11:59:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdw
11:59:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/16-sdw-irc
11:59:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
11:59:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sdw
11:59:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
11:59:48 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
11:59:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
11:59:49 <trackbot> Date: 16 September 2015
11:59:54 <kerry> present+ kerry
12:00:01 <kerry> chair: ed parsons
12:00:06 <kerry> scibe: kerry
12:00:12 <MaikRiechert> present+ MaikRiechert
12:00:12 <kerry> scribe: kerry
12:00:18 <eparsons> eparsons has joined #sdw
12:00:21 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
12:00:22 <kerry> scribenick: kerry
12:01:07 <eparsons> trackbot, start meeting
12:01:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
12:01:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
12:01:11 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
12:01:12 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
12:01:12 <trackbot> Date: 16 September 2015
12:01:22 <eparsons> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:01:31 <eparsons> present+ eparsons
12:01:34 <kerry> regrets + andreas harth
12:01:46 <kerry> regrets+ frans knibbe
12:02:00 <kerry> regrets+ bart van leeuwen
12:02:02 <eparsons> Meeting: SDW WG Weekly
12:02:59 <kerry> regrets+ andreas harth
12:03:48 <PhilippeThiran> PhilippeThiran has joined #sdw
12:03:55 <kerry> people in the room at the ogc meeting keyworth:
12:04:05 <Alejandro_Llaves> Alejandro_Llaves has joined #sdw
12:04:07 <PhilippeThiran> present+ PhilippeThiran
12:04:21 <Alejandro_Llaves> present+ Alejandro_Llaves
12:04:23 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #sdw
12:04:30 <kerry> jeremy tandy, chris little, phil archer, josh lieberman
12:05:15 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
12:06:15 <kerry> ... <missed > linda van brink, simon cox, robert.., ,missing these> christine perey, ed parsons
12:06:32 <eparsons> Topic: Approve Minutes
12:06:44 <kerry> topic: approve minutes
12:07:06 <jtandy> +1
12:07:08 <eparsons> http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-sdw-minutes.html
12:07:09 <PhilippeThiran> +1
12:07:11 <joshlieberman> joshlieberman has joined #sdw
12:07:11 <eparsons> +1
12:07:14 <Linda> Linda has joined #sdw
12:07:15 <joshlieberman> +1
12:07:22 <Linda> present+ Linda
12:07:22 <AZ> AZ has joined #sdw
12:07:29 <Alejandro_Llaves> +1
12:07:40 <eparsons> RESOLVED: Accept last meeting minutes
12:07:47 <kerry> RESOLVED: http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-sdw-minutes.html minutes approved
12:07:50 <jonblower> jonblower has joined #sdw
12:07:59 <eparsons> Topic: Patent Call
12:08:25 <kerry> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
12:09:07 <kerry> topic: Its about time
12:09:20 <ChrisLittle> ChrisLittle has joined #sdw
12:09:49 <AZ> present+ AZ
12:10:53 <Rachel> Rachel has joined #sdw
12:11:06 <Rachel> present+ Rachel
12:11:41 <kerry> Fen Pan: owl time was 10 years ago for my phd --  not state of the art any more
12:11:56 <kerry> s/fen/Feng/
12:12:09 <kerry> .... motivation was semantic web and naturl language
12:12:49 <kerry> ... e.g online shopping , user preferences, service time
12:13:22 <kerry> ... question answering, event ordering, summarization
12:13:30 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sdw
12:13:40 <kerry> ... in NL temporal information is vague
12:14:25 <MattPerry> present+ MattPerry
12:14:31 <kerry> .... now used with owl-s and TimeML in timebank corpus
12:15:04 <kerry> ... also for data integration, video, GIS 10 years ago, ..
12:15:30 <kerry> ...was once DAML-time -- for web pages and web services
12:15:59 <LarsG> LarsG has joined #sdw
12:16:09 <kerry> ...goal to separate from other ontologies, alos avail as FOL axioms
12:16:11 <LarsG> present+ LarsG
12:16:25 <kerry> ... includes Allen relations
12:17:20 <kerry> ... duration descriptions as intervals or instants -- how long does it last?
