01:13:23 RRSAgent has joined #datavis 01:13:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/20-datavis-irc 01:13:38 Zakim has joined #datavis 01:13:47 Meeting: DataVis Community Group 01:13:51 Chair: Xiaoru Yuan 01:14:06 scribe: Angel 01:19:27 Present: Chunming, Angel, Xiaoru Yuan, Xin Huang(Qihoo360), Renhua Liang(Zhejiang University), Dahua guo(CAS), Jie Liang(Pekeing Uni), Limei Che(Baidu), Yueli Jun (Haiyuan Data), Yanbo Chen(Peking Uni), Yi Chen(Beijing Gongshang Uni), Tiemeng Li( Beijing Post Uni), Jinghua Zhao(CESI), @@@(zhongqizhiyuan, publishing house), Tang (GAPP) 01:22:17 Present+ Deqing Li(Baidu), Hanchen Song(Guofangkeda), Yadong Wu(Xinankeda), Yuan Ren(Caixin Data), Shenyuan Wei(Caixin Data), Ming Lu(Peking Uni), Shan Chen( Huawei), 01:23:21 Present+ Xiang Li (Wuhan Uni), Kai Rao (China Mobile), Lijing Li( Peking Uni) 01:23:49 zakim, agenda+ Welcome from the Host and Round Table Introduction 01:23:49 agendum 1 added 01:24:13 zakim, agenda+W3C Standards Making Process and its DataVis CG 01:24:13 agendum 2 added 01:24:25 zakim, agenda+ thoughts on datavis standards work 01:24:25 agendum 3 added 01:24:50 agenda+Frond End Development Requirements for Data Visualization by Qihoo360 01:24:52 agenda+ Frond End Development Requirements for Data Visualization by Baidy 01:25:12 agenda+ introduction of national standards work on big data by CESI 01:25:21 agenda+ open discussion 01:25:25 agenda+ wrap up 01:25:33 zakim, take up agenda 1 01:25:33 agendum 1. "Welcome from the Host and Round Table Introduction" taken up [from Angel] 01:26:11 Xiaoru Yuan: Welcome to Peking Univeristy! We are glad to have you all here today. 01:26:28 ...now we start the round table introduction 01:26:36 [round table introduction] 01:26:40 zakim, close this item 01:26:40 agendum 1 closed 01:26:41 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 01:26:41 2. W3C Standards Making Process and its DataVis CG [from Angel] 01:26:44 zakim, take up next 01:26:44 agendum 2. "W3C Standards Making Process and its DataVis CG" taken up [from Angel] 01:27:06 Chunming: Hi all, as introduced, I am Chunming Hu from W3C/Beihang 01:27:25 ...today I will introduce the way W3C standards are made and its DataVis work 01:27:34 ...my slides at @@@@ 01:31:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 01:31:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/20-datavis-minutes.html Angel 01:31:09 rrsagent, make log publich 01:31:19 rrsagent, make log public 02:01:49 Angel_ has joined #datavis 02:05:10 zakim, close this item 02:05:10 agendum 2 closed 02:05:11 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 02:05:11 3. thoughts on datavis standards work [from Angel] 02:05:13 zakim, take up next 02:05:13 agendum 3. "thoughts on datavis standards work" taken up [from Angel] 02:05:55 Xiaoru: thanks Chunming for the detailed intro! 02:06:05 ...now I would like to share why we should do the datavis work 02:06:14 ...I have only one-page slide 02:06:33 ...I started the datavis research work 15 years ago 02:06:57 ...datavis as a research subject has been developed for about 26 years 02:07:20 ...1988 there was a small meetup in the US discussing the datavis work 02:07:42 ...which can be considered as the starting as datavis research 02:08:14 ...the discusison started from S&T work 02:09:15 ...nowadays, datavis has been introduced into various industries 02:09:36 ...and more and more tech supports from HTML, XML,etc 02:10:20 ...and datavis has been more and more related to the web as it is more and more connected to the public rather than reseach people 02:10:38 ...and we hear strong requirements from the industry for datavis standards 02:11:06 ...I think today is a proper and mature time to start the datavis standard work, from both the academic world and the industry 02:11:42 ...also, I am glad that the research and industry people in China have been more involved in the datavis research community 02:12:10 ...the paper published from Chinese has been taking a larger and larger potion in IEEE index publishings 02:12:51 ...and companies like Qihoo360, Tencent, Baidu and Alibaba have been involved in this field as industry support 02:13:04 ...I started the conversation with Chunming about datavis last year 02:13:20 ...it's been 9 months and now I think it is time for us to start the work 02:13:56 ...I would like to see more involvements from Chinese research community and indiustry in datavis standards 02:14:43 ...I will also push to set up a datavis committe under China Computer Federation 02:15:00 ...as for the standards work for datavis, it does not have to be related to the web 02:15:32 ...requirements for S&T data can be taken into consideration as well 02:15:52 ...as for the standard work, a glossary is a good start 02:16:11 ...there have been some quite good glossary in English, but not many in Chinese 02:16:30 ...a unified glossary is very important for us to start the work 02:16:54 ...for the same data, there can be varisou ways to visualize it 02:17:23 ...if we want to take better use of the current practice and share the common practice, we will need more communication on this 02:18:01 ...so for today, all the people are from China, there will be more participants from other countries to join the datavis standard work 02:18:26 ...so today, I hope we could get ready to start the work and be prepared for a long term work 02:18:33 ...thank you all for participation! 