13:54:46 RRSAgent has joined #tt 13:54:46 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-irc 13:54:48 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:54:48 Zakim has joined #tt 13:54:50 Zakim, this will be TTML 13:54:50 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 13:54:51 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 13:54:51 Date: 17 September 2015 13:55:27 Present: Nigel 13:59:05 Frans has joined #tt 14:00:43 pal has joined #tt 14:02:01 it looks like I will not have audio today 14:02:12 mike has joined #tt 14:03:46 Present+ Frans 14:04:44 indeed 14:04:48 Present+ Thierry, Mike 14:05:31 Present+ pal 14:05:37 scribe: Nigel 14:05:41 chair: Nigel 14:05:42 I can provide brief update re: items 3 and 4 14:05:58 Topic: This Meeting 14:06:51 nigel: Thanks Pierre - I make that the IMSC Test Suite and Implementation Report, and TTML WebVTT mapping. 14:07:12 yes 14:08:38 nigel: Introduces meeting and topics based on agenda. Any other business? 14:09:32 Mike: I'm primarily interested in the mapping document, but as you say the authors aren't present right now. 14:09:52 nigel: I think we should get first reactions, and then take that forward, regardless of whether the authors are here or not. 14:10:06 Topic: Action Items 14:10:45 nigel: The only one that we might be able to look at right now is Pierre's. Pierre, is there any update on Action-420, re Issue-406? 14:11:11 No update. I have yet to contact Glenn. 14:11:44 Topic: TPAC 2015 14:12:13 nigel: Firstly, any difficulties in registering, or any queries? 14:12:16 group: None. 14:12:58 nigel: I want to highlight that we will cover the charter renewal at TPAC. The current charter: 14:13:02 http://www.w3.org/2014/03/timed-text-charter.html 14:13:23 nigel: runs out on March 30 2016, so we will probably be wanting to renew it. 14:14:08 nigel: We need to consider our scope. Note also that the Timed Media Working Group is being 14:14:19 ... chartered right now. Thierry, what's the current status of that? 14:14:40 tmichel: I'm told that WebVTT work was removed from the potential scope of TMWG following 14:14:53 ... a conversation between nigel and plh. That's about all I know about the interaction between 14:15:20 ... the two groups. TMWG will work more on APIs than we do. I don't have a link to the 14:15:25 ... updated charter yet. 14:15:55 nigel: Okay, thanks. I'm guessing that we want something on TTML2 and IMSC 2 and possibly 14:16:07 ... something on live subtitles, as well as WebVTT. 14:16:26 tmichel: I had a discussion with plh on the TTWG working on IMSC 2. It is not clearly marked 14:16:43 ... as a deliverable right now but because there's no versioning in the charter then plh confirmed 14:17:05 ... to me that we can work on IMSC 2 under the current charter. I just wanted to mention that 14:17:13 ... because I raised a query on it a few weeks ago. 14:17:19 nigel: Thanks for that. 14:17:37 nigel: Anything else for TPAC agenda to mention? 14:17:50 tmichel: Just some admin - for people planning to come to TPAC you should register and book 14:18:07 ... your hotels as soon as possible because I'm told that the pre-booked hotel rooms are filling 14:18:21 ... up. There are other hotels of course. I'm aware of people having issues paying with credit 14:18:33 ... cards for this event. If you have those issues contact the meeting planner or me and I'll help 14:18:37 ... you to make your reservation. 14:18:42 nigel: Thanks Thierry. 14:18:55 Topic: IMSC Implementation Report. 14:19:16 tmichel: Just to say that the implementation report WBS questionnaire that I prepared and that 14:19:24 I have received positive feedback from implementers at IBC 14:19:33 tmichel: we sent to the implementors has had no responses yet. 14:19:50 ... When we talked about this last, in June/July we said we'd remind potential implementors 14:20:02 ... in September. I know that Pierre reported he has good feedback from implementors, so 14:20:21 ... should we send them something? Should we do it differently? If Pierre could report a bit more 14:20:30 ... on the status of these implementors and the coverage for example? 14:21:06 Thanks Nigel 14:21:38 I received positive feedback at IBC, which I hope to turn into actual responses to the questionaire 14:22:00 these implementers are making their way back from IBC and I plan to ping them on Monday 14:22:17 ....so hopefully more concrete recommendation by next meeting 14:22:23 nigel: Shall we leave it with you Pierre until you've had a response? 