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12:55:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-dpub-aria-irc
12:58:51 <tzviya> zakim, this will be DPUB-ARIA
12:58:51 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, tzviya
12:59:46 <tzviya> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpub-aria/2015Sep/0000.html
13:01:41 <janina> present+ janina
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13:02:39 <tzviya> present+ Tzviya
13:02:43 <mgylling> Agenda:
13:02:43 <mgylling> * DPUB roles in ARIA Core - yes or no, prefix or no
13:02:44 <mgylling> * Link roles: in ARIA or @rel registry?
13:02:45 <mgylling> * update on timeline for additional dpub roles to be added to draft
13:02:46 <mgylling> * update on DPUB AAM progress
13:02:53 <mgylling> Present+ Markus
13:03:30 <tzviya> present+ Ivan
13:03:37 <mgylling> scribenick: mgylling
13:03:57 <tzviya> zakim, this will be DPUB ARIA
13:03:57 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, tzviya
13:05:32 <ShaneM_> ShaneM_ has joined #dpub-aria
13:06:28 <ivan_> zakim, this is dpub-aria https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=mf2cde14c5140de2a3a9a333212ab1cc9 code 641 181 126
13:06:28 <Zakim> got it, ivan_
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13:06:33 <ivan_> zakim, code?
13:06:33 <Zakim> I have been told this is dpub-aria https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=mf2cde14c5140de2a3a9a333212ab1cc9 code 641 181 126
13:06:42 <mgylling> topic: DPUB roles in ARIA Core
13:07:48 <tzviya> chair: markus
13:08:16 <tzviya> chair: tzviya
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13:08:47 <mgylling> tzviya: whether we should shift some of the DPUB roles into aria core, and whether to use the prefix
13:11:03 <tzviya> markus: this is a double-edged sword. adding to core would increase uptake, but splitting the vocab could lead to confusion
13:11:21 <mgylling> markus: in the worst case, we would have properties in DPUB, ARIA, and @rel registry
13:11:51 <mgylling> tzviya: think this will come again up as other modules are added
13:12:40 <mgylling> … on the one hand you could say that people are already looking at ARIA for document structure, if we have glossary as part of core, and glossary-reference as part of DPUB, its kind of dissonant
13:13:26 <mgylling> ivan: janina, markus raised the issue that if a value goes into core, if it namespaceless then it has more chances to be understood by AT… is that really the case? Could AT not accept properties that keep dpub-?
13:14:11 <mgylling> janina: it could work both ways, AT is already picking up ARIA roles, OTOH DPUB space is also an attractive space, seems a rather easy thing to add
13:15:10 <mgylling> ivan: is it possible to say that we have the DPUB hyphenspace module, and somehow in the core ARIA spec there is a reference to DPUB properties, that we consider part of core, but defined in DPUB spec?
13:15:26 <mgylling> janina: probably the easiest one to move through to TR
13:15:54 <mgylling> ivan: the authors of an ebook would just know dpub- and nothing else, from that perspective we are fine
13:16:41 <mgylling> rich: which ones are we talking about?
13:17:06 <mgylling> matt: chapter and one or two others
13:17:32 <mgylling> ivan: we have the notion of chapter, aria value is dpub-chapter once and for all, but its still part of the core, and defined normatively in dpub spec
13:18:19 <tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/51 identifies the roles that Core is interested in harvesting
13:18:52 <mgylling> s/namespaceless/hyphenspaceless/
13:19:17 <mgylling> ivan: pushing all dpub roles in the first seems to be too much
13:19:46 <mgylling> janina: rich is that true?
13:19:52 <mgylling> rich: we need to give them runway
13:20:31 <mgylling> … MS said we want to be able to support the ARIA spec, later we can support the publishing module
13:21:45 <mgylling> rich: getting some roles into core wouldnt buy you much
13:22:59 <mgylling> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: migrate nothing to ARIA core at this point
13:23:48 <mgylling> janina: agrees, keep it simple
13:25:18 <mgylling> matt: isnt in education issue? splitting would make life harder for publishers, we should make people aware that aria is expanding using modules
13:25:35 <mgylling> RESOLVED: migrate nothing to ARIA core at this point
13:25:50 <mgylling> topic: link roles
13:26:23 <mgylling> matt: noteref, glossref, biblioref, etc
13:27:39 <mgylling> markus: has link roles been discussed in ARIA before?
13:27:53 <mgylling> rich: no, but discussions is ongoing in cognitive @@@
13:28:20 <mgylling> s/cognitive/the cognitive taskforce/
13:28:45 <tzviya> http://microformats.org/wiki/rel
13:30:04 <mgylling> tzviya: if there was rel=description, then people would be a lot more comfortable using rel for descriptions
13:31:30 <mgylling> janina: is this only for HTML or also for SVG?
13:31:46 <mgylling> … think that would be the basis for supporting ARIA doing the same thing that rel does
13:32:00 <mgylling> … otherwise we have to answer why not use rel
13:33:19 <mgylling> rich: SVG does not have rel
13:33:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/attindex.html
13:34:00 <mgylling> janina: we know we want to do this to SVG, and maybe other markup languages as well, there’s the argument for putting this into ARIA
13:34:37 <mgylling> rich: I dont think we’ll get this in SVG2
13:36:05 <mgylling> ivan: the only additional problem is that rel is also used in other settings in RDFa
13:36:15 <mgylling> markus: how does that impact us?
13:36:33 <mgylling> ivan: there may be default namespaceless properties, so there may be a low probability of clashes
13:38:09 <mgylling> RESOLVED: keep link roles in aria draft for now, await further input from the community
13:38:34 <mgylling> rich: AT doesnt currently make use of @rel
13:38:52 <mgylling> topic: additional dpub roles
13:39:50 <mgylling> markus: for me, tzviya matt and sanders to work on
13:40:23 <mgylling> tzviya: once we decide which roles to add it wont take long, but we need time to discuss things
13:45:32 <tzviya> tzviya: we'll aim to finish additional DPUB roles by latest mid-Oct
13:45:50 <tzviya> topic: update on DPUB AAM
13:46:21 <tzviya> rich: working on ARIA 1.1 and SVG, DPUB AAM is on the list
13:47:27 <tzviya> no meeting next week (10 Septemeber)
13:48:18 <tzviya> review period oF FPWD is coming to a close, we will close out the issues, all of which predate publication
13:48:24 <tzviya> rrsagent, make logs public
13:48:28 <tzviya> rrsagent, make minutes
13:48:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-dpub-aria-minutes.html tzviya
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