13:45:18 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:45:18 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-dap-irc 13:45:20 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:45:20 Zakim has joined #dap 13:45:22 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:45:22 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 13:45:23 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 13:45:23 Date: 03 September 2015 13:45:54 fjh has changed the topic to: agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2015Aug/0021.html call info in agenda 13:46:01 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2015Aug/0021.html 13:46:18 Chair: Frederick_Hirsch 13:46:21 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 13:46:37 Topic: Welcome, scribe selection, agenda review, announcements 14:00:26 Dapeng_Liu has joined #dap 14:00:42 May I ask what is the meeting password? 14:02:22 thanks 14:02:30 anssik has joined #dap 14:02:42 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:05:29 Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux 14:05:40 Present+ Dapend_Liu 14:05:51 s/Dapend/Dapeng/ 14:06:14 Present+ Giri_Mandyam 14:06:35 This is me 14:06:48 dialed in via phone 14:07:25 Present+ Andrey_Logvinov 14:07:36 s/This is me// 14:07:43 s/dialed in via phone// 14:07:51 ScribeNick: fjh 14:08:36 the /TR style sheet response sent: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2015Jul/0021.html 14:08:44 fjh: I submitted the style sheet response 14:08:51 TPAC reminder (no DAP F2F): http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/ 14:09:12 fjh: who will be leading breakout session at TPA 14:09:17 s/TPA/TPAC/ 14:09:30 anssik: I will be there, expect Tobie as well, Giri you might wish to join 14:09:37 Present+ tobie 14:09:55 giri: put out call for future information on device orientation, got no response 14:10:00 q+ 14:10:06 giri: Rich left Opera 14:10:11 giri: should close issue 14:10:36 anssik: will device orientation move 14:10:53 giri: first want LC, but Apple still not compiant so an issue 14:10:58 s/compiant/compliant/ 14:11:21 giri: need LC first 14:12:09 q+ 14:12:30 Present- tobie 14:12:50 Present+ Tobie_Langel 14:13:39 giri: this does not stop revising device orientation under the generic sensor API 14:13:53 ack tobie 14:14:24 tobie: have looked over the last two weeks looking at device orientation to get sense for use cases for generic sensor API 14:14:48 ack dom 14:15:00 mats has joined #dap 14:15:22 +1 14:15:30 dom: geolocation WG had no objection to DAP taking over device orientation so we should add to charter 14:15:31 +1 14:15:32 +1 14:15:34 s/+1// 14:15:36 +1 14:15:40 q? 14:16:01 ack fjh 14:16:51 Welcome to new members: Dapeng Liu, Rong Zhang (Alibaba), Rijubrata Bhaumik (Intel), Alexandra Mikityuk (Deutsche Telekom), Josh Soref (IE) 14:16:51 Viacom has also joined (no participant) 14:16:52 participants list: http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=43696&public=1&order=org 14:17:15 dapeng: from Alibaba group, working in standards group 14:17:22 ... interested in all of the work of this group 14:18:00 fjh: do you plan to contribute to implementation and testing 14:18:12 dapeng: no plans yet, but would like to help with testin 14:18:47 anssi: Rijubrata contributing to Chromium, working on browser code, will be implementing some of the sensor APIs 14:19:59 fjh: Proximity and Ambient Light Event API WDs published, with warnng that moving toward generic sensor API 14:20:00 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2015Sep/0002.html 14:20:13 s/warnng/warning/ 14:20:19 Topic: Minutes approval 14:20:29 Approve minutes from 25 June 2015 14:20:29 proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 25 June 2015 are approved, https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2015Jun/att-0175/minutes-2015-06-25.html 14:20:36 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 25 June 2015 are approved, https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2015Jun/att-0175/minutes-2015-06-25.html 14:20:45 Topic: Charter revision 14:20:51 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2015Jun/0149.html 14:21:11 created diff http://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2011%2F07%2FDeviceAPICharter&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io%2Fdap-charter%2FDeviceAPICharter.html 14:21:17 http://w3c.github.io/dap-charter/DeviceAPICharter.html 14:22:10 https://github.com/w3c/dap-charter/issues 14:22:15 There is also a pull request regarding licensing 14:22:16 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2015Jul/0003.html 14:22:42 dom: if there are new work items to add, now is a good time to do so 14:22:56 ... would like to finailize the charter by the end of this month 14:23:29 ... please look at the charter, look at the open issues, consider new items that should be added to the charter 14:23:51 Topic: Battery 14:24:05 Draft updated for privacy considerations: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2015Aug/0011.html 14:24:20 fjh: thanks Anssi for updating draft for privacy consideration 14:24:31 Mozilla update, need for test harness update? 