02:18:53 ...your contribution to datavis standard work is really appriciated 02:19:12 zakim, close this ite, 02:19:12 I don't understand 'close this ite,', Angel_ 02:19:15 zakim, close this item 02:19:15 agendum 3 closed 02:19:16 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 02:19:16 4. Frond End Development Requirements for Data Visualization by Qihoo360 [from Angel] 02:19:19 zakim, take up next 02:19:19 agendum 4. "Frond End Development Requirements for Data Visualization by Qihoo360" taken up [from Angel] 02:20:35 Xin Huang from qihoo360: Hi all, I from qihoo360 02:20:58 ...today, I would like to share the problems or so called requirements from our practices 02:24:03 ...first, to show some of the demos of the datavis of qihoo360 02:24:28 ...some solution to merge datavis 02:24:38 ...now I get to talk about the problems 02:24:56 ... first, make it easier to make SVG responsive 02:25:21 ...to make the img more responsive 02:25:52 ...lots lots of code 02:26:02 ...for a simple img 02:26:34 ...for a more complicated graph, it can be very dymatic, very complicated 02:27:14 ...HTML for better responsive via Grid, Felx, Media Query 02:27:33 ...config SVG via viewbox 02:27:52 ... more semantics for doc structure 02:29:23 ...standard API makes the data visulized natrually 02:30:13 ...but there are many practices, which need to be standarized 02:30:44 ... in our daily work, web has been becoming more and more important 02:31:03 ... a web app can be made by many conponents 02:31:27 ...each component is independent 02:31:41 ...wrt HTML, CSS and JS 02:31:54 ...the components can talk to each other 02:32:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 02:32:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/20-datavis-minutes.html Angel_ 02:35:00 ...the client end might have limited capabilities, various capabilitesi might cause different experience 02:35:28 ...we hope to put some caputing and rendering fucntions to the cloud so as to unify the user experience 02:35:45 zakim, close this item 02:35:45 agendum 4 closed 02:35:46 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 02:35:46 5. Frond End Development Requirements for Data Visualization by Baidy [from Angel] 02:35:50 zakim, take up next 02:35:50 agendum 5. "Frond End Development Requirements for Data Visualization by Baidy" taken up [from Angel] 02:36:40 Deqing Li from Baidu: my topic is Echarts Next 02:36:56 ... I would like to introduce our practice on datavis 02:37:17 ...Echarts is popular recently, easy to take up 02:37:31 ... we receive many feedback on Echarts everyday from our users 02:37:44 ...our users have various requirements for datavis via Echarts 02:37:48 Dodd_ has joined #datavis 02:38:03 ...our use cases are more about 1D and 2D, not much for 3D 02:38:41 ...problems: hard to vis Pie charts 02:39:20 ...3rd party extension solution templete model for data 02:39:37 ...for 1D, 2D or even higher D 02:39:49 ...the data needs to be categrized, then flitered 02:40:04 ...filter might not be the exact term 02:40:54 ... Coordinates and layout are handled via independent models 02:41:20 ling9366 has joined #datavis 02:41:58 ...after filtering, Attribute mapping 02:42:25 ...abstract the coordinates 02:42:50 ... technologies like Canvas, SVG and WebGl can be used for datavis as well 02:42:57 zakim, close this item 02:42:57 agendum 5 closed 02:42:58 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 02:42:58 6. introduction of national standards work on big data by CESI [from Angel] 02:43:01 zakim, take up next 02:43:01 agendum 6. "introduction of national standards work on big data by CESI" taken up [from Angel] 02:43:48 Xiaoru: The State Council has been announced the strategy for big data 02:44:06 ...which is a very important topic for next step of national standard system 02:44:27 ...so next we will hear from the big data standard work from Mr. Jinghua Zhao from CESI 02:44:42 s/been announced/announced 02:44:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 02:44:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/20-datavis-minutes.html