IRC log of social on 2015-09-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:00:33 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #social
17:00:33 [RRSAgent]
logging to
17:00:35 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:00:35 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #social
17:00:35 [elf-pavlik]
started based protoype for implementing our deliverables
17:00:37 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SOCL
17:00:37 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
17:00:38 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
17:00:38 [trackbot]
Date: 15 September 2015
17:00:40 [sandro]
zakim, what is the code?
17:00:40 [Zakim]
no conference has been identified yet, sandro
17:01:03 [tantek]
csarven: yes I saw your webmention implementation/documentation - very interesting and helps broaden the space!
17:01:06 [hhalpin]
hhalpin has joined #social
17:01:21 [cwebber2]
joining, 1sec
17:01:22 [tantek]
The latest thing I've built is photo posts on my site
17:01:32 [elf-pavlik]
present+ elf-pavlik
17:01:45 [cwebber2]
tantek: I wrote a json-ld parser that can do expansion, so far
17:01:47 [tantek]
I'm spending more time on the implied post type algorithm than on trying to improve AS
17:01:49 [cwebber2]
well mostly, a couple of bugs
17:02:00 [cwebber2]
on the "what people have built lately" front
17:02:07 [Arnaud]
present+ Arnaud
17:02:14 [elf-pavlik]
present+ AnnB
17:02:19 [wilkie]
present+ wilkie
17:02:30 [tantek]
tantek has changed the topic to: WG: - Next meeting agenda: - logs:
17:02:39 [csarven]
present+ csarven
17:02:53 [sandro]
present+ sandro
17:03:04 [tantek]
and csarven - your webmention implementation was a month or so ago right? anything since then?
17:03:12 [cwebber2]
present+ cwebber2
17:03:24 [tantek]
elf-pavlik: sure! add the upcoming link of IG agenda too!
17:04:13 [csarven]
tantek I've made a PR for AS2 3-4 weeks ago. Hoping that James will review/merge soon ;)
17:04:18 [sandro]
phone number: +1-617-324-0000 There is a meeting number: 642 112 960 The password is still 'socl'
17:04:29 [tantek]
csarven++ thank you for contributing to the spec
17:04:30 [csarven]
tantek Working on LinkedResearch as per usual...
17:04:31 [Loqi]
csarven has 15 karma
17:04:53 [cwebber2]
17:05:08 [cwebber2]
huge pile of scheme :)
17:05:10 [tantek]
present+ tantek
17:05:34 [rhiaro]
present+ rhiaro
17:05:36 [wilkie]
I can scribe
17:05:39 [wilkie]
cwebber2: very cool
17:05:57 [AnnB]
wilkie ++
17:06:08 [wilkie]
cwebber2: somebody else who uses scheme to process stuff. good to see :)
17:06:15 [cwebber2]
wilkie: :D
17:06:29 [tantek]
17:06:30 [wilkie]
17:06:31 [Loqi]
wilkie has 20 karma
17:07:09 [wilkie]
Arnaud: welcome. as usual we will start with admin. first one: approval of the minutes
17:07:18 [Arnaud]
PROPOSED: Approval of Minutes of 8 September 2015
17:07:19 [wilkie]
TOPIC: Approval of the Minutes of Sept. 8th
17:07:20 [elf-pavlik]
17:07:20 [tantek]
17:07:24 [rhiaro]
17:07:27 [wilkie]
Arnaud: any objections/concerns?
17:07:28 [cwebber2]
17:07:34 [Arnaud]
RESOLVED: Approval of Minutes of 8 September 2015
17:07:56 [wilkie]
TOPIC: Charter Update
17:08:12 [tantek]
sandro, are you on the phone and can say something about where we are with W3T and charter?
17:08:32 [wilkie]
Arnaud: there was a review by the members to update.
17:08:32 [tantek]
sandro: W3M has to review it the results, which they will do tomorrow morning.
