wayne> scribe: wayne
15:56:47 <yatil> s/scribe,/scribe:/
15:57:28 <Wayne> Extension Requirements Survey
15:57:41 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/extension_req/results
15:57:47 <MichaelC> s/scribe: wayne/scribe: Wayne/
15:57:59 <AWK> Draft: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_Extensions_Framework
15:58:05 <MichaelC> s/Extension Requirements Survey/topic: Extension Requirements Survey/
15:58:50 <Wayne> AWK: The point of this is owning and refining the doucment.
16:00:07 <David> http://davidmacd.com/blog/WCAG-extension-proposed-integration-into-WCAG.html
16:00:20 <Wayne> AWK: Incorporate WCAG by reference... and all . Josh proposed leaving out redundant and outdated items out.
16:02:33 <AWK> Requirements for WCAG 2.0: http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2-req/
16:02:49 <Wayne> MichaelC: If we say we are not going to follow WCAG 2.0 exactly then we will run into serious controversy.
16:04:26 <Wayne> AWK: Write to a more diverse audience, is a requirement from legacy, but still helps wit ambiguities.
16:06:00 <Wayne> Topic: Wording Changes Item 2
16:07:42 <Wayne> AWK: In this extension #Ensure that WCAG 2+EX conform to WCAG 2.
16:08:32 <Wayne> s/#Enssure/ensure
16:08:33 <David> Change "An existing success criteria may change in priority from level AA to level A, but not the other way around" to An existing success criteria may change in priority from level AA to level A, or AAA to AA (A) but not the other way around
16:08:40 <Lisa_Seeman> q+
16:09:50 <Wayne> Lisa: Offer modifications to techniques and success criteria... include success criteria
16:10:06 <David> q+
16:10:38 <yatil> s/include success criteria/include guidelines/
16:10:50 <Wayne> AWK: That 2 need to add that we might include new guidelines not just success criteria
16:13:55 <Wayne> Lisa: Concern - Text in images is really useful for cognitive. So there are conflicts. Make it expandable.  An accommodation may conflict.
16:15:17 <Wayne> AWK: A new sc says don't use text in images ever... you are not breaking WCAG 2
16:16:12 <Joshue108> q?
16:16:17 <Joshue108> ack lisa
16:16:40 <Wayne> AWK: Are there use cases that conflict... Editors are looking at division that extend all the way to a new version of WCAG 2.1, 3...
16:18:24 <Wayne> Lisa: There are pages with a video, but captioning add times,
16:19:07 <Wayne> Josh: We must think about what is already there. Be aware of the interconnected web of cases.
16:20:06 <AWK> ack david
16:21:27 <Wayne> David: See Comment before.
16:21:34 <Lisa_Seeman> q+
16:22:11 <AWK> ack wayne
16:22:42 <Kathy> q+
16:23:04 <yatil> Wayne: WCAG might get in trouble if it specifies something that fixes it for one group only, and I think we need to address that.
16:23:41 <yatil> AWK: Do you think there are things in WCAG that are not desireable for all end users?
16:24:18 <yatil> Wayne: I think so, we need to make sure that we don’t have something that benefits one group and exclude others.
16:25:07 <yatil> AWK: Current proposal says you cannot remove success criteria unless you replace it with a stronger SC. Also the SC could also be moved.
16:25:58 <yatil> Wayne: What I wanted to say is: you can use this to meet 4.5:1 contrast ratio or you can do this…
16:27:00 <Lisa_Seeman> i think i have a brake
16:27:20 <Joshue108> q?
16:27:20 <AWK> ack lisa
16:27:28 <yatil> James: It is written pretty carefully, I think we can cater for this. In addition: I think that such things could be addressed by user customization.
16:28:17 <yatil> s/i think i have a brake//
16:28:36 <Kathy> got to go - I hope we can continue this discussion next week
16:29:47 <AWK> We will, thanks Kathy.  Sorry we couldn't get to you.
16:30:35 <David> I think this OK, because at least one alternative would conform or the origiginal would conform
16:30:40 <Mike_Elledge> Me, too. But this seems on track to me!
16:31:33 <Wayne> Lisa: In wcag 2.0 making functionality in the same functionality. Multiple messages can be said for when a alarm goes off. Don't want to break if there is information for one group instead of others.
16:32:05 <Wayne> David: I don't see how this use case breaks WCAG 2.0.
16:32:17 <David> got to go....
16:32:44 <Wayne> AWK: Could you send the present scenario.  We cannot process in the time we have left.
16:32:57 <laura> Bye. Got to go.
16:33:16 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/extension_req/
16:33:34 <yatil> i/Wayne: WCAG might get in/scribenick: yatil/
16:33:55 <yatil> i/Lisa: In wcag 2.0/scribenick: Wayne/
16:34:06 <Wayne> trackbot, end meeting
16:34:06 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:34:06 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AWK, wayne, EricE, Laura, Kathy, marcjohlic, MichaelC, David_MacDonald, jon_avila, JamesN, Joshue108, Lisa_Seeman
16:34:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:34:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/06-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
16:34:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:34:15 <RRSAgent> I see no action items