Angel_ 02:46:01 gdh has joined #datavis 02:48:40 Jinghua Zhao: glad to be here to share the big data standard work of CESI 02:49:09 ... as for the related standard orgs, I would like to introduce the work of ISU/IEC JTC1 WG9 02:49:55 ...6 items on big data, ISO/IEC 20564, 20567-1, etc 02:50:14 ... July 7, the WG9 will have a meeting in Beijing, welcome to join 02:50:33 ... SC32 on data management and exchange is related too 02:50:57 ... it is related to metadata, model and ontoloty 02:51:38 ... ITU and NIST NBD-PWG has big data related standard work too 02:51:49 NIST has 5 WGs and 7 outputs 02:52:01 s/NIST has 5 WGs and 7 outputs/...NIST has 5 WGs and 7 outputs 02:52:33 ...above is the big data standards work in the international standards 02:52:59 .... as for the national standards, it is carried out in BDWG 02:53:10 ...there are 7 sub-groups under BDWG 02:53:29 .... a whitepaper V2.0 will be published soon 02:53:32 ...comments are welcome 02:53:53 ...some research work on NIST is included in this whitepaper 02:54:05 ...it is a joint work with ISO/IEC 02:54:33 [JInghua show the structure of DBWG] 02:54:48 JInghua: there are 10 standards project launched 02:55:17 ...some about glossray, performance evaluation, semantics, etc 02:55:50 ...datavis is a very important part in our technical reference model 02:56:09 ...requirements on datavis has been discussed within the BDWG 02:56:22 ...though not much progress has been made 02:56:56 ... datavis standard work is included in the big data platform framework 2.0 as well 02:57:06 ...we need to communicate with them wrt the standards work 02:57:29 ...we would like to work with you all on the requirements, standards making and testing 02:57:41 ...that is all, thank you! 02:57:51 zakim, close this item 02:57:51 agendum 6 closed 02:57:52 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 02:57:52 7. open discussion [from Angel] 03:04:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 03:04:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/20-datavis-minutes.html Angel_ 03:13:02 s/Baidy/Baidu 03:13:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 03:13:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/20-datavis-minutes.html Angel 03:13:34 s/Angel_/Angel 03:22:28 Xiaoru: we have proposed some topics for this session, e.g. requirements, use case, scenario, Roadmap for data visualization standards work, Possible work scale and work plan , etc 03:23:26 sun has joined #datavis 03:23:58 Yuna Ren from Caixin: the datavis work of my company differs from the work of Baidu and Qihoo 03:24:09 ... they are more tool oriented 03:24:18 ...we are more focusing on news and data 03:24:48 ... to promote datavis in the more effective way is our job 03:26:04 ... the ediors and Reporters without tech backgroup will have problems using datavis 03:26:21 ...we prefer to use the standards to make it easier for them 03:26:54 ... one case we did was about Yongkang Zhou, to comb the relationship between the parties within his group 03:27:15 ...we used Echarts and some other tools, but they could not meet the needs 03:27:52 ...for media industry, we are interested to see what areas in datavis should be standardized 03:28:24 ...what we want is more down to the bottom 03:28:43 ...e.g. Algorithm 03:29:09 ...and data structure, the tree structure 03:29:20 ...better way to store the data in SVG? 03:32:04 Yadong Wu from Southwestern University: 2 aspects on datavis, one is from industry, the other one is from government 03:32:38 ... huge amount of gov info data needs to be visualized 03:32:58 ...e.g. the transportation, tourisim 03:33:53 ... and the needs for publich info data should be taken into consideration too 03:34:06 Limei Che from baidu: I had 3 years of study on datavis 03:34:21 ... got some idea on datavis model and algorithm 03:35:16 ... some of our products matched what Mr. Wu just said, e.g. a datavis product for a tourist spot to show the status of tourists 03:35:40 ...for me as a technicial, it is easy, but for public use, it is still a bit different 03:36:30 ... my suggestion is that during the standard work, there should be more education materials for the promotion of datavis knowledge 03:36:59 Danhuai_Guo has joined #datavis 03:37:31 ...another one is the standards for UE, better cooperation and communcation between datavis designed and UE designer 03:37:49 ... this is the problems I met in my daily work 03:38:34 Qian Huang from Chaotu software: I was involved in some national standard 03:38:49 ...I would like to share my thoughts on why we should make standards on datavis 03:38:58 ...not everything fits to be standardized 03:39:29 ...a good standard should always evolve 03:40:04 ... as for the golossary, it