12:17:45 <kerry> ...clocks and calendars
12:18:13 <kerry> ...temporal aggregates extends basic primitives
12:18:23 <kerry> ...eg 4 consecutive sunday
12:18:50 <kerry> ... goal to handle any collection of entities
12:19:10 <kerry> ... complex aggregates
12:19:45 <kerry> ... e.g. every other Monday in every 3rd month
12:22:57 <kerry> ....next speaker: simon cox
12:23:12 <kerry> ... minor extension to the barcelona presentation
12:23:26 <kerry> ... small extension to owl-time
12:25:58 <kerry> ... review of Allen's 13 interval relations
12:27:16 <kerry> ...tied to gregorian calendar
12:27:45 <kerry> ... misses geologic time such as counting backwrds and geological periods
12:28:05 <kerry> ... also Hebrew calendar, GPS time, Unix time etc
12:29:29 <kerry> ...propose to an extension that generalises the datetimedescription and temporal coordinates on a scale
12:29:56 <kerry> ... this is a superclss of the original date-time
12:30:33 <kerry> ... proposed generalisation supports indication of temporal reference system and more representations
12:30:54 <kerry> ...preserves interval calculus
12:31:03 <kerry> ...no change for owl-time users
12:31:24 <kerry> ...applause
12:31:48 <kerry> next  speaker: chis little
12:32:05 <Linda> Linda has joined #sdw
12:32:15 <kerry> s/chis/chris/
12:32:30 <kerry> chris: have you got time?
12:33:17 <MaikRiechert> slides are not fullscreen, maybe wrong screen shared
12:33:19 <kerry> ...about a year ago we wanted a best practice doc in OGC
12:33:31 <kerry> ... we have some ideas
12:34:28 <Alejandro_Llaves> the sound is not clear now...
12:35:27 <MaikRiechert> sound is good
12:35:57 <Alejandro_Llaves> better no!
12:36:00 <kerry> ... idea of tmporal regimes
12:36:06 <Alejandro_Llaves> now*
12:36:17 <kerry> ...people confuse events, clocks and ...
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12:37:12 <kerry> ...events are ordered in time , coutably infinite, can do allen operators but cannot measure area, topological only
12:37:42 <kerry> ... Clcks are different
12:38:01 <kerry> ... ordered time instants
12:38:14 <LarsG> s/Clcks/Clocks/
12:38:18 <kerry> ... no intermediate times... can do some interval stuff
12:39:15 <kerry> ... eg atomic time. most clock times, bad notation if precision too great (?)
12:40:06 <kerry> ... coord ref system definable e.g. years before Christ, years before current year,
12:40:22 <kerry> .... type 3 is calendar
12:40:54 <kerry> ..a the class of calendards is disjoint with the class of CRSs!
12:41:31 <kerry> ... type4: astronomical - requires observation of mon=on,sun,stars
12:42:01 <kerry> ... type 5: Notation is not a timescale, CRS or calendar
12:42:26 <kerry> < lost a lot of sound>
12:42:59 <kerry> ... what notation is appliable for each regime?
12:43:19 <kerry> ...here be dragons
12:45:54 <kerry> ...welcom ray denenberg
12:46:06 <MaikRiechert> Kerry, can you mute your mic during presentations as we can hear you typing?
12:46:09 <kerry> ... ray can only do voice?