14:24:32 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2015Aug/0018.html 14:24:49 fjh: test harness does not handle promises 14:25:23 anssi: yes idl harness needs to be updated, sent mail, awaiting response, could work around it 14:25:45 fjh: follow up with James next week? 14:25:54 anssi: they need to figure it out 14:26:18 Topic: Generic Sensor Use Cases 14:26:35 ScribeNick: dom 14:26:43 http://w3c.github.io/sensors/usecases.html 14:27:06 tobie: basically, we came to the conclusion a couple of weeks ago that it was hard to get to consensus on the exact API design 14:27:14 ... because they were hard to express in WebIDL 14:27:40 ... I realized that having code examples based on use cases would help 14:27:57 ... the idea of the use cases doc is to document real-world applications related to sensor work 14:28:12 ... and also look at building polyfills for existing APIs 14:28:32 q+ 14:28:32 ... I've worked on two such apps based on GH discussions 14:28:47 http://w3c.github.io/sensors/examples/realtime-positioning/index.html 14:29:04 ... the first one is real time positioning on a map using geolocation 14:29:21 ... it's not completely finished but it already brought me to interesting conclusions on sensor frequency 14:29:33 ... one of the keys is to try to minimize the battery consumption 14:29:43 ... so you need some indication on how often the sensor should be probed 14:30:00 giri: we have had agreement for deviceorientation 14:30:05 ... built on sensor api 14:30:13 s/deviceorientation/device orientation 14:30:14 ... I don't think there is such an agreement for geolocation 14:30:24 ... not sure my company would agree to it 14:30:37 ... we can use it as a use case, but I don't want us to commit to move geo to this model 14:30:42 tobie: good point 14:30:55 anssi: there can always be a polyfill in any case 14:31:01 ... and it informs our design 14:31:19 fjh: right; but we should make clear that we're not saying geo will move to that model 14:31:41 [an issue will be raised in github to track this] 14:32:16 tobie: there has been a bunch of issues raised on generic sensors based on the experience with the geolocation API 14:32:27 ... that's why I started looking at it in more details 14:32:34 ... example of issues include accessing cached data 14:32:59 http://w3c.github.io/sensors/examples/cached-data/index.html 14:33:11 ... the 2nd example is in fact based on this cached data aspect 14:33:24 ... combined with looking at the battery level 14:33:26 fjh: suggest adding note that says that geolocation is included as use case to better understand generic model but does not imply that standard work will move the Geolocation WG or to imply that the standard will be changed at this time. 14:33:50 fjh: so this document is not just text, it also has working code 14:34:05 q? 14:34:07 ack fjh 14:34:10 tobie: indeed; there are also separate links to each app 14:34:26 ... I'm not convinced yet this is the best format for the end document, but it is good way to present this right now 14:34:49 ... I then spent a lot of time on devising an app for head tracking based on device orientation api 14:35:00 ... it proved to be very complicated 14:35:18 ... I found an interesting paper from occulus that might help; will give another go at it next week 14:35:40 ... head tracking is one of the most cross-sensors type of app you can do in an app right now 14:35:42 side comment - not sure I like privacy invasive technologies, head tracking might be one of those 14:35:48 ... also spent time on device orientation 14:36:05 ... I'm looking for a couple of extra use cases that touch on other aspects beyond these 14:36:20 ... I'm hoping to have something ready to be published as a FPWD for our next call 14:36:39 fjh: some of our existing work on proximity or ambient light could be added 14:37:04 tobie: right; I'm not as familiar with these but I can take a look 14:39:01 dom: so FPWD 2 weeks from now — do you think we would publish it with or without the live apps? 14:39:17 tobie: I don't know; I think it's cool to have them in, but have no strong opinions 14:39:47 fjh: if we have them in, there might be issues with the publication process 14:40:03 dom: I'll need to look ahead of time to see if we want them in or not 14:40:19 tobie: another approach would be to have screenshots instead of live apps 14:40:20 tobie: could replace with screen shots if needed, then link to demo apps on github 14:40:26 anssi: yes, with links to the demo apps 14:40:41 ... also, we should add more code snippets to contrast the approaches 14:41:01 tobie: yes, that's the goal: more code, explanations 14:41:14 ... I'm happy to replace live apps with screenshots and links 14:41:37 fjh: are we talking about being ready for FPWD two weeks from now? 14:41:40 tobie: yes 14:41:56 anssi: sounds like a plan! 14:42:02 [amazing agreement all over] 14:42:18 Topic: Generic Sensor API 14:42:19 Topic: Generic Sensor API update 14:42:31 tobie: my goal is to use the use cases to come to agreement as to what works and what doesn't 14:42:39 ... that's the main issue right now to move forward 14:42:58 ... the output of the use cases work will be direct input to the generic sensor api work 14:43:10 ... my current hope is to get to FPWD-ready for the API 4 weeks from now 14:43:21 ... that might be optimistic, but I'll use that as a target 14:43:28 Topic: Wake lock API 14:43:34 status - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2015Jul/att-0000/00-part 14:43:34 (from https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2015Jul/0000.html) 14:43:35 fjh: not aware of news on that one 14:43:49 Andrey: we updated the spec to move the wake lock request attribute from document to the Screen interface 14:44:02 ... the implementation of the wake lock api has landed in Blink 14:44:11 ... and the Chromium part is waiting for review 14:44:16 fjh: what should be our next steps? 