12:54:15 RRSAgent has joined #sdw 12:54:15 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/23-sdw-irc 12:54:17 RRSAgent, make logs world 12:54:17 Zakim has joined #sdw 12:54:19 Zakim, this will be SDW 12:54:19 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 12:54:20 Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference 12:54:20 Date: 23 September 2015 12:55:41 kerry has changed the topic to: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150923 12:56:25 Payam has joined #sdw 12:56:36 present+ kerry 12:56:42 rrsagent, make logs public 12:57:14 chair: kerry 12:57:17 eparsons has joined #sdw 12:57:27 present+ Payam 12:57:35 frans has joined #sdw 12:57:50 Linda has joined #sdw 12:59:04 present+ Linda 12:59:10 scribe: frans 12:59:17 scribenick: frans 12:59:19 present+ frans 13:00:57 Alejandro_Llaves has joined #sdw 13:01:07 jonblower has joined #sdw 13:01:10 jtandy has joined #sdw 13:01:19 present+ Alejandro_Llaves 13:01:29 present+ jtandy 13:02:00 present+ jonblower 13:02:07 present+ eparsons 13:02:20 [apologies, slightly distracted today, trying to multitask on an urgent issue!] 13:02:33 present+ billroberts 13:02:52 aharth has joined #sdw 13:02:54 regrets: Bart, Rachel, Simon, Josh 13:02:58 present+ aharth 13:02:59 ahaller2 has joined #sdw 13:03:13 MattPerry has joined #sdw 13:03:31 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150923#Main_agenda 13:03:39 regrets+ phila 13:03:52 AZ has joined #sdw 13:03:58 chair: kerry 13:04:17 http://www.w3.org/2015/09/16-sdw-minutes.html 13:04:17 topic: last meetingś minutes 13:04:25 +1 13:04:27 +1 13:04:27 +1 13:04:33 +1 13:04:36 present+ MattPerry 13:04:38 +1 13:04:43 +1 13:04:47 +1 13:04:53 proposed: approve last meetings minutes 13:04:57 present+ ahaller2 13:05:12 resolved: minutes accepted 13:05:24 topic: patent call 13:05:27 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call 13:06:43 kerry: we have lost Lewis as a BP editor 13:06:53 PhilippeThiran has joined #sdw 13:07:01 present+ AZ 13:07:05 ... two editors are present: jtandy and payam 13:07:15 topic: linking theme in BP 13:07:20 topic: bp linking 13:07:22 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Consolidated_Narratives#linking_data 13:07:30 present+ PhilippeThiran 13:07:55 kerry hands over to jtandy 13:07:58 q? 13:08:30 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Linking_Data#Best_Practice_theme:_Linking_Data 13:08:49 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Linking_Data 13:09:09 jtandy: made a page with questions about linking spatial data 13:09:58 ... related to the ´identifier´ and ´semantics´ themes 13:10:29 ... would be happy if other people contribute to the wiki page 13:11:41 +1 13:11:42 q+ why not link kml, gml? 13:11:43 +1 13:11:47 +1 13:11:51 q+ 13:11:52 +1 13:11:53 q? 13:13:02 frans: are HTML pages with embedded data considered structured data? 13:13:20 ack aharth 13:13:23 jtandy: yes, the embedded data are structured data 13:14:03 ed: agrees, challenge is to make implicit data on htmkl pages explicit 13:14:31 +1 13:14:36 s/htmkl/html 13:15:46 jtandy: letś encourage best practices regardless of data format 13:15:55 q? 13:16:36 jtandy: Where do links commonly occur? 13:17:59 jtandy: please add more items to the list 13:18:01 q+ to ask about how to do this 13:18:43 kerry: please identify who you are when you add to the wiki page 13:18:44 [jtandy] 13:18:53 LarsG has joined #sdw 13:19:08 jtandy: we could use prefixes (if you are not jtandy) 13:19:50 ack kerry 13:19:50 kerry, you wanted to ask about how to do this 13:19:53 present+ LarsG 13:20:25 links also commonly occur in metadata 13:20:38 I need to mull it over but will add thoughts to the wiki - thanks jeremy 13:20:39 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Consolidated_Narratives#linking_data for lars -- we are here 13:20:44 subtopic: what should I link to? 13:21:20 q+ 13:21:34 ack jon 13:21:38 q+ 13:22:10 jonblower: things could end up having two IDs 13:22:40 ... clarifying the difference between both types of resources would be helpful 13:22:56 ack eparsons 13:24:44 eparsons: likes to reinforces Jon´s point, the thing itself is more important than its spatial representation 13:24:46 +1 to ed 13:25:33 kerry: identifiers is a different topic, so we need links between these two topics 13:25:55 jtandy agrees 13:26:47 jtandy: how do you link to things that do not have a URI? 13:26:50 q+ 13:26:52 q+ 13:27:05 ack jon 13:27:05 eparsons hopes an answer is not expected 13:27:50 ack andreas 13:27:57 q+ 13:28:09 jon: do not have a answer but notes that hashtags can be made by the public and used as indentifiers 13:28:25 ??: blank nodes could be used 13:28:27 q+ 13:28:36 ack aharth 13:28:49 ack larsG 13:29:06 q+ 13:29:12 (maybe I should say used for a similar role as identifiers. I didn't mean that hashtags are proper identifiers by themsleves. Just an example that the community will create these "anchors" if they don't exist) 13:29:42 q+ 13:29:49 LarsG: hashtags are not good as identifiers. They are not specific enough 13:30:06 ... they do not uniquely identify places 13:30:35 ack kerry 13:31:30 kerry: firstly: twitters hashtags are a bad idea because they are not persistent 13:31:34 q+ 13:31:54 ... secondly: why not create a new ID if you are unable to find an exsiting one? 13:31:58 q+ 13:32:04 ack eparsons 13:32:16 jtandy: people sometimes are too lazy to find existing IDs 13:33:01 eparsons: much data are powered by wikidata. So why not contribute to the source wiki? 13:33:14 ack jon 13:33:31 jtandy :lalalala 13:34:26 jon: there is a big community that use hashtags to link things. It is not a good practice, but it is happening. 