makes sense to even standardize even the title of the positions 03:40:43 ...datavis is more of an art term 03:41:12 ... it is crossed with many fields 03:41:20 ...e.g. art, S&T 03:41:59 ... so the targets/goals of datavis should be very clear and feasible 03:42:12 ...a proper working scale is very important 03:42:48 ... the work on Dynamic visualization is almost empty 03:42:56 ...which needs our attendtion 03:43:03 s/attendtion/attention 03:43:13 s/attendtion/attention 03:43:34 ...so I think we should make it clear which part of datavis should be standardized 03:43:53 ...a more systematic roadmap would be appriciated 03:44:41 @@ from CAS: my team works on a national project on data integration 03:45:09 ...2 problems faced, one is how to intergrate the data, other is to visualized them 03:45:33 ...if there are standards for them, it will make our work much easier 03:46:22 ...today we discuss how to make datavis standards on web, we might have more requirements for datavis in other field 03:47:02 Xiaoru: while we are working on the datavis standards on the web, it is likely that we find other directions we need to work on 03:47:12 s/field/fields 03:47:37 ... I have to say this is not an easy way to go 03:48:25 @@: I dont have much experiece with standards making, and I get it that we are talking about making international standards here 03:48:42 ...we will need some industrial standards as well 03:48:56 ...which might need to be considered as well 03:50:07 ... and we need to avoid the overlap work with the DBWG work under CESI 03:51:04 Yi Chen from Beijing gongshang uni: some thoughts for the meeting today 03:51:38 ... 1st, we need to let the industry know the importance of the datavis standards, why we are doing it 03:52:09 ...people did not think it datavis could solve problems before big data got hot 03:52:38 ...2nd, some commen ways like the pie charts are well known and more new ways are coming 03:52:49 ...which is not well known to the public yet 03:53:09 ...some best practices to promote these new solutions would be needed 03:53:49 ...3rd, my team on the datavis of food security, which is more certain industry focused 03:54:26 ... I need to see how my work match this datavis standards 03:57:03 Tang from GAPP: when we are making standards, besides national and industrial standards, consortium standards and company standards are important too 03:57:30 ...when a company is working on its own standatrds, there are some really good requirements and practices we can take good use of 03:58:10 ...for datavis standards, the requirements from companies matter as well as their proposed solutions 03:58:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 03:58:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/20-datavis-minutes.html Angel 03:59:01 ... the standards making should be bidirectional 03:59:26 ...one task I bring to this meeting is that GAPP is working on the 13th 5-year plan 03:59:45 ...visualization is part of the job 04:00:17 ...one block for us is that what is the big data for Press and publishing industry 04:00:49 ... we need to make a clear description of this in the 13th 5-year plan 04:01:20 Chunming: to sum up, I heard it that we got the consensus it is a good time to make the standards for datavis 04:01:30 ...one requirements we learnt is @@@ 04:01:43 ...other requirement is from 3rd party, about @@ 04:01:58 ...as for the working scale, it can inlcude the glossary 04:02:06 ...the presentation of data 04:02:35 ...as for the national standards work, the BDWG and 13th 5-year plan of GAPP might fit 04:03:21 ... here is the flow I summarized from today's presentations 04:03:53 ... which can work as an option map for our standards work 04:04:51 ... as for different layers, some core standards for metadata and data model are needed 04:05:09 ... for upper layer, it should be presentation and style 04:05:35 ...and then it is domain specific vocabulary/extensions 04:05:50 Xiaoru: good time control 04:06:00 ...we are getting close to the end of the meeting 04:06:17 ... for the future work, we will choose carely what scale we should take 04:07:11 ... it would be exciting to make some basic standards to support the datavis work 04:07:25 ...thank you all today for coming to this event 04:07:40 ...more conversations will be carried in mailing list exchange 04:07:57 ... we encourage you to join the CG 04:08:11 ...looking forward to working with you all! 04:08:14 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:08:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/20-datavis-minutes.html Angel 06:12:41 chang has joined #datavis 06:34:04 w3c has joined #datavis 06:35:03 w3c has left #datavis 07:01:36 tiemeng has joined #datavis 07:01:48 tiemeng has left #datavis