17:09:00 [tantek]
AnnB: W3M = W3C Management
17:09:09 [wilkie]
AnnB: W3M is the management of the W3C, if it is not clean
17:09:15 [wilkie]
17:09:25 [tantek]
how long does W3M review of the results take?
17:09:38 [tantek]
17:09:46 [sandro]
Probably about 30 seconds during their next meeting, which is 9am ET tomorrow.
17:09:49 [wilkie]
Arnaud: there is a proposal from tantek to start using the new license and republish the AS spec (I assume the two different documents: core/vocab) using the new license
17:09:50 [tantek]
if we can agree to it today, perhaps we can do it by next Tuesday?
17:09:56 [wilkie]
Arnaud: any comments?
17:10:02 [Loqi]
Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-09-15]]
17:10:16 [tantek]
PROPOSAL: Start using the new license and republish the AS spec (two different documents: core/vocab) using the new license
17:10:21 [wilkie]
Arnaud: two possibilities: the WG has to agree and the editor has to commit the update.
17:10:37 [tantek]
+1 :)
17:10:37 [wilkie]
Arnaud: if we agree on the proposal then we can ask the editor to carry out the resolution of that update
17:10:48 [AnnB]
17:10:49 [wilkie]
sandro: we can just have him publish at his earliest convenience
17:10:56 [wilkie]
Arnaud: exactly. any questions/concerns
17:11:18 [tantek]
I would prefer that csarven's pull request be considered, but am ok with publishing WD without.
17:11:18 [csarven]
Nothing critical.. only a new example.
17:11:19 [cwebber2]
17:11:21 [elf-pavlik]
17:11:27 [wilkie]
sandro: I saw csarven say something about PRs not merged, so should we see what changes would be made there?
17:11:43 [csarven]
I don't know if a new example is significant for license stuff..
17:11:47 [wilkie]
Arnaud: I would hope not just the license gets changed, but also any normal updates and revisions.
17:11:52 [sandro]
+1 assuming James agrees there've been no substantive changes not backed up by WG resolution
17:11:57 [tantek]
csarven, up to you, +1 or +0 accordingly per your preference
17:11:57 [wilkie]
Arnaud: I'd like to ask jasnell and see that he agrees.
17:12:21 [wilkie]
sandro: I voted +1 *repeats comment above in IRC*
17:13:00 [wilkie]
tantek: I'm assuming jasnell would object if there are any problems.
17:13:17 [tantek]
agree with Arnaud
17:13:44 [wilkie]
Arnaud: I'm a bit concerned about your concerns because we would assume problems and issues are handled by the WG.
17:13:48 [elf-pavlik]
+1 sandro (clarifying +1 just for license no other changes)
17:13:54 [tantek]
sandro: James may have made substantial changes that he has not yet notified the working group, and wanted make sure that he's not just slipping those changes through.
17:14:08 [wilkie]
Arnaud: I see all +1s so we can call it resolved
17:14:10 [Arnaud]
RESOLVED: Start using the new license and republish the AS spec (two different documents: core/vocab) using the new license
17:14:11 [sandro]
no other SUBSTANTIVE changes -- editorial are fine.
17:14:27 [tantek]
sandro, presumably examples too? like csarven's?
17:14:37 [sandro]
examples are always editorial
17:14:56 [wilkie]
Arnaud: I was hoping we'd be able to talk about AS with jasnell and the issues that are open. but we won't be able to do that.
17:14:58 [eprodrom]
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17:15:00 [wilkie]
Arnaud: maybe later if he can join
17:15:01 [tantek]
Zakim, who is here?