12:46:38 <kerry> s/welcom/welcome/
12:52:37 <kerry> ... extended date time format
12:53:06 <kerry> date time string more expressive than iso8601
12:54:11 <kerry> ...some of 8601 is redundant-- seems good to restrict it, and also extend it for some common things that are missing
12:54:25 <kerry> ... level 0 is a profile
12:54:36 <kerry> ...level 1 is simple extension
12:55:09 <kerry> .... level 2  is more complex
12:55:26 <kerry> ... motivated by bibliographic data but spread widely
12:56:08 <kerry> ... only thing we need from 8601 is date, time and interval
12:56:32 <kerry> ... only 4 digit years and extended form (hyphnes)
12:57:15 <kerry> ... data and time has one of three forms
12:57:58 <kerry> ... interval is date/date... no times no durations but different precisions ok
12:58:06 <kerry> ...now level 1
12:59:31 <kerry> ... uncertain: ? , approx: ~, unspecified: u,
13:00:14 <kerry> ... extended interval: "unknown"  or "open"
13:01:47 <kerry> ... years exceeding 4 digits: Y at beginning of string (but only the year is writable)
13:02:24 <kerry> ... season: 21-24 are season indicators, look like months
13:03:07 <kerry> ...level 2 allows these things to be mixed
13:03:49 <kerry> ... e.g date with approx day but we are sure about the month and the year
13:04:59 <kerry> ...level2 year can be written in exponential form with significant digit precision indicator
13:05:51 <kerry> ... now a new group on ISO8601 part 2  iso tc 154 wg 5
13:06:09 <kerry> ... links to more info in slides
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13:06:43 <LarsG> applaus
13:06:45 <kerry> <appluse and thanks>
13:07:01 <kerry> s/applus/applause/
13:07:45 <kerry> chris: i can see that route, but concern it is north american eg seasons (wet/dry)
13:08:02 <kerry> ....p for precision may be confused with periods
13:08:15 <kerry> ...u for unspecified looks like German for hour
13:08:43 <kerry> Ray: all that is in the English version-- other languages available too
13:10:17 <kerry> simon: only a subset of 8601 is used as other markup is used for the rest in Web languages
13:10:39 <kerry> ... pushing it into short space may be outdated
13:10:55 <kerry> ... sceptical about the coding
13:11:12 <kerry> ... precision looks interesting
13:11:37 <kerry> .... may be not applicable in this context
13:12:15 <kerry> Ray: would like to see it as a datatype like in xsd
13:13:01 <kerry> jeremy: many good use cases around this
13:13:07 <eparsons> Topic: Coverages and Earth Observation in Linked Data
13:13:19 <jonblower> Questions I would have asked Ray - what is the difference between "uncertain" and "approximate" time?
13:13:50 <jonblower> Also, a use case - it's common to find a photograph where you know what month (or even day) it was taken (e.g. a birthday) but you don't know what year it was taken in.
13:14:35 <eparsons> http://www.w3.org/2015/ceo-ld/
13:15:02 <kerry> topic: CEO-LD
13:15:27 <kerry> phila: concenr that interenst and capacity on coverages is limited
13:15:37 <kerry> s/concenr/concern
13:16:32 <kerry> phil: bringing in the uk stallite centre and chines people from <> and Martin sweeting from surrey
13:16:49 <kerry> ...they cannot write the standard... that is our job.
13:17:20 <kerry> jitao yang and manolis kouubarakis  (+ another?) will be editors
13:17:36 <kerry> ...close cooperation but we are in charge!
13:18:06 <kerry> ... prg j bolton is behind this ... the earth began in edinburgh
13:18:16 <kerry> ... thats where the big bang was..
13:18:27 <kerry> ...the queen did it all...
13:19:23 <kerry> ...<phil rewrites physics and geology to get us help in sdw coverages deliverable>
13:19:34 <eparsons> Topic: Best Practice Doc. Planning
13:19:54 <kerry> topic:  best practices
13:20:15 <kerry> jeremy:  BP is the BIG deliverable
13:20:27 <kerry> ... progress to date
13:21:00 <kerry> ... agreed 7 common themes
13:21:05 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Consolidated_Narratives
13:21:38 <kerry> .... wanting a narrative form
13:21:59 <kerry> ... reads out the 7 themes
13:22:31 <kerry> +1 subject to a later check on completeness wrt use cases
13:23:00 <ChrisLittle> ChrisLittle has joined #sdw
13:23:06 <kerry> jeremy: e.g. 1.6
13:23:31 <kerry> ...are these the right 7?
13:23:37 <ChrisLittle> zakim presesnt+
13:23:50 <ChrisLittle> zakim present+
13:24:18 <kerry> jon: why should i do anything differnt for linked data -- why not GIS solution?
