15:00:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:00:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/10-html-a11y-irc
15:00:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
15:00:28 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:00:29 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:00:29 <trackbot> Date: 10 September 2015
15:01:00 <janina> agenda?
15:01:06 <janina> zakim, clear agenda
15:01:06 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:01:09 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:01:12 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Edits & Additions
15:01:15 <janina> agenda+ Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress -- Rich, Mark, Janina, Paul, PLH
15:01:17 <janina> agenda+ Transcript Support Update -- John
15:01:20 <janina> agenda+ Alt Doc Update -- Shane, Liam
15:01:22 <janina> agenda+ Web Payments Accessibility Followup
15:01:25 <janina> agenda+ AccessKey & Related -- Charles
15:01:27 <janina> agenda+ Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al
15:01:30 <janina> agenda+ Bug Triage -- Leonie
15:01:32 <janina> agenda+ TF Open Actions  http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track
15:01:35 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
15:01:37 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:01:59 <LJWatson> LJWatson has joined #html-a11y
15:03:30 <LJWatson> LJWatson has joined #html-a11y
15:04:33 <ShaneM> Present+ ShaneM
15:04:42 <LJWatson> present+ LJWatson
15:05:02 <Judy> Present+ Judy
15:05:25 <liam> present+ Liam
15:05:27 <janina>  present+ janina
15:05:41 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:05:41 <Zakim> Present: janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, JF, Liam, LJWatson, Plh, Judy, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ShaneM
15:05:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see LJWatson, RRSAgent, Joshue, Judy, ShaneM, janina, liam, Zakim, joanie, sivoais_, cabanier, trackbot
15:06:20 <liam> scribe: liam
15:06:23 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
15:06:27 <liam> chair: JS
15:07:24 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
15:07:35 <liam> [no changes to agenda]
15:08:14 <liam> JS: I believe we have a cfc that needs attention
15:08:18 <JF> Present+ JF
15:09:18 <liam> [plh not here to talk to cfc]
15:09:57 <liam> JS: I think we have sufficient conformance in testing to move to PR, but that's the cfc question
15:10:07 <liam> so this wg should look at the cfc and respond
15:10:46 <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2015Sep/0018.html
15:10:50 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
15:11:56 <liam> JS: on my read of the minutes it wasn't clear to me how we proposed to deal with this spec
15:12:10 <JF> Q+
15:12:17 <liam> Publishing a FPWD where the HTML WG would publish is problematic 'cos the HTML WG is about to close
15:12:27 <liam> Web Platform is the emerging new WG
15:12:42 <liam> Transcript seems a really good fit for the new Timed Media WG
15:12:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> Present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:13:17 <liam> and in scope for APA WG
15:13:44 <liam> so suggestion is to publish transcript as an HTML WG Note, to get enough status to go to timed media and say, why don't you take this up to rec track
15:13:52 <janina> q?
15:13:56 <janina> ack jf
15:14:06 <liam> JF: My recollection is that I asked for time to take a look at [the spec]
15:14:20 <liam> The original document from Charles left multiple options, and we need to narrow it down
15:14:34 <liam> big question is naming - got broad acceptance on the pattern
15:15:00 <janina> q?
15:15:05 <liam> I think the political issues are a distraction; can we put this on pause & take it up at TPAC?
15:15:13 <janina> q?
15:15:28 <janina> ack l
15:15:28 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to respond on process
15:15:41 <ShaneM> +! to what Liam said
15:15:46 <liam> JF: how hard is it to take up a note on to rec track?
15:15:57 <liam> Liam: very easy, and much harder to take up something that hasn't been published
15:16:16 <liam> JF: let's get it into something more formal
15:16:54 <liam> JS: I think it's clear & we have agreement that the document needs more work
15:17:08 <liam> question is, what to do with it at the moment to best shepherd it forward
15:17:14 <liam> we should do something before HTML WG closes
15:17:19 <LJWatson> q+
15:17:39 <liam> Note seems to make sense
15:17:44 <janina> ack le
15:17:49 <janina> ack lj
15:17:50 <liam> LJWatson: I disagree with John's assessment.
15:18:15 <liam> Given the timetable, this has been an ED for 4 or 5 months; waiting a few weeks isn't going to make much difference but might as well pause briefly
15:18:19 <liam> looks like TMWG
15:18:20 <janina> ack l
15:18:20 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to note we only have a few days to do a cfc
15:19:11 <LJWatson> s/I disagree with John's assessment/I agree with John's assessment/
15:19:14 <liam> Liam: we should issue a cfc this week if possible, if we are intending a note
15:19:51 <janina> q?