14:22:52 tmichel: I wanted to add two things. Nigel, you mentioned that you've seen a lot of TTML 14:23:02 ... implementations at IBC. I think it would be reasonable and a good idea to list those 14:23:14 ... implementations somewhere on our page. We could reuse that for example when we will 14:23:25 ... go to CR for TTML2, to help us to have a list of implementors that we're aware of. 14:23:38 ... Secondly, about IMSC, I know that Glenn is working on an implementation, and maybe we 14:23:51 ... could discuss that with him to find out when he plans to release something and what it would 14:23:55 ... cover regarding our test suite. 14:26:01 Action: nigel Check with TTML player manufacturers if they're happy to be listed on our site. 14:26:01 Created ACTION-421 - Check with ttml player manufacturers if they're happy to be listed on our site. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-09-24]. 14:26:23 pal: I'll check back with Glenn 14:27:23 nigel: So the conclusion is we won't decide until next week when we'll know more from Pierre. 14:27:35 ... Since we don't know if there are any concerns from implementors about responding we can't 14:27:42 ... try to address any such concerns yet. 14:27:59 not from me 14:28:16 Topic: TTML and WebVTT Mapping Document 14:28:23 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml-webvtt-mapping/mappingbetweenTTMLandWebVTTW3C.html 14:28:48 nigel: Any first reactions to this work? 14:31:11 nigel: My first reaction to this is very positive. I think there's some detail work to do, for example 14:31:23 ... around the difference in document ordering vs time ordering constraints between the two 14:31:36 ... formats that means that there's some extra complexity that may not be fully captured yet. 14:32:08 ... There are probably other comments too, but at least we have a document to hang them on. 14:32:34 mike: I think this is really good. We should think on a philosophical and logistical level about 14:32:51 ... the history. I'm not sure about EBU-TT. For SDP-US and IMSC1 they both started as 14:33:05 ... authoring constraints. You write down details, and then for interoperability you write it 14:33:22 ... down clearly and pretty soon you have a profile. I think that as this work matures we might 14:33:48 ... want to keep in the back of our mind that we might want to create a TTML profile to reflect 14:33:58 ... this work. That's something to keep in mind. 14:34:39 nigel: My sense is that the authors did have this in mind. Section 2.1 looks almost exactly 14:34:44 ... like a TTML profile. 14:38:08 nigel: We'll certainly cover this at TPAC so I'd strongly encourage anyone with thoughts on this 14:38:56 ... to make the authors aware well before we get to Japan so they can think about them. 14:39:14 mike: Shall I file an issue re the use of "T2" being confusable with TTML2? 14:39:23 nigel: Sure, go ahead. There's a product for this document in the Tracker. 14:39:58 tmichel: I have a question. I was really impressed by the work done in this mapping. The Editors 14:40:12 ... have done a really big piece of work. I wanted to speak about the next steps. We currently 14:40:28 ... have an Editor's draft. When do we plan to publish something on /TR that would allow us 14:40:42 ... to get more feedback and track the responses on the Timed Text mailing list? 14:40:59 nigel: Why does it need to be on /TR for that to happen? 14:41:12 tmichel: It doesn't, but it would give it more visibility. It's not easy to find that document. 14:41:24 ... I put a link in the wiki from our dashboard, and there was an announcement on the public 14:41:43 ... mailing list, but maybe in a month or two when it is more polished we may want to put it on /TR, maybe after TPAC? 14:42:04 q+ 14:42:38 nigel: If we publish on /TR as a Note can we keep updating it? 14:42:57 tmichel: We can either just publish and update, or we can publish a 1st Working Draft and then 14:43:13 ... updates later. It doesn't mean that it's 'final'. Some groups feel that a Note is something 14:43:20 ... more finalised. It's up to the group. 14:43:23 ack pal 14:44:34 pal: Do we need to make that decision today or can we review it and then decide what to do? 14:45:14 +1 14:45:29 nigel: My proposal would be to assess this following TPAC when we know more the magnitude of the work to be done. 14:45:32 tmichel: +q 14:45:34 +1 14:45:36 s/q/1 14:46:09 nigel: That's agreed then I think! 