13:34:39 ack aharth 13:34:48 Agree with Jon we need to acknowledge the community in developing links 13:34:51 ... we need to be aware that not all practices can be top down 13:36:19 aharth: describes a dataset where blank nodes are used to group data, with possibilty of improvement later 13:36:50 ack billroberts 13:37:45 billroberts: best practices should be realistic, describe ways of working with non ideal data. 13:38:09 ... unprecise data are still valuable. 13:38:29 jtandy agrees 13:38:52 aharth: i'd suggest to look at schema.org for inspiration re linking without identifiers 13:39:08 q? 13:39:17 +1 to schema.org 13:39:19 imprecise != not useful 13:39:25 jtandy: we should work with real world content and encourage better practices 13:39:40 subtopic: what do links mean? 13:40:38 jtandy: please add your thoughts to the wiki and add your name 13:40:50 subtopic: How can I describe links in my format of choice? 13:41:37 subtopic: What else links to my subject of interest? 13:42:42 billroberts: reference area is often a dimension in data cubes 13:43:15 ... it works with one or a few SPARQL endpoints 13:43:35 ... but on the full web it becomes difficult 13:43:45 ... catalogs could be part of the solution. 13:44:02 q+ 13:44:11 (Sorry, got to go now, but referencing a conversation from earlier in the call, I was trying to articulate the difference between Spatial Objects and Spatial Things, as described in https://data.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Designing_URI_Sets_for_Location-V1.0_10.pdf. These were the "two identifiers for the same thing" that I was trying to explain.) 13:44:15 ack eparsons 13:44:57 eparsons: public catalog of places and relations between places can be useful 13:45:57 ... but we need to accept that there are risks and complexities when working with spatial references in statistical data 13:47:07 q? 13:48:07 subtopic: How can I manage links between sets of things (so that I don't have to manage individual links)? 13:48:24 jtandy: how can we make this easier? 13:48:56 subtopic: How can third parties assert links and relationships (and should I trust their assertions?) 13:49:44 jtandy: how valid or trustworthy are spatial assertions on the web? 13:50:31 q+ 13:50:32 q+ 13:51:08 eparsons: how can we can keep this discussion going? 13:51:32 q- 13:51:47 +1 13:51:54 jtandy: we could make an e-mail thread for each subtopic 13:52:01 esparsons: likes the idea 13:52:03 ack frans 13:52:04 +1 13:52:19 q? 13:52:23 ack linda 13:52:39 linda: nice work by jtandy 13:53:05 ... but we have to keep things in scope (i.e. only spatial) 13:53:16 recall invittion to pass generic thing to data on the web 13:53:56 s/invittion/invitation/ 13:54:13 jtandy: yes, at some point we have to cut off 13:54:28 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Structure_Examples#Summary_points 13:55:19 topic: Review submitted examples of best practice narratives 13:55:59 q+ 13:56:09 jtandy: please read this page react 13:56:16 ack linda 13:56:50 linda: the examples I added were provided by Simeon Nedkov 13:57:33 action: jtandy to create thread for each linking theme 13:57:33 Created ACTION-79 - Create thread for each linking theme [on Jeremy Tandy - due 2015-09-30]. 13:57:40 +1 13:57:41 +1 13:57:51 ACTION: jtandy to create e-mail threads for each linking subtopic 13:57:51 Created ACTION-80 - Create e-mail threads for each linking subtopic [on Jeremy Tandy - due 2015-09-30]. 13:58:11 +1 sounds like we have quite a bit of discussion to do, so email first then a wiki summary if we reach some consensus? 13:58:57 topic: Prepare for seasonal time changes (starting October) 13:59:08 kerry: lost my IRC 13:59:59 ... suggest to go back to old times (Australian summer) 14:01:16 eparsons: let us pick times that work well for Asia and Europe 14:01:35 eparsons: Australia is part of Asia 14:02:03 kerry: will put the new times on the mailing list. 14:03:06 kerry has joined #sdw 14:03:21 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=SDWWG+Call&iso=20150211T20&ah=1 14:03:53 bye all 14:04:07 bye, thx 14:04:12 kerry: closes the meeting 14:04:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:04:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/23-sdw-minutes.html kerry 14:04:13 thanks, bye! 14:04:16 bye 14:04:16 thanks frans 14:04:24 thanks, bye 14:04:27 my pleasure 14:05:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:05:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/23-sdw-minutes.html kerry 14:05:21 bye! 14:05:38 bye! 14:07:14 rrsagent, make logs public