15:20:02 <liam> JF: [asks about PF vs APA ownership and FPWD vs Note]
15:20:16 <liam> JS: there's no APA yet
15:20:27 <liam> LJWatson: can't it just stay as an ED?
15:21:27 <liam> Shane: we went through this withanother WG and had to transition everything to a Note we wanted to work on later
15:21:40 <liam> HTML WG is going away
15:21:46 <liam> I hate wasting time on process stuff
15:21:58 <liam> JB: I wish it were more straightfoward
15:23:04 <janina> ack l
15:23:39 <liam> JS: meeting preference: leave as ED
15:24:49 <ShaneM> https://w3c.github.io/alt-techniques/
15:24:52 <liam> Shane: I made a pass through the latest draft
15:25:04 <liam> [mostly editorial]
15:25:05 <LJWatson> SM: Made a pass through of the doc, fixed grammatical things, references etc.
15:26:10 <LJWatson> LQ: I'm ok with this doc going forward.
15:26:30 <LJWatson> ... Would still like to see fewer examples, but that's a personal preference. Review from more people would be welcome.
15:26:50 <LJWatson> JS: From the URI Shane just posted?
15:26:53 <LJWatson> SM: Yes.
15:27:03 <JF> Q+
15:27:23 <LJWatson> ... This is a live doc. We're making edits. Do we want a review of a snapshot, or just note in the review request that it's a live doc?
15:27:31 <janina> ack jf
15:27:34 <LJWatson> JF: A snapshot review makes sense.
15:28:05 <LJWatson> ... Reducing the number of examples concerns me. One of the strengths of the original was that it considered the different contexts for alt text. Removing examples makes it less useful.
15:28:42 <LJWatson> LQ: The idea is to have a shorter doc in the HTML spec, but not lose the examples completely. Also, there are multiple examples for the same issue.
15:29:10 <LJWatson> ... The spec is for developers not content authors.
15:29:22 <LJWatson> JF: The target audience for this isn't coders, it's content authors.
15:30:00 <LJWatson> ... There are hybrid dev/authors out there, but the power of Steve's original doc was it's usefulness to content authors.
15:30:18 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
15:30:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/10-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:30:42 <LJWatson> LQ: Please take a look at what's there and comment.
15:31:15 <LJWatson> ... The HTML spec is for coders. There is a tension there.
15:31:19 <LJWatson> JF: Agreed.
15:31:46 <LJWatson> LQ: The HTML spec needs to answer questions from coders, like "I'm writing code and need to know what the alt attribute does".
15:32:11 <LJWatson> ... Developers are the primary audience for the HTML spec, that's why this doc is changing.
15:32:33 <LJWatson> ... Have been saving all examples I've removed, so we can recreate the author guidance.
15:32:52 <LJWatson> q+
15:33:01 <JF> Q+
15:33:18 <janina> ack lj
15:33:41 <liam> LJWatson: in terms of what we do with content no longer part of this doc, is that something we should hand over to EO?
15:34:05 <liam> JB: I think it'd be great to give them that opportunity
15:34:09 <LJWatson> LW: Perhaps the content authoring info that doesn't go into the HTML spec is something EO could work on?
15:34:32 <LJWatson> ... With PF and HTML WGs wrapping up at the end of this month, it would be good to have a caretaker for this authoring advice.
15:34:59 <janina> ack jf
15:35:00 <LJWatson> JB: Moving it to EO but with a "hello" to WCAG would be ideal.
15:35:25 <LJWatson> JF: Agree with Judy's assessment.
15:35:45 <LJWatson> ... It is a long document. I understand the need to edit it down, but don't want to lose it.
15:35:58 <LJWatson> ... +1 to Léonie, let's ask EO to take ownership of it.
15:36:28 <LJWatson> JS: We should review the spec rewrite and comment, then make sure we don't lose the supplementary content.
15:37:03 <LJWatson> ... We can ask EO with a copy to WCAG, to suggest that the non HTML spec content could do with further development.
15:37:14 <liam> [the longer version is available at https://w3c.github.io/alt-techniques/with-pictures.html ]
15:37:17 <LJWatson> JB: I'll give them a heads up.
15:37:46 <LJWatson> JS: When this comes up on the agenda next, can we focus on comments on the spec text and not what happens to the other content. Thanks.
