16:26:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
16:26:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-aria-irc
16:26:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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16:26:47 <MichaelC> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0099.html
16:26:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
16:26:48 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
16:26:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
16:26:49 <trackbot> Date: 03 September 2015
16:26:53 <MichaelC> chair: Michael_Cooper
16:26:58 <MichaelC> regrets: Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:30:17 <fesch> fesch has joined #aria
16:31:31 <clown> clown has joined #aria
16:31:56 <clown> clown has changed the topic to: WebEx Access Code 641 707 405
16:33:12 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
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16:33:16 <MichaelC> MichaelC has changed the topic to: WebEx https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m5d67b552441a72bd1f52d696ad273d2e code 640 582 571
16:33:20 <clown> clown has changed the topic to: WebEx Access Code 640 582 571
16:33:31 <fesch> present+ fesch
16:33:58 <clown> clown has changed the topic to: WebEx https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m5d67b552441a72bd1f52d696ad273d2e code 640 582 571
16:34:10 <janina> present+ janina
16:35:00 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
16:35:12 <MichaelC> present+ MichaelC, Cynthia_Shelly, Fred_Esch, Jemma_Ku, Joanmarie_Diggs
16:38:06 <MichaelC> present+ Stefan
16:39:09 <Stefan> Stefan has joined #aria
16:39:14 <Stefan> Scribe: Stefan
16:39:22 <MichaelC> topic: Charter Status
16:39:28 <Stefan> MC: first status charter status
16:39:38 <Stefan> Janina: no specific news
16:40:19 <Stefan> Janijna: we have authority to publish
16:40:53 <Stefan> Janina: we will habe quite abit of agenda a TPAC
16:41:44 <fesch> s/habe/have/
16:42:57 <Stefan> Janina: new charter not yet approved
16:43:31 <Stefan> MC: have care that after approval we will have to rejoin groups
16:43:54 <Stefan> MC: formal news mail will be send around
16:44:02 <Stefan> MC: when this happens
16:44:09 <MichaelC> topic: Actions 1675, 1676, 1677 Clean up class hieriarchy
16:44:10 <Stefan> Topic: Actions 1675, 1676, 1677 Clean up class hieriarchy - Joanie
16:44:29 <joanie> http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#item08
16:44:33 <Stefan> Joanie: will paste alink
16:44:55 <Stefan> Joanie: last weeks minutes - there was red resolution
16:45:07 <clown> "rs: agree we need to postpone this to interaction discussion"
16:45:12 <Stefan> Joanie: rich do we have inheritance issue? .. yes
16:45:42 <Stefan> Joanie: consensus was .. lets wait until joanie is back
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16:46:17 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
16:46:36 <Stefan> Joanie: are associated with other issue
16:47:05 <Stefan> Joanie: bottom line I think we decided we are not going to address it for now
16:47:38 <Stefan> MC: class hierarchy actions stand out of the main line work .. maybe we allow this to wait and ignore it for the moment
16:48:08 <Stefan> Joanie: if consensus is dont do now then good
16:48:40 <Stefan> Cynthia: maybe issue around inheritance
16:48:59 <Stefan> MC: not sure when it is good moment to do it
16:49:18 <Stefan> MC: will take it on my list
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16:50:09 <MichaelC> present+ Bryan
16:50:31 <MichaelC> present+ Jon_Gunderson
16:50:33 <Stefan> Topic: Actions 1710, 1711, 1712: aria-label overriding listitem and treeitem content as containers (discuss removal of name required)
16:51:06 <Stefan> •	https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/736  •	https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1710    (Rich)  •	https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1711    (Joseph)  •	https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1712   (Joanie)
16:52:14 <Stefan> joseph: rich said FS is fine with it, joanie too others too (Mozilla)
16:52:38 <Stefan> MC: rich created spinoff issue for link
16:53:24 <Stefan> joseph: we could close 1710 and 1711
16:53:47 <Stefan> MC: we should record resolution
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16:54:27 <MichaelC> present+ Michiel_Bijl
16:56:23 <clown> proposal  Remove "Accssible name required" and "name from contents" from characteristics table for role listitem
16:56:30 <bgaraventa1979> +1
16:56:38 <joanie> +1000
16:56:38 <fesch> +1
16:56:42 <Stefan> +1
16:56:47 <MichielBijl> s/Accssible/Accessible
16:56:50 <jongund> +1
16:57:05 <JemmaKu> +1
16:57:32 <Stefan> RESOLUTION: Remove "Accssible name required" and "name from contents" from characteristics table for role listitem
16:57:45 <MichielBijl> s/Accssible/Accessible
16:57:46 <MichaelC> issue-736: Resolution in 3 Sept 2015 ARIA meeting to accept the change; leaving issue open pending completion of ACTION-1712 to ask if objections from Apple
16:57:46 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-736 aria-label overriding listitem and treeitem content when need to know content is valuable.
16:58:11 <MichaelC> action-1712: this action is now to check for objection to resolution from 3 Sep 2015
16:58:11 <trackbot> Notes added to action-1712 Get with apple to discuss name from content removal from listitems and no longer requiring names on lists.
