14:57:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-media
14:57:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-irc
14:57:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:05 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-media
14:57:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 63342
14:57:07 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:57:08 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:57:08 <trackbot> Date: 01 September 2015
14:57:26 <paulc> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0050.html
15:02:48 <markw> markw has joined #html-media
15:02:50 <paulc> help present
15:03:07 <paulc> zakim, who is present?
15:03:07 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, paulc.
15:03:19 <paulc> zakim, who is on the meeting?
15:03:19 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, paulc.
15:04:17 <jdsmith> jdsmith has joined #html-media
15:04:18 <joesteele> joesteele has joined #html-media
15:04:25 <markw> present+ markw
15:04:57 <joesteele> present+ joesteele
15:04:58 <paulc> +present paulc
15:05:00 <BobLund> BobLund has joined #html-media
15:05:04 <joesteele> issues with phone this morning?
15:05:06 <markw> +present markw
15:05:13 <paulc> rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:05:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-minutes.html paulc
15:05:19 <jdsmith> jdsmith has joined #html-media
15:05:31 <jdsmith> jdsmith +present
15:05:37 <paulc> paulc +present
15:05:41 <jdsmith> jdsmith present+
15:05:46 <joesteele> can anyone hear me on the phone?
15:05:51 <paulc> no
15:05:54 <joesteele> arg
15:05:59 <markw> The minutes just generated have markw, joesteele
15:06:28 <jdsmith> present+ jdsmith
15:06:30 <paulc> present+ paulc
15:06:38 <paulc> present+ jdsmith
15:06:47 <paulc> rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:06:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-minutes.html paulc
15:07:18 <markw> Seems to have worked
15:07:55 <markw> Also note that the +present lines aren't getting filtered out of the minutes and neither are the <name> (+)present(+) ones
15:08:06 <paulc> oaky
15:08:09 <paulc> okay
15:09:23 <joesteele_> joesteele_ has joined #html-media
15:09:55 <joesteele_> I don’t seem to be able to connect to the phone this morning
15:11:34 <paulc_> paulc_ has joined #html-media
15:11:52 <paulc_> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0050.html
15:12:08 <paulc_> Topic:  Media Task Force F2F meeting, TPAC, Sapporo, Japan, Oct 2015
15:12:35 <markw> Yes, I will be there
15:12:43 <BobLund> I will not be there
15:12:45 <paulc_> paulc: Who will be at the F2F meeting?
15:12:53 <joesteele_> I will be there
15:13:05 <paulc_> jdsmith; Microsoft is building a corporate plan and it will be ready soon.
15:13:20 <paulc_> s/jdsmith;/jdsmith/
15:13:47 <paulc_> paulc:  Important item is the block hotel booking ends in early Oct.
15:14:04 <paulc_> Topic: MSE and EME heartbeat publications
15:14:42 <paulc_> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0038.html
15:15:08 <paulc_> paulc: IT has been 5 months since we updated the /TR page.  And we have never turned on the EME automatic publishing.
15:15:31 <paulc_> paulc: Can one of the Editors of each document please volunteer to take the lead here?
15:17:03 <paulc_> paulc: We also need to figure out who is going to use the supplied instructions to turn on EME automatic publishing.
15:19:00 <paulc_> markw: What is the tradeoff from a manual TR publication and turning on automatic publications.
15:19:33 <joesteele> present+ joesteele_
15:19:34 <paulc_> paulc: For EME if we turn on EME automatic publication then every Editor's draft will show up on the TR page
15:20:10 <paulc_> markw;  I would also like for EME to do any controversial change via a pull request.
15:20:19 <paulc_> s/markw;/markw/
15:21:23 <paulc_> markw:  I want us to agree to undo controversial items and put them in pull requests.
15:21:47 <joesteele> chair: paulc_
15:21:55 <paulc_> jdsmith:  I would prefer to have the TR page and Editors draft more in sync and will take the action to turn on EME automatic publication.
15:22:24 <paulc_> paulc: I will ask Matt to do a manual MSE republication.
15:23:11 <joesteele> scribe: joesteele_
15:23:46 <paulc_> Topic: New EME issues related to secure release
15:23:53 <joesteele> scribe: joesteele
15:23:58 <joesteele> present+ joesteele
15:24:07 <joesteele> paulc: this is issue 79 - 85
15:24:12 <paulc_> ISSUE-79 - ISSUE-85
15:24:27 <joesteele> … David is not here so we can’t make decisions, want to get a feel for what we should be doing
15:24:43 <joesteele> … looks like David has a preference for changing the high-level topic these are related to
15:24:50 <joesteele> … now calling these “tracked” sessions
15:24:57 <markw> q+
15:24:57 <paulc_> ISSUE:79: https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/79
15:25:04 <joesteele> … a little nervous about this usage
15:25:17 <paulc_> See TAG finding: https://w3ctag.github.io/unsanctioned-tracking/
15:25:22 <joesteele> ISSUE-79: https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/79
15:25:22 <trackbot> Notes added to ISSUE-79 .
