18:50:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:50:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/22-aapi-irc
18:50:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
18:50:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
18:50:10 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
18:50:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
18:50:11 <trackbot> Date: 22 September 2015
18:50:21 <clown> agenda: this
18:50:28 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1706/1717: (Cynthia, Joseph) Compose a statement regarding the "deprecation" of UIA express mappings in the core-aam, referencing the aria 1.0 mapping spec.
18:50:34 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1309: (Cynthia) UIA and mappings for aria-colindex and aria-rowindex.
18:50:42 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1531: (Alex, David) Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text".
18:50:48 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1528: (Alex, David) IA2 mapping for aria-current.
18:50:54 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1585: (Cynthia) Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of UIA.
18:51:01 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1585: (Cynthia) Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of UIA.
18:51:10 <clown> agenda?
18:52:08 <clown> agenda?
18:52:15 <clown> agenda: this
18:52:20 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1706/1717: (Cynthia, Joseph) Compose a statement regarding the "deprecation" of UIA express mappings in the core-aam, referencing the aria 1.0 mapping spec.
18:52:32 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1309: (Cynthia) UIA and mappings for aria-colindex and aria-rowindex.
18:52:39 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1531: (Alex, David) Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text".
18:52:47 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1528: (Alex, David) IA2 mapping for aria-current.
18:52:54 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1585: (Cynthia) Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of UIA.
18:53:01 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1668: (Rich, Alex) Add a IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK to IA2. This will tell ATs to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks.
18:53:06 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1686: (Joseph) Drive mapping of aria-errormessage to AAPIs.
18:53:14 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1692/1693: (Joanie, Alex) Propose ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-errormessage.
18:53:20 <clown> agenda+ Action/issue triage (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23)
18:53:27 <clown> agenda+ be done.
18:53:30 <clown> agenda?
18:59:55 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
19:01:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aapi
19:03:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> Present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
19:04:16 <joanie> regrets+ Cynthia_Shelly
19:04:26 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:04:50 <joanie> Topic: CR
19:04:54 <joanie> JS: When is CR?
19:05:01 <joanie> RS: I think around January.
19:05:23 <joanie> JS: It would be useful in determining the cut-off point for the open actions.
19:05:42 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:06:10 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
19:06:48 <joanie> JS: If something is deprecated, do implementors need to implement it?
19:06:59 <joanie> RS: I'm not sure; I'll have to ask Michael.
19:07:29 <joanie> JS: There's also some discussion related to aria-errormessage and aria-current.
19:09:38 <joanie> RS: We do need to progress towards feature freeze.
19:09:54 <joanie> RS: I've asked Michael for the exit criteria.
19:10:03 <joanie> JS: I'm concerned about getting all the mappings done.
19:10:33 <joanie> RS: When Matt is finished with what he's working on, that should close quite a few issues and actions.
19:11:03 <joanie> RS: We still need to sort out describedat, go with details and an iframe, or something.
19:11:12 <joanie> JS: I like details.
19:11:33 <clown> s/I like details/I like details-summary/
19:11:51 <joanie> RS: Michael is also busy dealing with charters.
19:11:57 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:11:57 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ACTION-1706/1717: (Cynthia, Joseph) Compose a statement regarding the "deprecation" of UIA express mappings in the core-aam, referencing the aria 1.0 mapping spec."
19:12:00 <Zakim> ... taken up [from clown]
19:12:11 <clown> action-1706?
19:12:11 <trackbot> action-1706 -- Cynthia Shelly to Compose a statement regarding the "deprecation" of uia express mappings in the core-aam, referencing the aria 1.0 mapping spec. -- due 2015-09-01 -- OPEN
19:12:11 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1706
19:12:42 <joanie> JS: There's a couple of Cynthia's issues at the top.
19:12:52 <joanie> JS: I didn't realize she would not be able to attend.
19:13:14 <joanie> JS: With respect to the first item, I had an action to remove the UIA Express column.
19:13:32 <joanie> JS: But when I went to do it, I noticed I was supposed to get a statement from Cynthia.
19:13:40 <joanie> action-1706
19:13:40 <trackbot> action-1706 -- Cynthia Shelly to Compose a statement regarding the "deprecation" of uia express mappings in the core-aam, referencing the aria 1.0 mapping spec. -- due 2015-09-01 -- OPEN
19:13:40 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1706
19:13:57 <joanie> JS: And my action is 1717.
19:14:12 <joanie> RS: Did you get a chance to look at the SVG mapping?
19:14:15 <joanie> JS: Not yet.
19:14:27 <joanie> JS: I'll try to get to it this week.
19:14:52 <joanie> JS: Making a branch in which to make comments in the document would be an easy way for you (Rich) to see the comments.
19:14:56 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:14:56 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1309: (Cynthia) UIA and mappings for aria-colindex and aria-rowindex." taken up [from clown]
19:15:07 <joanie> JS: This has been around a long time.
19:15:09 <clown> action-1309
19:15:09 <trackbot> action-1309 -- Cynthia Shelly to Determine the best place to map aria-colindex and aria-rowindex for msaa+uiexpress and uia. -- due 2015-08-01 -- OPEN
19:15:09 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1309
19:15:24 <joanie> JS: She is supposed to provide UIA mappings for rowindex and colindex.