16:58:18 <MichaelC> close action-1710
16:58:19 <trackbot> Closed action-1710.
16:58:23 <MichaelC> close action-1712
16:58:23 <trackbot> Closed action-1712.
16:58:29 <MichaelC> close action-1711
16:58:30 <trackbot> Closed action-1711.
16:58:38 <MichaelC> reopen action-1712
16:58:38 <trackbot> Re-opened action-1712.
16:59:10 <MichaelC> action: joanie to Remove "Accessible name required" and "name from contents" from characteristics table for role listitem
16:59:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1721 - Remove "accessible name required" and "name from contents" from characteristics table for role listitem [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-09-10].
16:59:22 <MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-1721 with issue-736
16:59:22 <trackbot> action-1721 (Remove "accessible name required" and "name from contents" from characteristics table for role listitem) associated with issue-736.
16:59:30 <MichaelC> issue-1721: do after completion of action-1712
16:59:30 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-1721 .
16:59:55 <clown> issue-633
16:59:55 <trackbot> issue-633 -- listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items -- open
16:59:55 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633
16:59:56 <Stefan> topic: Issue 633: listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items (Matt King)
17:02:31 <Stefan> Stefan: there is room for improvement in wording of spec
17:03:53 <clown> <div role=listview itemrole="link" aria-multiselectable="false">
17:03:53 <clown> <A aria-posinset="1" ..../>
17:03:53 <clown> <A aria-posinset="2" aria-active="true" ... />
17:03:53 <clown> <a aria-posinset="3" ... />
17:03:54 <clown> </div>
17:05:51 <Stefan> Jon: main example is that people create menus and menu items are links
17:06:31 <Stefan> Brian: no simple way to fix it
17:07:13 <Stefan> MC: lot of complicated issues .. we should make som list discussion happen
17:07:52 <janina> We were expecting Matt to start rejoining our Thursday calls. I rather even expected him today. Maybe next Thursday!
17:08:26 <Stefan> Stefan: I can start thread on mailing list with issue/action in subject
17:08:43 <Stefan> Stefan: and hopefully it will come to live
17:08:51 <MichaelC> present+ Matt_King
17:08:58 <janina> Yeah! Welcome back, Matt!
17:10:30 <Stefan> Matt: we need clear definition of problem first
17:10:53 <Stefan> Matt: this is missing in issue/actio n
17:11:23 <Stefan> Topic: . Action 1703: Discuss having a Figure role
17:11:30 <clown> action-1703
17:11:30 <trackbot> action-1703 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Ask the aria task force about the need for a special figure role that would be brought up in a list of figures. also, discuss whether this would be a suitable default role for html figure. -- due 2015-08-21 -- CLOSED
17:11:31 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1703
17:12:25 <joanie> http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#item03
17:12:35 <Stefan> Fred: we want to use figure inside of svg
17:12:54 <Stefan> MC: figure is landmark role?
17:12:59 <Stefan> Fred: not particulary
17:13:13 <Stefan> Fred: better have list of figures separately
17:13:35 <Stefan> MC: will aria-labelledby work?
17:13:50 <Stefan> Fred: yes
17:14:21 <Stefan> MC: svg will use regular aria labelling mechanisms
17:14:33 <Stefan> Fred: in svg we have own mapping spec
17:14:56 <Stefan> MC: fig differ from img role?
17:15:10 <Stefan> Fred: you cannot explore img
17:15:27 <Stefan> Fred: figure can have interactive things
17:15:58 <Stefan> Fred: will all go into SVF stuff
17:16:07 <Stefan> Stefan: SVG
17:16:32 <Stefan> Matt: do you think figure is widget, fred?
17:16:40 <Stefan> Fred: we are going beyond that
17:16:46 <JemmaKu> s/SVF/SVG
17:16:53 <clown> q+ to point out that role="img" has "children are presentational".
17:17:11 <Stefan> Fred: mult. modes of nav, assistive tech acc. task force will do that
17:19:17 <Stefan> Janina: maybe not same correspondance to widget
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17:19:47 <Stefan> MC: widgets in ARIA spec have concept that they are interactive
17:20:04 <Stefan> +1
17:20:12 <Stefan> +q
17:21:40 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
17:21:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-aria-minutes.html jamesn
17:22:10 <jamesn> present+ JamesNurthen
17:22:49 <Stefan> MC: img can contain more that images accoerding to the ARIA spec
17:23:49 <Stefan> MC: do we want figure role?
17:24:34 <Stefan> Stefan: I think this has been already decided in last meeting
17:24:54 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#img
17:26:03 <MichaelC> action-1708?
17:26:03 <trackbot> action-1708 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Create proposed text for a new figure role to joanie to put in a brancth for review -- due 2015-09-03 -- OPEN
17:26:03 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1708
17:26:37 <MichaelC> action-1709?
17:26:37 <trackbot> action-1709 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Get with steve faulkner to discuss the html figure element mapping to role figure -- due 2015-09-03 -- OPEN
17:26:37 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1709
17:27:18 <MichaelC> action-1708: see discussion in 3 Sep 2015 minutes for issues around inheritance, content model, labeling, focus management
17:27:18 <trackbot> Notes added to action-1708 Create proposed text for a new figure role to joanie to put in a brancth for review.