13:24:39 <kerry> Ed: also looking at a broader community without that baggage
13:25:12 <kerry> jeremy: yes  need to address this in introdcution -- these are are reasons for revisiting these things
13:25:29 <kerry> s/introcution/introduction/
13:25:57 <ChrisLittle> action: bl;ower
13:26:23 <kerry> ACTION: jon blower to do soething kerry did not catch
13:26:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-77 - Blower to do soething kerry did not catch [on Jon Blower - due 2015-09-23].
13:26:39 <ChrisLittle> action: blower to provide text around value add of following the BPs
13:26:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-78 - Provide text around value add of following the bps [on Jon Blower - due 2015-09-23].
13:27:00 <kerry> jeremy: not just data on a USB stick. Not necessarily RDF though.
13:27:26 <jonblower> (Just for the record, I volunteer to do this based on info gathered in the MELODIES project, http://melodiesproject.eu)
13:27:27 <kerry> jeremy: are we talking about linked data here?
13:27:34 <kerry> kerry +1
13:27:39 <kerry> ed +1
13:28:06 <kerry> jeremy: consensus sought -- are there other views?
13:28:43 <kerry> ed: different platform and methodology to waht we have done before -- but building on all that has gone before
13:29:01 <kerry> phial: does not have to be rdf
13:29:23 <kerry> phil: in theory not just rdf but in practce probably yes
13:29:34 <kerry> ..... uris are critical
13:29:58 <kerry> .... do we spend the net 37 montjs talking about urls and uris????
13:30:14 <kerry> jeremy: original web architecture
13:30:23 <kerry> ... is being checked over
13:30:41 <kerry> .... we have consensus that linked data perspective is key to out work
13:31:19 <kerry> ... does not need to be so obviously rdf .... gml was rdf once long ago..
13:31:36 <kerry> ...what makes a good best practice? what makes it come alive?
13:31:58 <kerry> ...could use json-ld sometimes
13:32:09 <kerry> ...maybe geojson where appropriate
13:32:26 <kerry> ..."coming at it from a linked data perspective"
13:32:52 <kerry> jonblower: this is key, but may not be linked data everywhere
13:33:18 <kerry> jeremy: this will come out of our discussions especially around ceo-ld (coverages)
13:34:07 <kerry> peter: surprised at non-evolutionary... <lost sound>  in the end rdf is just another encoding (like XML was)
13:34:32 <kerry> ... can be represented in netcdf and xml and rdf
13:34:54 <kerry> jeremy: that is why we have "publishing with clear semantics"
13:35:26 <kerry> ... our best practice will answer how to do this
13:35:51 <kerry> ... big new idea is that we want to be able to talk about stuff about the data right inside the dataset
13:36:08 <kerry> .... number 4 and number5 are realted in some stated way
13:36:32 <kerry> peter: <something about foreign keys... reference is a generic concept>
13:36:52 <kerry> Jeremy: its a global reference rather than a local reference this time
13:37:07 <kerry> ....web scale foreign keys
13:37:46 <kerry> ed: you will publish your data at the most granular level you feel happy with on the web
13:38:55 <kerry> jeremy: what are the methodologies that will go in the best practice doc? e.g for geospatail we know htere are at least 4 vocabs with overlap
13:39:20 <kerry> ...or job is to say in this case use X, or ain all cases use X
13:39:27 <kerry> s/ain/in/
13:40:07 <kerry> peter: different concepts need to be delineated... (?)
13:40:24 <kerry> <floor>: is the order of the issues meaningful?