19:16:05 <joanie> RS: So she only needs to do it for UIA?
19:16:08 <joanie> JS: Correct.
19:16:24 <joanie> RS: Why are you waiting on a statement from Cynthia on UIA?
19:16:40 <joanie> JS: I think I have all other platforms but UIA.
19:17:20 <joanie> RS: There is absolutely no way that any new ARIA 1.1 features will be added to Internet Explorer.
19:17:36 <joanie> RS: So I would just delete the entire UIA Express column.
19:18:00 <joanie> JS: Right. But Cynthia is supposed to give me a statement that UIA Express is deprecated.
19:18:10 <joanie> RS: I would just delete the column.
19:18:28 <joanie> JS: There's also scattered throughout the document references to UIA Express. Should those also be removed?
19:18:31 <joanie> RS: Yes.
19:19:20 <joanie> JS: Ok, I will then try to get this done.
19:19:51 <joanie> JS: I will edit action-1309 to remove mention of UIA Express.
19:20:26 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:20:26 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-1531: (Alex, David) Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text"." taken up [from clown]
19:20:35 <clown> action-1531?
19:20:35 <trackbot> action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
19:20:35 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1531
19:20:45 <joanie> JS: We need IA2 mappings of role="text".
19:21:13 <joanie> JS: He has sent me some stuff, but is still trying to work out the fact that the ATK mappings are different.
19:21:19 <joanie> JS: Alex doesn't really like that.
19:23:37 <joanie> JD: He's already dealt with this for things like span element with onclick or some other must-expose property.
19:24:34 <joanie> JD: So I don't understand why the mapping of role="text" is different or problematic.
19:25:56 <joanie> JS: What do these textframes buy you?
19:28:19 <clown> <div>A DIV with a <p>paragraph with a <span>SPAN</span></p></div>
19:30:11 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#text
19:32:52 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-text
19:33:58 <joanie> JS: Does it make sense for both a span with an onclick handler and the non-interactive ARIA role text to each map to the textframe role in IA2?
19:34:22 <joanie> JD: Why not? *IF* it makes sense to the NVDA guys.
19:35:14 <clown> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible_text.html
19:35:33 <joanie> https://developer.gnome.org/atk/2.18/AtkObject.html#AtkRole
19:35:53 <joanie> A generic non-container object whose purpose is to display a brief amount of information to the user and whose role is known by the implementor but lacks semantic value for the user. Examples in which ATK_ROLE_STATIC is appropriate include the message displayed in a message box and an image used as an alternative means to display text. ATK_ROLE_STATIC should not be applied to widgets which are traditionally interactive, objects which display a significant [CUT]
19:38:03 <clown> <p>I <span role="text img" aria-label="love">♥︎</span> New York.</p>
19:39:31 <clown> <p><span role="text img" aria-label="3 of 5 stars">★★★☆☆︎</span></p>
19:41:03 <clown> <p>I <img src="icon.gif" alt="love" role="text"> New York.︎</p>
19:41:04 <joanie> <img src="stars" role="text" />
19:45:31 <clown> From IA2 documentation:  IA2_ROLE_TEXT_FRAME Collection of objects that constitute a logical text entity.
19:48:19 <clown> note:  there is also MSAA ROLE_SYSTEM_TEXT
19:48:43 <clown> accessible text inteface:  http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible_text.html
19:58:09 <joanie> (Group discusses, looks on mailing lists, sends stakeholders emails, and pings others via IRC)
19:58:29 <clown> scribenick:  clown
19:59:13 <clown> Group:  Two things:  Regarding IA2_TEXT_FRAME, does it incur an IAccessilbe2 text interface, necessarily?
19:59:38 <clown> Group: Having a text interface for an img (with role text) doesn't work, since the cursor navigation will not work.
19:59:44 <clown> scribenick:  joanie
20:02:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://127.0.0.1/~richardschwerdtfeger/aria/dpub-aam/dpub-aam.html
20:05:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/dpub.html
20:07:25 <joanie> JD: Having spoken with Alex via IRC, the conclusion is this: We
20:07:57 <joanie> JD: will map role="text" to ATK_ROLE_STATIC and the equivalent in IA2.
20:08:12 <joanie> JD: Alex says the equivalent is TEXTFRAME, but that we should check with Jamie.
20:08:30 <joanie> JD: Since Rich emailed Jamie, the IA2 mapping is blocked on that.
20:08:59 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/dpub.html#role_definitions
20:16:35 <joanie> https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Accessibility/Reference/AccessibilityCarbonRef/#//apple_ref/doc/constant_group/Subroles
20:16:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
20:17:53 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:17:53 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
20:17:53 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:18:15 <joanie> scribeOptions: -final
20:18:21 <joanie> RRSAgenta, stop
20:18:25 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:18:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/22-aapi-minutes.html joanie
20:19:28 <joanie> RRSAgent, start
20:19:36 <joanie> present- Rich
20:19:42 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:19:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/22-aapi-minutes.html joanie
20:20:09 <joanie> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:20:16 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:20:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/22-aapi-minutes.html joanie
20:21:27 <joanie> RRSAgenta, stop
20:21:41 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop
20:22:23 <joanie> s/RRSAgenta, stop//
20:22:28 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:22:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/22-aapi-minutes.html joanie
20:23:28 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop