14:57:00 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag 14:57:00 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/22-wai-wcag-irc 14:57:02 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:57:02 Zakim has joined #wai-wcag 14:57:04 Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG 14:57:04 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 14:57:05 Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 14:57:05 Date: 22 September 2015 14:57:21 Chair: AWK 14:57:45 Agenda+ QuickRef update (Eric) 14:57:49 Zakim, agenda? 14:57:49 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 14:57:50 1. QuickRef update (Eric) [from AWK] 14:58:07 Agenda+ Charter Update (Chairs/Michael) 14:58:24 Agenda+ Mobile Accessibility TF Update (Kathy) 14:58:28 laura has joined #wai-wcag 14:58:36 Agenda+ WCAG WG Priorities survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20150922Misc/ 14:59:03 Agenda+ Techniques items survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20150922Survey/ 14:59:37 David has joined #wai-wcag 15:00:25 Present+ AWK 15:01:26 Regrets+ Moe, Louis_Cheng, Mike_Elledge, Srini, Bruce_Bailey 15:02:46 Wayne has joined #wai-wcag 15:03:04 present+ wayne 15:03:59 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0224.html 15:04:26 agenda? 15:04:41 agenda+ Scribe: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List 15:05:00 Zakim, agenda order is 6 15:05:00 ok, yatil 15:05:04 agenda? 15:05:38 present+ EricE 15:05:44 marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag 15:06:08 present+ Laura 15:06:36 Kathy has joined #WAI-WCAG 15:06:42 present+ Kathy 15:06:46 present+ marcjohlic 15:06:59 +MichaelC 15:07:34 Zakim, who is on the phone 15:07:34 I don't understand 'who is on the phone', yatil 15:07:47 +David_MacDonald 15:07:47 present+ 15:08:23 s/present+/present+ Wayne 15:09:27 Scribe: David 15:09:37 Zakim, close item 6 15:09:37 agendum 6, Scribe: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List, closed 15:09:38 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 15:09:38 1. QuickRef update (Eric) [from AWK] 15:09:45 Zakim, take up item 1 15:09:45 agendum 1. "QuickRef update (Eric)" taken up [from AWK] 15:09:50 Zakim, take up item 1 15:09:50 agendum 1. "QuickRef update (Eric)" taken up [from AWK] 15:09:52 http://w3c.github.io/wai-wcag-quickref/ 15:10:39 Eric: Fixing bugs behind the scenes, so not much visual change but back end is imporving 15:10:56 s/imporving/improving 15:10:57 https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-quickref/issues/27 15:11:49 Trying to to ensure the old how to meet functionality is not gone... see issue 27, feel free to contribute... 15:11:53 https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-quickref/issues/28 15:12:19 Tagging success criteria, james and katie have feedback 15:12:46 https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-quickref/issues/22 15:13:07 eric: issue reported by David, would like comments... issue 22 15:14:18 David wanted backspace to return to the table of contents when you go somewhere with the table of contents. I would like comments. 15:15:49 jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag 15:15:54 present+jon_avila 15:17:50 Eric wonders if its a windows thqt uses backspace. David says probably... 15:18:13 s/thqt/that/ 15:19:16 * FWIW backspace does not go back in Safari in general on Mac but that backspace does work in Chrome on Mac 15:19:45 * Agree with Eric -- Webkit browsers do have issues with focus not shifting correctly 15:19:46 Jon says "FWIW backspace does not go back in Safari in general on Mac but that backspace does work in Chrome on Mac" 15:20:02 Eric: Firefox does it right and the rest don't 15:20:34 Eric: Thanks for the comments 15:20:41 Zakim, take up next item 15:20:41 agendum 2. "Charter Update (Chairs/Michael)" taken up [from AWK] 15:20:53 +1 15:20:53 +1 15:20:54 +1 15:21:01 Jon says "FWIW backspace does not go back in Safari in general on Mac but that backspace does work in Chrome on Mac" 15:21:49 AWK: Charter has been accepted. Seems objections have been resolved... looks like we are chartered... 15:22:14 Pending final approval 15:22:30 s|https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-quickref/issues/27|-> https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-quickref/issues/27 Collecting what should be in the introductory text 15:22:45 AWK: Objections have been resolved... is a better way to say it, until it is accepted 15:23:31 s|https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-quickref/issues/28|-> https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-quickref/issues/28 Collecting feedback on the tags/taxonomy of the success criteria 15:23:46 If not we are out of charter as of Thrusday... this will mean that we will be chartered to produced normative extensions. 