17:15:01 [Zakim]
Present: elf-pavlik, Arnaud, AnnB, wilkie, csarven, sandro, cwebber2, tantek, rhiaro
17:15:02 [eprodrom]
17:15:03 [Zakim]
On IRC I see eprodrom, hhalpin, Zakim, RRSAgent, tantek, tilgovi_, bblfish, jasnell, elf-pavlik, csarven, AnnB, Arnaud, melvster, wilkie, dwhly, cwebber2, pdurbin, oshepherd,
17:15:03 [Zakim]
... rhiaro, ben_thatmustbeme, Loqi, slvrbckt, bigbluehat, bret, aaronpk, tommorris_, tessierashpool_, tsyesika, raucao, ElijahLynn, sandro, trackbot, wseltzer
17:15:15 [wilkie]
Arnaud: so we will change the agenda order to talk about the social api
17:15:35 [tantek]
eprodrom: I'd like to talk about the charter change
17:15:37 [wilkie]
eprodrom: I'd like to make a comment about the charter change
17:15:55 [wilkie]
eprodrom: I'd wonder if now would be the time to talk about other changes to the charter
17:16:01 [wilkie]
AnnB: can you specify what other changes?
17:16:01 [tantek]
eprodrom: like extending the charter
17:16:13 [wilkie]
eprodrom: at least the duration of the working group
17:16:30 [wilkie]
eprodrom: our schedule has us finishing by the end of next year which is optimistic
17:16:32 [sandro]
End date 31 December 2016
17:16:39 [tantek]
q+ to provide update re: schedule
17:16:39 [wilkie]
eprodrom: we had talked about changing the schedule/duration of the WG
17:16:43 [tantek]
ack eprodrom
17:17:01 [wilkie]
eprodrom: the only reason I bring it up is because we had talked about changing the charter months ago and talked about other changes
17:17:05 [sandro]
17:17:10 [wilkie]
eprodrom: it might make sense to start that process now
17:17:17 [nicolagreco_]
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17:17:19 [wilkie]
Arnaud: do you want to make those changes? sounds like you are motivated
17:17:31 [AnnB]
thanks, Evan
17:17:51 [wilkie]
eprodrom: it feels like we have made a small change to the charter and we see that it takes a while to get that process going and don't want to be slow about that
17:18:07 [wilkie]
Arnaud: if we only need an extension in time we don't need a new charter for that
17:18:39 [wilkie]
Arnaud: if we are in a situation where we are out of time and need more and making progress we can make the case and a duration will be granted
17:18:52 [tantek]
re: schedule - I'm on the queue for that!
17:18:55 [AnnB]
I appreciate eprodrom trying to keep us realistic with schedule and commitments
17:19:08 [wilkie]
eprodrom: in our charter we do mention a schedule we are nowhere near hitting, but we do mention places to go to see an updated schedule
17:19:11 [sandro]
17:19:18 [sandro]
17:19:20 [Arnaud]
ack tantek
17:19:20 [Zakim]
tantek, you wanted to provide update re: schedule
17:19:24 [wilkie]
eprodrom: if we don't have changes to make to the charter, we don't have a problem then
17:19:43 [sandro]
17:19:45 [wilkie]
tantek: at the last telecon I was given the action of changing the schedule link on the wiki
17:20:02 [wilkie]
tantek: because we didn't want to change the schedule on the charter so we could say the only change was license
17:20:08 [tantek]
17:20:31 [wilkie]
tantek: I did my best to update our schedule based on what I know and what we've accomplished
17:20:54 [wilkie]
tantek: the schedule on the wiki is greatly expanded than before. please take a look if you are working.
17:21:23 [wilkie]
tantek: I left some of the optimist dates because if people are motivated they could complete things by that time
17:21:31 [rhiaro]
Okay, I'll probably add to / amend social api schedule soonish
17:21:31 [wilkie]
tantek: there was a request for more detail and I tried to provide that
17:21:34 [Arnaud]
ack sandro
17:21:50 [wilkie]
sandro: I agree with all that. no need for a charter change on those constraints.
17:22:02 [wilkie]
sandro: I want to amend the agenda to talk about F2F
17:22:06 [wilkie]
Arnaud: yeah, we can do that now if you want
17:22:12 [wilkie]
TOPIC: Face-to-Fae
17:22:14 [wilkie]
TOPIC: Face-to-Fae
17:22:15 [wilkie]
TOPIC: Face-to-Face
17:22:16 [wilkie]
17:22:29 [wilkie]
Arnaud: as you may have known, our F2F in Japan was canceled
17:22:46 [wilkie]
sandro: the options for the next one that people proposed has been San Francisco and Boston.
17:23:02 [wilkie]
sandro: we need 8 weeks notice so we have mid-November at the earliest
17:23:13 [wilkie]
sandro: we can do something earlier if everybody is ok with that
17:23:30 [tantek]
is anyone here going to Redecentralize Conference? E.g. I had no plans.
17:23:34 [elf-pavlik]
17:23:40 [hhalpin]
To close to Christmas will be hard for people, so I'd aim for mid-Nov or early Dec.
17:23:48 [wilkie]
sandro: but there is Redecentralize in London people may want to go to, so I'd say mid-December
17:23:54 [csarven]
January++ :)
17:23:55 [tantek]
I don't care about conflicting with redecentralize because no one here has said it conflicts
17:24:15 [hhalpin]
Sounds like time for a Doodle poll
17:24:32 [wilkie]
Arnaud: I want to clarify: when sandro says it is either SF or Boston, SF has two possibilities
17:24:48 [rhiaro]
+1 walkability
17:24:57 [tantek]
SF is convenient - can use public transit from SFO BART, and MUNI in town
17:25:00 [tantek]
SF has more walkability
17:25:04 [wilkie]
Arnaud: san francisco or south bay, one has good transportation but expensive and the other is cheap but you'll need a car
17:25:12 [tantek]
also Seattle was a possibility, Annb?
17:25:20 [wilkie]
Arnaud: we are still discussing it. no conclusion so far.
17:25:21 [elf-pavlik]
+1 good uplink for remote participation ;)
17:25:32 [wilkie]
tantek: seattle was also a possibility?
17:26:02 [wilkie]
AnnB: my concern is that Seattle is pretty far away from everything and we should opt for somewhere most people can attend
17:26:05 [hhalpin]
One advantage of Seattle would be possibility of engaging Microsoft. In SF, we could engage with folks from OpenSocial and AppFusions who were very supportive.
17:26:12 [cwebber2]
boston is easiest for me, but San Francisco I know people as well
17:26:22 [tantek]
hhalpin, have you had any contact with Twitter folks?
17:26:24 [hhalpin]
(but disappeared for reasons that are still kinda unkown!)
17:26:26 [rhiaro]
+1 Boston
17:26:27 [cwebber2]
being on a limited budget, finding crashspace is probably necessary for me to make it
17:26:34 [cwebber2]
boston would be great though :)
17:26:37 [ben_thatmustbeme]
Boston is certainly easiest for me
17:26:37 [hhalpin]
Yes, I have lots of Twiter contacts, they are too busy for standards work they said but are happy to watch
17:26:40 [tantek]
if we meet in SF we may be able to get some Twitter people to stop by midday? It's a quick MUNI ride for them.
17:26:44 [hhalpin]
and if they like it, you never know, implement
17:26:52 [wilkie]
Arnaud: the plan for now is for the chairs to figure out what they are doing and where can host and when we figure that out, we will get more input from the WG
17:26:54 [hhalpin]
I'll ping my contacts at Twitter.
17:26:59 [tantek]
hhalpin right, can we get them to show up for an hour or two? or join us for lunch?
17:27:07 [hhalpin]
I know mostly the security folks but gave a talk there where we mentioned AS2.0, had mostly positive reaction.
17:27:08 [tantek]
even informal participation from them would be invaluable
17:27:09 [Arnaud]
17:27:13 [wilkie]
Arnaud: we'll get back with options to choose from
17:27:21 [cwebber2]
wilkie: btw, since you're also a schemer, maybe I should get feedback from you on activitystuff once I start to approach 0.1 for sanity :)
17:27:26 [hhalpin]
Agreed tantek. As soon as we have a date, I'll see if we can drag some Twitter folks over
17:27:33 [tantek]
thank you hhalpin
17:28:01 [rhiaro]
Yeah, Boston just easiest, but happy to travel
17:28:15 [wilkie]
Arnaud: boston seems favored
17:28:16 [tantek]
I favor SF but can do Boston/Cambridge no problem
17:28:24 [eprodrom]
Me too
17:28:34 [wilkie]
Arnaud: let's move on
17:28:37 [wilkie]
17:28:55 [tantek]
rhiaro can you give us an update?
17:28:58 [wilkie]
Arnaud: I admit I missed last week's call. it is not clear where we stand, so can somebody tell me what is going on?
17:28:59 [AnnB]
in terms of "dragging others in" .. are there people / groups with toes in this water in Boston area, or maybe NYC?
17:29:02 [rhiaro]
17:29:08 [Arnaud]
ack rhiaro
17:29:09 [wilkie]
Arnaud: what is stopping us from making progress
17:29:45 [tantek]
rhiaro: have not really worked on anything social for a couple of weeks. have talked with aaronpk and tsyesika a bunch
17:29:56 [wilkie]
rhiaro: I have not worked on much this past week. but I've working on a draft of a schedule maybe for next week.
17:30:00 [tantek]
rhiaro: can work on providing a draft of a schedule by TPAC
17:30:17 [wilkie]
Arnaud: do you have an idea of what the draft will look like?
17:30:20 [wilkie]
rhiaro: yes
17:30:25 [tantek]
rhiaro: I have an idea in my head [of what a first draft could look like]
17:30:58 [elf-pavlik]
cafe here closes in 10min, much appreciated if we can take 5min for
17:31:01 [nicolagreco]
nicolagreco has joined #social
17:31:09 [tsyesika]
17:31:17 [wilkie]
rhiaro: I think some of it is in tsyesika's head too
17:31:30 [wilkie]
Arnaud: so the three of you have in mind what the solution looks like and can put it in a draft
17:31:33 [wilkie]
rhiaro: definitely
17:31:37 [wilkie]
Arnaud: great news
17:32:00 [wilkie]
Arnaud: we can say if the three of you are in agreement that this is something the rest of the WG would be ok with it
17:32:08 [wilkie]
Arnaud: anything else with respect to the social API
17:32:23 [elf-pavlik]
17:32:24 [tantek]
agreed we should skip AS discussion this week
17:32:36 [elf-pavlik]
17:32:39 [elf-pavlik]
17:32:41 [wilkie]
Arnaud: I haven't seen jasnell joining, so not sure there is anything AS related we could talk about and make progress
17:32:50 [wilkie]
Arnaud: any other topic we could talk about?
17:32:50 [AnnB]
17:32:51 [Arnaud]
ack elf-pavlik
17:33:16 [wilkie]
elf-pavlik: after last week tantek made it clear implementation is very important.
17:33:56 [wilkie]
elf-pavlik: I made a simple wiki proposal for a syntax, a read-write API for federation, and federation.
17:34:12 [wilkie]
elf-pavlik: I want to people to look at it and discuss how to break up a implementation.
17:34:27 [tantek]
hmm - I don't think such project micromanagement of implementation is really needed - I mean if it helps your implementation great
17:34:29 [wilkie]
elf-pavlik: and come up with something that can express everything we wish to express
17:34:34 [tantek]
17:34:40 [wilkie]
Arnaud: anything else?
17:34:42 [Arnaud]
ack tantek
17:34:57 [wilkie]
tantek: I understand the value of having an implementation plan.
17:35:18 [wilkie]
tantek: I also break up things into parts. but I don't see the need to do that within the group or in a coordinated fashion.
17:35:24 [elf-pavlik]
17:35:34 [AnnB]
17:35:37 [wilkie]
tantek: our wiki lists actionable things for people to do. we have user stories... so as an implementor: get a user story done.
17:35:46 [jasnell]
my apologies, I ended up double booked today and won't be able to join today as expected. I'll catch up on the notes later on and weigh in on the mailing list
17:35:51 [wilkie]
tantek: or edit your comment on a user story vote to say "I've implemented this"
17:36:08 [Arnaud]
ack elf-pavlik
17:36:12 [wilkie]
tantek: if these are useful to others, great. elf-pavlik, are you committed to implementing these on your own site?
17:36:43 [tantek]
SWAT0 federation was implemented with webmention and PuSH
17:36:47 [wilkie]
elf-pavlik: yes. that's how I found out to do this. and from that want to know how people are implementing these user stories. what syntax they use, what the data model looks like, etc.
17:37:19 [wilkie]
elf-pavlik: I want that feedback is there without waiting for API discussion for other implementers
17:37:32 [tantek]
elf-pavlik: if you like that plan, just start building it yourself
17:37:45 [wilkie]
Arnaud: thank you elf-pavlik. I agree with tantek that it is a nice effort to coordinate, but nobody is bound to this schedule.
17:37:55 [nicolagreco]
nicolagreco has joined #social
17:37:56 [tantek]
17:38:07 [wilkie]
Arnaud: might be a practical way to test interoperability.
17:38:09 [elf-pavlik]
why so little implementations so far from participants of this group so far?
17:38:43 [wilkie]
AnnB: I liked what I read in the minutes that you decided to pursue the spirit of user stories rather than it was as written.
17:39:00 [wilkie]
AnnB: the objections were mostly about how the user story was written and it was unclear what the IG should be working on
17:39:04 [tantek]
17:39:09 [Arnaud]
ack tantek
17:39:16 [wilkie]
AnnB: I'm not sure if the IG is valuable.
17:39:48 [wilkie]
tantek: I think there is value in the interest group. and there needs to be a leader that asserts the value of the interest group.
17:40:02 [Loqi]
Sandro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg]]
17:40:34 [wilkie]
tantek: the interest group was there to help collect input from users and people who want social web standards and want them to do This but do not necessarily want or are able to implement them
17:40:55 [wilkie]
tantek: I would still like to see this. the interest group needs to step up and do something instead of asking what to do.
17:41:49 [wilkie]
Arnaud: there was a concern that past groups on this topic got bogged down on details and the interest group is for breaking that down and having a place for those details.
17:41:59 [tantek]
that's true - you (IG) doesn't have to have teleconferences
17:42:09 [tantek]
also - IG can use IRC to keep conversations going on
17:42:10 [wilkie]
Arnaud: i think it is reasonable to fall back to this mode where it is there if people want to use it or not.
17:42:31 [wilkie]
AnnB: I think that this is valuable for those reasons, but it may not be working like that in reality.
17:42:46 [nicolagreco]
nicolagreco has joined #social
17:43:21 [wilkie]
AnnB: I'm not sure if the industry is connected to smaller groups or communities. I'm only chair because mark stepped out, but maybe I'm not the best person for that.
17:43:50 [wilkie]
tantek: if you can't find a reason to have a teleconference, then do not. and that's ok. just when you need it.
17:43:54 [tantek]
happy to encourage IG conversations in this channel #social
17:44:04 [wilkie]
Arnaud: I hope this helps
17:44:06 [wilkie]
AnnB: thanks
17:44:08 [wilkie]
Arnaud: anything else?
17:44:10 [eprodrom]
17:44:13 [wilkie]
Arnaud: if not, we can finish early
17:44:14 [eprodrom]
Thanks Arnaud !
17:44:20 [AnnB]
thanks Arnaud
17:44:20 [wilkie]
Arnaud: alright let's close the call
17:44:27 [AnnB]
yay wilkie
17:44:32 [wilkie]
Arnaud: thanks every one. we will talk next week!
17:44:48 [Arnaud]
trackbot, end meeting
17:44:48 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
17:44:48 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been elf-pavlik, Arnaud, AnnB, wilkie, csarven, sandro, cwebber2, tantek, rhiaro
17:44:56 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:44:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
17:44:57 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
17:44:57 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items