14:46:36 tmichel: Just one small thing, which I think I mentioned to Courtney already. I think we should 14:46:53 ... explicitly describe how to send the feedback. Either on tracker to start with or in the SOTD. 14:46:59 nigel: +1 14:47:54 Action: courtney Update the Mapping document Status of this document to include feedback mechanism. 14:47:54 Created ACTION-422 - Update the mapping document status of this document to include feedback mechanism. [on Courtney Kennedy - due 2015-09-24]. 14:48:45 nigel: I see that the document has a CC A3 license. Is that a respec requirement? Is it normal? 14:48:55 tmichel: I was not expecting that statement. 14:49:03 nigel: Do we have a W3C policy on licenses for notes? 14:49:08 tmichel: I'll check and come back on that. 14:49:24 Action: tmichel Check the license on the TTML to WebVTT mapping document 14:49:24 Created ACTION-423 - Check the license on the ttml to webvtt mapping document [on Thierry Michel - due 2015-09-24]. 14:49:45 Topic: HTMLCue proposal 14:49:56 Action-416? 14:49:56 Action-416 -- Nigel Megitt to Edit proposal and send to htmlcue proposal reviewers as listed by tmichel, following action-415 -- due 2015-08-27 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:49:56 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/416 14:50:17 close action-416 14:50:17 Closed action-416. 14:50:36 nigel: A discussion has started on the WHATWG list. The initial feedback is we need to add more 14:51:00 ... detail and that without it we may (inadvertantly?) have created a bunch of possible usage 14:51:12 ... scenarios that we didn't intend, like adding timed scripts to elements. 14:51:39 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2015Sep/0032.html 14:52:12 nigel: It's worth having a look at the responses. My current thought is that we may end up 14:52:31 ... going down a path of constraining the content of the HTMLCue so it begins to look only 14:52:47 ... like a small subset of HTML, to avoid dealing with those complexities. 14:53:47 nigel: So I think we need to iterate over this again and think it through some more. 14:54:05 Topic: Unicode Liaison 14:54:23 nigel: Just to note that there's a supporting liaison on the ticket we raised, from DVB, who have 14:54:40 ... a working group who would like to be able to reference the same output of CLDR as us. 14:54:51 http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915 14:55:27 pal: I've had no responses other than it seems like someone is looking at it, which is very encouraging. 14:55:42 Mike: I've forwarded the details of this to DECE and they were supportive of adding DECE support too. 14:56:37 ... I haven't made that happen yet. 14:57:07 Topic: ATSC liaison 14:57:10 action-418? 14:57:11 action-418 -- Nigel Megitt to Send response back to atsc as per https://lists.w3.org/archives/member/member-tt/2015aug/0019.html -- due 2015-09-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:57:11 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/418 14:57:45 Mike: It's received, so no more action needed on that. 14:57:48 close action-418 14:57:48 Closed action-418. 14:58:10 Topic: @codecs registry 14:58:15 nigel: Is there anything more to do on this? 14:58:44 mike: I made some changes since we last looked, so it would be good if people could review it, 14:58:58 ... particularly the changes for EBU standards after I discussed it with Andreas. 15:00:04 nigel: I think this is one for Frans and I to check. 15:00:07 Frans: yes. 15:00:22 Mike: I have a process question about whether we need to do something in TTML2 for this, 15:01:08 ... and if it falls under the category of group consensus. 15:01:20 nigel: Please could you drop me a line with the question exactly? 15:01:27 mike: I'll follow up offline. 15:02:03 nigel: We're out of time so thanks everyone. [Adjourns meeting] 15:02:46 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:02:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:04:24 s/Present+ pal/Present+ Pierre 15:05:00 s/indeed/ 15:09:36 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:09:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:14:10 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 15:14:11 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:14:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:08:34 Zakim has left #tt