15:38:29 <janina> q?
15:38:47 <liam> scribenick: liam
15:39:20 <liam> JS: we're looking to organize a subteam from this TF or its successor
15:39:40 <liam> we're looking for facilitators
15:39:45 <liam> and workers on the document
15:39:54 <liam> I'm going to suggest two things now
15:40:12 <liam> 1. we can ask - and I thin PF will follow through - setting up time at TPAC to discuss moving this forward
15:40:23 <liam> we know this work will continue & we have a model document
15:40:35 <liam> 2. I will take on an action to strip the mower down
15:40:43 <liam> to make a power document
15:41:26 <liam> Took a while to get the document into its current status; other groups have said it was [useful]
15:41:37 <janina> q?
15:41:56 <liam> ShaneM: I'm active in web payments and would like to work on it
15:42:12 <liam> JF: I'm working at finding someone
15:42:23 <janina> s/someone/someone from Dq/
15:42:57 <JF> s/Dq/Deque
15:43:03 <liam> JS: we need Charles here for Access Key etc
15:43:48 <liam> JF: Charles, LJWatson and I did have a conversation with Dominic in July
15:44:05 <liam> and my understanding was that Dominic was going to implement it
15:44:17 <liam> JF: a commitment to do something, but don't know the statu
15:44:22 <liam> s/statu/status
15:45:21 <LJWatson> LW: Chaals was going to write up a provisional spec text, and Dominic was going to implement it in Chrome behind the flag.
15:46:18 <liam> LJWatson: no real progress, but this week we're starting quiet conversation with different browser companies
15:46:31 <liam> to get a sense of their impressions before going more broadly public
15:46:38 <liam> JS: any TPAC-related thoughts?
15:47:05 <liam> LJWatson: have not yet considered it; Charles, Steve and I will be there, don't know about Brian yet
15:47:49 <liam> LJWatson: nothing to report, it's in limbo
15:48:03 <liam> Topic: open actions
15:49:16 <liam> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:52:11 <plh> plh has joined #html-a11y
15:52:18 <liam> cynthia - action 318 - Work with léonie on describing the extensions requested to web driver, and the motivation…
15:52:39 <liam> [agree coordination]
15:53:56 <liam> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/330 JF to get the matrix to Shane
15:54:07 <liam> JS: I haven't done my part yet
15:54:14 <liam> but we need to close this soon
15:54:19 <plh> present+ plh
15:54:37 <liam> at some point if that matrix isn't updated it comes out of the draft
15:54:51 <liam> ShaneM: if it's more than 10 minutes you're doing it wrong
15:55:01 <liam> JF: there's more than 10 minutes, but i'll put it on my todo list
15:56:03 <liam> close action-331
15:56:03 <trackbot> Closed action-331.
15:56:19 <liam> [no more actions to discuss in this meeting]
15:56:30 <liam> [plh arrived]
15:56:42 <liam> Back to transcript
15:57:16 <liam> plh: my opinion is in order to increase the chances you'll get implementors' eyes on the doc publish as a WG Note
15:57:28 <liam> it can show up on WG home page, twitter, etc
15:57:33 <liam> as an ED it's just another doc on github
15:57:33 <janina> q?
15:58:02 <liam> JF: what I'm hearing is publish it as a note
15:58:29 <liam> let's do that for now with clear understanding that it's a parking function until chartering & WGs settle down and we'll pick it up again in November
15:58:38 <liam> plh: you can put that in the Status of the doc too
15:58:43 <liam> JS: +1
15:59:10 <liam> Say it's our intent to go towards Rec but is a note temporarily, expecit it to be picked up by... etc
15:59:20 <liam> plh: not publishing would be a missed opportunity
15:59:30 <liam> JS: we should update the status so we have a static doc ready for a cfc
15:59:39 <liam> then I can come up with a cfc
16:00:06 <plh> http://chaals.github.io/html-transcript/html-transcript-src.html
16:00:54 <liam> decsion: issue cfc to publish that as a note; Liam will prepare the document
16:00:58 <liam> [adjourned]
16:01:08 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, JF, Liam, LJWatson, Plh, Judy, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ShaneM
16:01:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/10-html-a11y-minutes.html liam
16:02:42 <LJWatson> present- PLH
16:02:51 <LJWatson> regrets: Chaals
16:02:58 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/10-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:03:45 <LJWatson> present- Plh
16:04:00 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:04:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/10-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
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