15:24:28 s|https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-quickref/issues/22|-> https://github.com/w3c/wai-wcag-quickref/issues/22 Feedback on jumping back to the TOC 15:24:34 Michale: Should be official soon 15:24:51 s/Michale/Michael 15:24:57 +1 Thanks for the hard work, Chairs and Michael! 15:25:07 Thanks Andrew and Josh (and others) for getting the charter through! 15:25:15 Zakim, take up next item 15:25:15 agendum 3. "Mobile Accessibility TF Update (Kathy)" taken up [from AWK] 15:25:21 Laura: Thanks to chairs and Michael for hard work! 15:25:54 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Touch_Accessibility_%28Guideline_2.5%29 15:27:05 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments 15:27:35 Kathy: Mobile teasing out techniques and success Criteria, guidelines 15:27:52 David: will contribute some thoughts 15:28:09 ... 2 weeks ago came up with idea about new guideline 15:28:24 ... make it easier for users to operate touch and pointer functionality 15:28:46 ... underneath that are more detailed items 15:28:51 http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/TouchProposal_Discussion.html 15:28:58 ... discussion page is being updated 15:29:14 ... lots of opinions 15:29:31 ... SC's need to be testable, usable, etc 15:29:43 ... interested in group's thoughts on a new guideline 15:30:43 ... an alternative way to proceed is to not alter the WCAG 2.0 SC 15:31:04 ... I (David) think that we can do both potentially 15:31:59 ... new techniques (M1-17) are mapped to current SC's now 15:32:52 Zakim, take up next item 15:32:52 agendum 4. "WCAG WG Priorities survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20150922Misc/" taken up [from AWK] 15:33:20 http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/TouchProposal_Discussion.html 15:34:18 Scribe: David 15:34:51 Kathy: Looking for holes, do we need new guidelines and success criteria 15:35:09 Kathy: Kim has been working on speech. 15:35:37 Kathy: It's not been easy... we are still in discussions, good feedback 15:36:25 Joshue: Keep up the good progress 15:41:30 jamesn has joined #wai-wcag 15:41:34 AWK: Looking at priorities #1 Developing aria and html, extension requirements, techniques from mobile task force 15:41:50 rrsagent, make minutes 15:41:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn 15:41:57 q+ 15:42:04 Joshue: That's about right 15:42:29 +1 15:42:35 q+ 15:42:45 q+ 15:43:14 q+ to ask what extension requirements means? 15:43:28 Perhaps a magic square quadrant would be better. 15:44:16 AWK: For me. 1) nail down extension requirements, 2) clarify the process for external technique submissions 3) Reviewing the techniques 15:45:03 4) ATAG and UAG not renewed, our charter discusses a charter for a new working group, what we need in future guidelines and publish a requirements document for that. 15:45:25 s/UAG/UAAG 15:46:05 After that updating techniques, adding additional techniques for aria and html 15:46:42 Other things not as important 15:47:09 Zakim, queue? 15:47:09 I see Kathy, David, marcjohlic, jamesn on the speaker queue 15:47:15 ack kath 15:48:17 Kathy: as far as task force, ext requirements and reviewing techniques go hand and hand, look at them together... both ranked high... mobile accessibility task force, look at thqt and discussion out of that 15:48:36 we have techniques that didn't fit into existing success criteria... 15:48:41 q- 15:48:58 ack david 15:49:10 David: Agree with Kathy 15:49:44 ... there are techs that don't fit into existing SC well so there is a need for extension requirements clarity 15:50:46 ... we may need to use "if" language for some success criteria 15:50:51 ... that may be hard 15:52:35 ack marc 15:52:45 q+ 15:53:42 Marc: Biggest important thing is for us to have techniques for or mobile etc... techniques are very useful. 15:54:14 AWK: Agree with Kathy and David. are the Extensions going to have SC and guidelines, what are the requirements for that. 15:55:02 requirements documents are not long, bitnmaking sure we provide clarity of the oaramitors you can work within 15:55:47 if we want to adopt alll requirements for WCAG 2 regarding testable, backward compatibility etc... what about conformance, to conconfomr WCAg + ext it means this 15:57:27 Kathy: Making sure parameter fit within WCAG, finding out new guideline vs, new success criteria, we are going to hit things that don't fit into the existing WCAG, and within extensions, what about crossover issues between cognitive, mobile low visipn etc 15:57:29 marcjohlic_ has joined #wai-wcag 15:57:42 want to ensure cosistent way across all taskforces... 