17:03:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
17:03:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/05-aria-apg-irc
17:03:40 <MichielBijl> present+ Michiel_Bijl
17:03:50 <IanPouncey> present+ IanPouncey
17:03:55 <MichielBijl> present+ Ann_Abbott
17:05:20 <mck> Agenda+ Pattern work status page update https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status
17:05:22 <mck> Agenda+ Toolbar pattern review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#toolbar
17:05:23 <mck> Agenda+ Landmark navigation pattern review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#landmarks
17:05:53 <jamesn> agenda?
17:07:38 <jamesn> Meeting: ARIA APG TF
17:07:59 <jamesn> zakim, who is on the call?
17:07:59 <Zakim> Present: James_Nurthen, Bryan_Garaventa, Matt_King, JamesNurthen, AnnAbbott, JemmaJaEunKu, Raghu, Michiel_Bijl, IanPouncey, Ann_Abbott
17:08:01 <mck> present+ matt_king
17:08:02 <jemmaku> jemmaku has joined #aria-apg
17:08:20 <MichielBijl> MichielBijl has changed the topic to: WAI-PF ARIA Authoring Practices Guide Taskforce
17:08:30 <jamesn> zakim, who is on the call?
17:08:30 <Zakim> Present: James_Nurthen, Bryan_Garaventa, Matt_King, JamesNurthen, AnnAbbott, JemmaJaEunKu, Raghu, Michiel_Bijl, IanPouncey, Ann_Abbott
17:08:46 <jamesn> present- James_Nurthen, Bryan_Garaventa
17:09:00 <jamesn> present-  AnnAbbott
17:09:04 <jamesn> zakim, who is on the call?
17:09:04 <Zakim> Present: Matt_King, JamesNurthen, JemmaJaEunKu, Raghu, Michiel_Bijl, IanPouncey, Ann_Abbott
17:09:54 <jamesn> scribe: annabbott
17:09:55 <annabbott> scribe: Ann_Abbott
17:10:16 <jamesn> rrsagent, make log world
17:10:54 <annabbott> zakim, next item
17:10:54 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Pattern work status page update https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status" taken up [from mck]
17:11:25 <annabbott> Matt: discuss where we are with example development
17:13:04 <annabbott> Michiel: remove or remark all example code except Alert
17:13:23 <annabbott> James made the edit
17:13:59 <annabbott> Matt: first column needs tabpanel & treeview as Reviewed
17:15:28 <annabbott> Jemma finished checkbox (3 examples) and Jon will review for next week, then move on to radio button
17:16:07 <annabbott> Jemma will review tri-state checkbox with Jon
17:17:09 <annabbott> Jemma: Jon will review tri-state checkbox
17:17:34 <annabbott> Matt: any other table updates needed?
17:17:39 <annabbott> crickets
17:17:55 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria-apg
17:17:58 <annabbott> zakim, next item
17:17:58 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Landmark navigation pattern review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#landmarks" taken up [from mck]
17:18:14 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
17:18:43 <annabbott> Ian will draft coding practices
17:18:46 <MichielBijl> MichielBijl has joined #aria-apg
17:20:52 <jamesn> zakim, take up item 2
17:20:52 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Toolbar pattern review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#toolbar" taken up [from mck]
17:22:02 <annabbott> Matt: next week add to agenda coding practices for examples
17:23:05 <annabbott> Michiel: I'd by HAPPY for you to take over as scribe!
17:23:15 <MichielBijl> scribe: MichielBijl
17:23:26 <annabbott> MILLION THANKS!
17:24:06 <MichielBijl> Matt: in terms of expectation, Jemma, do you think your checkbox example will be ready next week?
17:24:12 <MichielBijl> jemmaku: yes
17:26:46 <MichielBijl> Matt: is the description to desktop-land orientated?
17:29:06 <MichielBijl> A collection of commonly used function buttons or controls represented in compact visual form.
17:29:06 <MichielBijl> The toolbar is often a subset of functions found in a menubar, designed to reduce user effort in using these functions. Authors must supply a label on each toolbar when the application contains more than one toolbar.
17:29:06 <MichielBijl> Authors may manage focus of descendants for all instances of this role, as described in Managing Focus.
17:29:22 <MichielBijl> jamesn: some problems with toolbars
17:29:40 <MichielBijl> jamesn: people want to put more than buttons in toolbars; like textfields or dropdowns
17:30:30 <MichielBijl> jamesn: how does this work with keyboard interaction; left and right arrows in a textbox behave different than in the toolbar itself
17:30:43 <MichielBijl> Matt: is there a restriction on the content of a toolbar?