13:40:33 <kerry> ed: not yet
13:40:49 <kerry> jeremy: top of list might be geometry
13:41:37 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #sdw
13:42:05 <kerry> peter: coverage is my topic... will there be one overarching ... need to be clear on ... <missed>
13:42:09 <jtandy> http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/
13:42:28 <kerry> jeremy: phil has created a skeleton
13:42:50 <kerry> phil: doing this is easy this time
13:43:04 <kerry> ... everything is on github
13:43:10 <kerry> ...respec does clever stuff
13:43:30 <kerry> ... a psace for ogc doc number when assigned
13:43:48 <kerry> ... a price if you know who william lloyd was
13:44:01 <kerry> <lost sound>
13:44:20 <kerry> Jeremy:  our BP doc looks ike this now
13:44:33 <kerry> s/proce/prize/
13:44:40 <kerry> s/price/prize/
13:45:25 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Structure_Examples
13:45:32 <kerry> jeremy: what makes a good practice
13:46:01 <kerry> jeremy: asked contributers to identify where they have sen bp before
13:46:12 <kerry> ed: eddystone project at google
13:46:28 <kerry> ...connenct your computer to prjector by speaking, uses bluetooth
13:46:46 <kerry> s/connenct/connect/
13:47:31 <kerry> ...balances a formal  description with code snippets for developers
13:48:01 <kerry> chirs: 150107 is best practice OGC doc number!
13:48:31 <kerry> Allejandro: ?
13:49:26 <kerry> allejandro: data on the web best practice is good becuase it summariesed the pocedure well at the front with more details linked to those steps
13:49:51 <AndreaPerego>  /me : I'm back.
13:49:58 <kerry> s/pocedure/procedure/
13:50:13 <kerry> s/chirs/chris/
13:50:19 <AndreaPerego> s/\/me : I'm back.//
13:50:50 <kerry> jeremey: api oc for google maps for mixture of tutorial and sample code
13:51:09 <kerry> ...but you get what you pay for -- this would have ben a big effort for thousands of readers
13:52:05 <kerry> ...plan to identify technologies and methodologies for each best practice next. assign to members of wg to write up and buld code snippets
13:52:25 <kerry> ...one of the seven to be lead exemplar
13:52:43 <kerry> .... what should that be?
13:52:52 <ChrisLittle> s/150107/15-107/
13:53:05 <kerry> +q
13:53:45 <kerry> floor: how do people participate if they have only an hour?
13:54:11 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Consolidated_Narratives
13:54:16 <kerry> jeremy: using the wiki.. get started using the mailing list
13:54:45 <kerry> ... mail on the mailing list most useful now
13:54:56 <SimonCox> floor == Mark Hedley, Met Office
13:55:24 <kerry> ed: 1.1 or 1.4
13:56:16 <kerry> kerry: semantics
13:56:34 <kerry> ed: tosses coin
13:56:54 <eparsons> Topic: Geonovum tender for a SDW testbed
13:56:58 <kerry> jeremy: linking data it is.
13:57:10 <kerry> resolved: focus on linking data narrative first
13:57:32 <kerry> Topic: linda on geonovum tender
13:58:01 <kerry> linda:  first news item on geonovum website mentions request for tender for testbed
13:58:49 <kerry> linda: this doc describes what we want to o -- want to help to get spatail data infrastructures to be a success
13:58:52 <eparsons> http://www.geonovum.nl/sites/default/files/Invitationtotender-SDWtestbed.pdf
13:59:18 <kerry> ... having trouble with traditional spatail standards but we need somequestions answered.
13:59:36 <kerry> ... decided not to answer these ourselves but to ask the market.
13:59:53 <kerry> ...can see the questions and how to go about responding
14:00:31 <kerry> ...could be a consortium or a sngle company or...
14:00:57 <kerry> jeremy: overlap between your questions and ours in SDWWG
14:01:14 <kerry> linda: any questions direct to me
14:01:44 <ChrisLittle> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:01:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/16-sdw-minutes.html ChrisLittle
14:01:44 <kerry> meeting closed midnight
14:01:44 <AndreaPerego> Bye
14:01:45 <Alejandro_Llaves> bye, thanks!
14:01:58 <ChrisLittle> bye
14:02:04 <AZ> bye
14:02:07 <kerry> bye!
14:02:15 <LarsG> bye
14:02:23 <ChrisLittle> thanks Kerry (PP Phil)
14:02:27 <kerry> rrsagent, make logs world
14:02:37 <eparsons> by all thanks Kerry !!
15:56:28 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sdw