15:25:50 <joesteele> paulc: TAG has added a note about unsanctioned tracking, this may be setting the wrong tone
15:26:01 <joesteele> … the TAG has made it clear they think tracking is bad
15:26:11 <joesteele> … e.g.
15:26:13 <paulc_> TAG statement from finding: "•Finds that unsanctioned tracking is actively harmful to the Web, because it is not under the control of users and not transparent.
15:26:31 <joesteele> jdmith: think that is now in the media key session type replacing secure release
15:26:40 <joesteele> … we may want to rename
15:26:53 <joesteele> markw: think that we could — this is heopfully unrelated to what TAG is discussing
15:27:00 <joesteele> … don’t think the TAG considerations apply here
15:27:10 <joesteele> … this is tracking what keys were used and when
15:27:24 <joesteele> … there is potential for misunderstanding
15:27:46 <joesteele> paulc: so will one of you open a new issue and make a suggestion of alternatives?
15:27:51 <joesteele> markw: yes I will do this
15:28:09 <joesteele> jdsmith: we talked about “persistent key usage” which is descriptive of what the feature does
15:28:48 <joesteele> paulc: back to the actual topic of the issues raised by David — he did what I suggested here
15:29:11 <joesteele> … are there any in this batch which Mark or Jerry are willing t assign to themselves and provide a solution? any easy ones?
15:29:21 <joesteele> … only one or two have had any response
15:29:31 <joesteele> … Mark you responded to the architectural one
15:29:44 <joesteele> rrsagentm generate minutes
15:29:53 <joesteele> rrsagent: generate minutes
15:29:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:30:03 <joesteele> markw: I don’t have the nubmers, but there are a couple of easy ones
15:30:20 <joesteele> … the request for a more detailed description of how this is used, happy to provide that
15:30:28 <joesteele> … might just go on the wiki
15:30:34 <joesteele> paulc: that is issue 84
15:30:45 <paulc_> David's suggestion for more material is in https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/84
15:31:15 <joesteele> paulc: so you took issue 79?
15:31:27 <joesteele> … none of the others are actually assigned
15:31:36 <joesteele> … let’s make some progress by assigning owners
15:31:51 <joesteele> … any others which we could take action on? not right now
15:32:05 <joesteele> markw: yes - couple I could make a pull request on
15:32:26 <joesteele> jdsmith: couple are clarifications - but. issue 80 is a fundamental change
15:32:48 <joesteele> … to me tracking by key use is natural, David id redcommedning track by session
15:32:50 <paulc_> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/80
15:32:56 <joesteele> markw: that could be wuite complicated
15:33:16 <joesteele> … what you really want is a start time and end time for the keys
15:33:29 <joesteele> … would like to know more about existing (other) implementations
15:33:48 <joesteele> s/wuite/quite/
15:33:58 <joesteele> rrsagent: generate minutes
15:33:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:34:17 <joesteele> markw: issue 81 is an easy one - I will take responsibility
15:34:27 <joesteele> … I will make a proposal
15:34:31 <paulc_> ISSUE;-81 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/81 - Mark will make a pull request
15:34:42 <paulc_> s/ISSUE;-81/ISSUE-81/
15:34:47 <joesteele> ISSUE-81 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/81 - Mark will make a pull request
15:34:57 <joesteele> paulc: let’s summarize
15:35:14 <joesteele> … issue 79 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/79 — assigne dto Mark
15:35:27 <joesteele> … issue 80 — https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/80
15:35:31 <joesteele> … who is taking that?
15:35:38 <joesteele> markw: I will repsond to that
15:35:46 <joesteele> s/repsond/respond/
15:36:02 <joesteele> paulc: https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/81 — you said you will do a pull reuqest
15:36:17 <joesteele> … https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/82 - Mark you and David have had a dialgoue here
15:36:57 <joesteele> markw: this raised an issue, the real reaon for that impleemntation is the robustness rules specified by the DRM
15:37:13 <joesteele> … this is true of many other aspects of the spec (e.g. could implement in JS)
15:37:20 <joesteele> … we don’t talk about those aspects of the spec
15:37:33 <joesteele> … what should we talk about with respect to this type of requirement?