17:30:45 <MichielBijl> jamesn: no
17:31:23 <MichielBijl> Matt: does it make sense to have it in the toolbar?
17:31:32 <MichielBijl> jamesn: the UI designer want's to put it there
17:31:44 <MichielBijl> bgaraventa1979: then it's not a toolbar
17:32:11 <MichielBijl> bgaraventa1979: AT will announce the number of buttons in a toolbar
17:32:35 <MichielBijl> bgaraventa1979: putting in other stuff will mess up the count
17:32:41 <MichielBijl> jamesn: isn't that a AT problem?
17:32:52 <MichielBijl> yes
17:35:30 <MichielBijl> Matt: it could be grouped in a grid (toolbar and other stuff like search fields)
17:35:36 <MichielBijl> jamesn: I'm very much against that
17:36:04 <MichielBijl> bgaraventa1979: you could use a region; you have quick navigation
17:36:33 <MichielBijl> jamesn: the problem is that you then get inefficient keyboard navigation
17:42:54 <MichielBijl> bgaraventa1979 this is what you meant right: http://codepen.io/Michiel/pen/ZbKbLo.html
17:43:01 <jemmaku> +question
17:43:50 <MichielBijl> +question
17:44:51 <MichielBijl> IanPouncey: problem with aria is recognising how to use it. Mixing input methods makes it harder.
17:45:36 <MichielBijl> Matt: that is why I advocate that people don't put stuff inside a toolbar that capture arrow keys.
17:51:34 <mck> mck has joined #aria-apg
17:51:44 <MichielBijl> http://codepen.io/Michiel/pen/ZbKbLo.html
17:51:50 <MichielBijl> http://codepen.io/Michiel/pen/ZbKbLo
17:52:15 <MichielBijl> http://s.codepen.io/Michiel/debug/ZbKbLo
17:54:53 <MichielBijl> Matt: so if we are going to advocate this as a best practise, then I guess, this would require a complete rewrite of the description in APG.
17:57:47 <MichielBijl> Matt: we could take the first line from the ARIA spec and extend that.
17:58:12 <MichielBijl> Matt: would a spinbutton be something you would find in a toolbar?
17:58:29 <MichielBijl> jamesn: for stuff like font-size, indent-size, etc
17:58:40 <MichielBijl> Matt: could you use a dropdown in a toolbar?
17:59:03 <MichielBijl> jamesn: as long as you use a pure selectbox (so no combobox)
18:03:09 <MichielBijl> jamesn: I'll add a bug for toolbar
18:03:27 <MichielBijl> Matt: I don't mind writing toolbar
18:04:24 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:04:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/05-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
18:04:25 <jemmaku> so do we use div role region for tool bar?
18:04:57 <MichielBijl> Uhm, yeah that is what is there, but I'd have to have it checked more thoroughly.
18:05:04 <MichielBijl> I think Matt just gave it a quick once over
18:05:12 <jemmaku> ok
18:05:14 <jemmaku> thanks.
18:05:31 <MichielBijl> But that was what Bryan suggested during the call :)
18:05:48 <jemmaku> yeah
18:05:59 <jemmaku> I think it is a good idea.
18:06:01 <MichielBijl> chair: Matt_King
18:06:06 <jemmaku> Thanks for scribing today
18:06:11 <jemmaku> I will talk to you later
18:06:12 <MichielBijl> Allows for quick access via keyboard
18:06:30 <MichielBijl> No problem! Was that the question you wanted to ask when you entered the que?
18:06:43 <jemmaku> it was about region role for toolbar
18:06:53 <MichielBijl> Yeah okay :)
18:07:04 <jemmaku> we can have sevral regions. right?
18:07:09 <MichielBijl> Yes
18:07:12 <jemmaku> multiple regions
18:08:03 <MichielBijl> regrets+ Jon_Gunderson
18:08:17 <MichielBijl> Yep, you can have multiple; probably should limit it though
18:08:23 <MichielBijl> scribeOptions: -final
18:08:28 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:08:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/05-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
18:10:08 <MichielBijl> I have to go, but looking forward to your code examples :)
18:10:12 <MichielBijl> Bye!
18:21:55 <jamesn> zakim, please part
18:21:55 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Michiel_Bijl, Matt_king, Jon_Gunderson, James_Nurthen, Bryan_Garaventa, JaEun_Jemma_Ku, JaEunJemmaKu, JamesNurthen, AnnAbbott,
18:21:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-apg
18:21:58 <Zakim> ... JemmaJaEunKu, Raghu, IanPouncey, Ann_Abbott
18:22:02 <jamesn> rrsagent, please part
18:22:02 <RRSAgent> I see no action items