17:27:22 <Stefan> Fred: user agent should handle keyboard navigation
17:28:08 <Stefan> Fred: in SVG mappings are already done
17:28:44 <Stefan> MC: Rich should make concrete proposal based on last week's discussion
17:29:14 <Stefan> Matt: aria figure element is 1:1 mapping with HTML figure lelement?
17:29:26 <Stefan> MC: mapping could be broad enough
17:29:46 <joanie> q+
17:29:52 <Stefan> -q
17:29:56 <clown> zakim, ack me
17:29:56 <Zakim> clown, you wanted to point out that role="img" has "children are presentational".
17:29:58 <Zakim> I see joanie on the speaker queue
17:30:29 <joanie> http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#item03
17:31:13 <Stefan> Joanmarie: it is widgety I'm hearing today
17:31:30 <Stefan> Joanmarie: we are not on same page that worries me
17:33:46 <Stefan> Joanmarie: is the SVG a container of whatever?
17:34:12 <Stefan> Fred: its a container and tab stops inside will have semantic importance+
17:34:25 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/html-aam/html-aam.html#el-map
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17:35:28 <Stefan> Fred: if SVG isnt explorable we will give role img
17:36:16 <Stefan> Stefan: if it is explorable we would need role figure since figure element in HTML is also potentially explorable and may contain active content
17:36:56 <Stefan> MC: HTML figure can be interactive but doesn't have to be
17:37:08 <clown> w3c.github.io/aria/html-aam/html-aam.html#el-figure
17:37:14 <Stefan> MC: we can classify it as interactive nevertheless
17:37:15 <clown> mapped as "group"
17:38:27 <MichaelC> q+
17:38:33 <joanie> ack j
17:39:43 <MichaelC> ack me
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17:40:13 <Stefan> MC: classification is not big concern, lets do Rich drat his proposal and then review it
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17:40:56 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0096.html
17:42:03 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0096.html
17:42:09 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0092.html
17:42:42 <MichaelC> action-1715?
17:42:42 <trackbot> action-1715 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Get with Steve Falkner on acceptance of new figure role to be used by HTML -- due 2015-09-06 -- OPEN
17:42:42 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1715
17:43:01 <MichaelC> action-1715: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0092.html
17:43:02 <trackbot> Notes added to action-1715 Get with Steve Falkner on acceptance of new figure role to be used by HTML.
17:44:50 <MichaelC> action-1703?
17:44:50 <trackbot> action-1703 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Ask the aria task force about the need for a special figure role that would be brought up in a list of figures. also, discuss whether this would be a suitable default role for html figure. -- due 2015-08-21 -- CLOSED
17:44:51 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1703
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17:45:42 <MichaelC> present+ James_Nurthen
17:45:46 <MichaelC> q?
17:46:06 <Stefan> Stefan: I can mail Rich on public list to enhance proposal mentioning that content is potentially interactive
17:46:17 <clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/html51/semantics.html#the-figure-element
17:47:08 <Stefan> Stefan: this is important to mention since for inactive content we have role img already
17:48:34 <Stefan> MC: neyt week we are in approval mode
17:48:48 <clown> issue-740?
17:48:48 <trackbot> issue-740 -- Deprecating gridcell for grids and use cell -- open
17:48:48 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/740
17:49:15 <Stefan> Topic: Issue 740: Deprecate gridcell in grids and use
17:49:35 <Stefan> Stefan: cell :)
17:50:04 <Stefan> Matt: do we need to specify both for a while?
17:50:06 <Stefan> MC: no
17:50:17 <jnurthen> I would advise "cell gridcell" though
17:50:19 <jnurthen> :)
17:50:27 <Stefan> +1
17:50:30 <Stefan> ;)
17:51:36 <Stefan> Matt: cell is just a container
17:51:43 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#cell
17:52:04 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#gridcell
17:52:28 <Stefan> MC: cell used in tables, gridcell in grids
17:52:43 <Stefan> Cynthia: I'm fine with the change
17:53:47 <Stefan> Cynthia: I think everything is potentially interactive
17:54:03 <Stefan> Stefan: this is VERY true
17:54:40 <Stefan> Matt: why not create synonyms, cell is the role?
17:57:23 <Stefan> Joseph: we cant make them synonyms
17:57:42 <Stefan> Janina: any reasons why this nees to be done in ARIA 1.1?
17:58:13 <Stefan> joseph: we should log we should do confirmation round with Rich presentr
17:58:21 <Stefan> MC: resolutuon?
17:58:27 <clown> s/we cant make them synonyms/we cant make them synonyms since cell is a superclass of gridcell in the taxonomy/
17:59:18 <Stefan> RESOLUTION: DO NOT DEPRECATE GRID CELL
17:59:21 <MichaelC> issue-740: in discussion in 3 Sep 2015 meeting WG does not think gridcell should be deprecated; but leaving issue open for RS to confirm
17:59:21 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-740 Deprecating gridcell for grids and use cell.
18:00:04 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
18:00:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-aria-minutes.html MichaelC
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