14:44:26 andrey: we should update the WD to reflect the editors draft 14:45:21 fjh: can we use the simplified publication process? 14:45:48 dom: yes; we could even do that automatically 14:45:52 andrey: that'd be good 14:45:57 action: dom to update current WD of Wake Lock and set it up so WD is updated automatically when ED updated 14:45:57 Created ACTION-738 - Update current wd of wake lock and set it up so wd is updated automatically when ed updated [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2015-09-10]. 14:46:03 dom: ok, I'll look into both publishing an update and set up the automation 14:47:04 fjh: how are we notified about updates to WD 14:47:21 dom: I'll look into it 14:47:36 dom: home page news should be updated first time 14:48:24 Topic: Other Specs 14:48:26 no news 14:48:28 Topic: Actions 14:48:32 ACTION-723: Zhiqiang Zhang to Add test for user denial of captured file leading to no capture 14:48:32 Notes added to ACTION-723 Add test for user denial of captured file leading to no capture. 14:48:32 ACTION-727: Anssi Kostiainen to Contact tim and boris re joining dap 14:48:32 Notes added to ACTION-727 Contact tim and boris re joining dap. 14:48:34 ACTION-729: Zhiqiang Zhang to Update test case to clarify manual testing and to run tests and update results related to action-723 14:48:34 Notes added to ACTION-729 Update test case to clarify manual testing and to run tests and update results related to action-723. 14:48:35 ACTION-730: Zhiqiang Zhang to Update the battery test suite to match latest battery spec (coordinating with marcos) 14:48:35 Notes added to ACTION-730 Update the battery test suite to match latest battery spec (coordinating with marcos). 14:48:37 ACTION-731: Dominique Hazael-Massieux to Review html media capture tests 14:48:37 Notes added to ACTION-731 Review html media capture tests. 14:48:38 ACTION-732: Anssi Kostiainen to Review html media capture tests 14:48:38 Notes added to ACTION-732 Review html media capture tests. 14:48:40 ACTION-733: Giridhar Mandyam to Discuss generic sensor api and use of eventtarget in geolocation wg to summarize issues to dap 14:48:40 Notes added to ACTION-733 Discuss generic sensor api and use of eventtarget in geolocation wg to summarize issues to dap. 14:48:41 ACTION-734: Anssi Kostiainen to Contact mozilla and microsoft re interest in implementing html media capture vs shelving 14:48:41 Notes added to ACTION-734 Contact mozilla and microsoft re interest in implementing html media capture vs shelving. 14:48:42 ACTION-735: Anssi Kostiainen to Create editor drafts for ambient light and proximity indicating new approach toward generic sensor api, also drafts for publication to tr space 14:48:42 Notes added to ACTION-735 Create editor drafts for ambient light and proximity indicating new approach toward generic sensor api, also drafts for publication to tr space. 14:48:43 ACTION-736: Frederick Hirsch to Send cfc for wd publication for ambient light and proximity once drafts available 14:48:43 Notes added to ACTION-736 Send cfc for wd publication for ambient light and proximity once drafts available. 14:48:44 completed 14:49:47 ACTION-735? 14:49:47 ACTION-735 -- Anssi Kostiainen to Create editor drafts for ambient light and proximity indicating new approach toward generic sensor api, also drafts for publication to tr space -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN 14:49:47 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/735 14:49:52 close ACTION-735 14:49:52 Closed ACTION-735. 14:50:22 ACTION-736? 14:50:22 ACTION-736 -- Frederick Hirsch to Send cfc for wd publication for ambient light and proximity once drafts available -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN 14:50:22 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/736 14:50:29 close ACTION-736 14:50:29 Closed ACTION-736. 14:50:35 Topic: Adjourn 14:50:52 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:50:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-dap-minutes.html fjh 14:51:58 Thanks Tobie for preparing the generic sensor API use cases draft and presenting it, Anssi for the publication and battery work. Thanks Dom for scribing, thanks everyone! good call. 14:52:36 s/Topic: Generic Sensor API$// 14:52:43 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:52:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-dap-minutes.html fjh 14:55:04 Plan is to have updated Generic Sensor API Use Cases document ready before call in next two weeks, to discuss and then publish FPWD 14:55:26 Plan is also to publish updated WD of Wake Lock API and to arrange automatic WD updates when ED updated. 14:55:34 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:55:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-dap-minutes.html fjh 16:19:37 fjh has joined #dap 17:03:13 Zakim has left #dap