15:58:28 Joshue: May want to merge extensions if there is a lot of overhang 15:59:13 Kathy: Speech, some things not just mobile, some things that are requirements for mobile but not oly mobile, how do we integrate them... 16:01:46 s/oly/only/ 16:02:08 David: Perhaps at the end we will combine aALL of the groups together into just ONE extensionto WCAg which combines low vision, mobile and cognitive 16:02:30 ack ja 16:02:30 jamesn, you wanted to ask what extension requirements means? 16:02:43 James: My question same as marc's 16:02:44 ack la 16:03:05 Laura: I rank extension requirments number one also 16:03:06 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2_Extension_Principles 16:03:29 s/aALL/ALL 16:03:42 We have done some work on principles in the Wiki, which we could update and continue work on. 16:03:43 q+ 16:03:48 s/WCAg/WCAG 16:04:21 AWK anyone want a change in these priorities 16:05:48 Marc: Maybe I should think .... with difficulties of timing, maybe making it easy to contribute would speed things up, rate that higher 16:06:58 AWK: Reality, getting a ton of techniques for ARIA not much time... other W3C groups. 16:07:42 AWK: actual bandwidth doesn't match out real bandwidth... let's grease skids for outside contributeors 16:08:26 s/contributeors/contributors 16:08:51 +q 16:09:00 ack marc 16:10:35 ack david 16:11:58 Joshue: we have to be careful not to make WCAG more complicated. 16:12:46 David: The industry has changed. When we were writing WCAg we weren't as busy because WCAg was not required in law and policy... but now our career's are swamped... 16:14:35 AWK: Priority : "Determine features needed in future WAI accessibility guidelines and publish requirements" 16:15:29 We could propose to close WCAG after ATAG, and UAAG close, and do something totally new 16:16:01 Theoretically, we could do WCAG 2.1 or WCAG 3 WAI2020 etc... 16:16:34 Michael: we are working on how we need authoring guidelines to evolve... 16:17:25 We don't have sope to work on those topics, don't know the way forward, use this time now to explore those issues... 16:18:11 We will seek input from ATAG and UAAG stakeholderw to input, do we want to incorporate some of their work into ours 16:19:16 The 508 refresh includes some criteria from ATAG. DOJ is attempting to requirement in settlements. 16:19:19 AWK: Will decide what or if we have their work is incorporated... 16:20:30 AWK the others Updating existing techniques 16:20:32 Items in the charter include: Developing additional techniques for HTML5 and ARIA 16:20:33 Updating the Understanding document for greater clarity 16:20:35 Clarify process for external submission of technique edits and new techniques 16:20:36 Reviewing techniques and other information from Mobile, Cognitive, and Low-Vision TFs 16:20:38 Extension requirements 16:20:39 Determine features needed in future WAI accessibility guidelines and publish requirements 16:20:41 Respond to public comments on WCAG 2.0 and supporting documents 16:20:42 Participate in work on documentation of accessibility support, including other WAI work on an accessibility support database to store crowd-sourced accessibility support information 16:20:44 Collaborate with other groups to expand the set of test samples for WCAG 2.0 techniques 16:20:45 Other 16:21:10 AWK: We are chartered to respond to comments... 16:23:29 marcjohlic_ has joined #wai-wcag 16:24:22 Zakim, next item 16:24:22 agendum 5. "Techniques items survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20150922Survey/" taken up [from AWK] 16:25:57 marcjohlic__ has joined #wai-wcag 16:27:02 https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/80 16:28:21 http://davidmacd.com/blog/css-background-images.html 16:28:57 James: Concerned that it will not all CSS before, after 16:30:01 John: Concerned that we are using CSS to add non decorative images 16:30:57 Could it affect users who turn off CSS 16:31:50 can James, people like to use image sorites and we try to give them a way to do it... 16:32:16 John: I want to make sure that when we zoom in things still work 16:32:52 AWK: Will leave survey open 16:34:10 James: awe should have a proposed reqonse to commenter and this is what gives us context 16:34:17 AWK: I'll add that 16:34:35 AWK if people can look at these two items that would be good. 16:35:13 Bye. Thanks. 16:35:14 AWK olease work on issues 16:35:39 laura has left #wai-wcag 16:35:40 s/olease/please 16:35:49 trackbot, end meeting 16:35:49 Zakim, list attendees 16:35:49 As of this point the attendees have been AWK, wayne, EricE, Laura, Kathy, marcjohlic, MichaelC, David_MacDonald, jon_avila 16:35:57 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:35:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/22-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot 16:35:58 RRSAgent, bye 16:35:58 I see no action items