15:37:36 <joesteele> q+
15:37:49 <joesteele> markw: higher level question
15:37:52 <joesteele> q?
15:38:00 <paulc_> Note that TAG review https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/85 is blocked by ISSUE-82 and ISSUE-84
15:38:04 <joesteele> paulc: this is one David chose to block the TAG item on?
15:38:07 <paulc_> ack markw
15:38:10 <markw> markw has joined #html-media
15:38:17 <paulc_> ack joe
15:39:58 <joesteele> joesteele: I think this is a dangerous road to go down. We originally left these type of implicit rules out of the spec for good reason. Many other aspects of the spec would fall under this shadow
15:40:20 <paulc_> ISSUE-83 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/83 is apparently blocked by ISSUE-82
15:40:35 <joesteele> paulc: for now lets skip over this one
15:40:42 <joesteele> issue 84 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/84
15:40:54 <joesteele> paulc: this is one where he is asking for more content
15:41:08 <joesteele> … Mark you said you were willing to generate content if we can figure out where
15:41:21 <joesteele> … since this is an easy one, lets agree to initially put in the wiki
15:41:31 <joesteele> … makes it easier to change going forward
15:41:47 <joesteele> … this would unblock action here
15:42:03 <joesteele> … then we can deal with the question of whether we have enough material
15:42:06 <joesteele> +1
15:42:30 <joesteele> paulc: Mark you have carte-blanch to generate the first draft of material
15:42:43 <joesteele> … make sure you update the bug with a ptr to the wiki asking for feeedback
15:42:54 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/85 is the obvious one
15:43:07 <joesteele> paulc: David is still asking for the TAG review
15:43:20 <joesteele> … have not seen this formally requested by David yet
15:43:32 <joesteele> … I would prefer e get the other ones out of the way first
15:43:52 <joesteele> topic: ISSUE-41, ISSUE-52 and ISSUE-53 - Initialization Data issue cluster
15:44:01 <joesteele> issue-41?
15:44:01 <trackbot> Sorry, but issue-41 does not exist.
15:44:16 <joesteele> paulc: I believe the dependencies have been corrected
15:44:23 <joesteele> … there is a proposal for issue-52
15:45:00 <joesteele> joesteele: I believe there is a response for issue-41 and issue-52
15:45:01 <paulc_> Proposal for ISSUE-52 is at the end of the following email: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0023.html
15:45:24 <paulc_> For ISSUE-41 there was a request for more text which Joe has provided.
15:47:07 <paulc_> Joe's email that David was responding to is https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0019.html
15:47:48 <joesteele> joesteele: I responed in the issue so that we do not lose this information
15:47:51 <paulc_> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/52#issuecomment-136247232
15:48:22 <joesteele> joesteele: I can respond to the email as well so that he can see my response in the issue
15:49:51 <joesteele> topic: ISSUE-77 - Correct object name at the beginning of section 6.3 MediaKeyStatusMap
15:49:57 <paulc_> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/77
15:50:01 <joesteele> jdsmith: that is an easy edit
15:50:17 <joesteele> … this is assigned to me, but not marked as TBI
15:50:42 <joesteele> joesteele: the inability to tag issues is an issue
15:50:56 <joesteele> topic: ISSUE-17 Replace "fire a simple event" with "fire an event" for non-simple Events, Assigned to Jerry
15:51:00 <joesteele> paulc: still pending?
15:51:04 <joesteele> jdsmith: yes
15:51:17 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/17
15:51:32 <joesteele> topic: ISSUE-71 - Be explicit about aborting steps when resolving a promise early
15:51:40 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/71
15:51:50 <joesteele> paulc: Joe said in July he would do something
15:52:02 <joesteele> joesteele: I responded yesterday
15:52:12 <paulc_> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/71#issuecomment-136507577
15:52:16 <joesteele> paulc: this is in David input queue
15:52:26 <joesteele> … anyone else is welcome to comment
15:52:40 <joesteele> topic: Event handler and message cluster
15:52:49 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/19
15:52:55 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/14
15:52:59 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/31
15:53:11 <joesteele> paulc: Jerry think you had feedback you were working on
15:53:18 <joesteele> jdsmith: yes — still pending
15:53:32 <joesteele> rrsagent: generate minutes
15:53:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:53:35 <paulc_> http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html#item05 was previous action on Jerry
15:53:59 <joesteele> topic: next meeting
15:54:01 <paulc_> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0039.html
15:54:22 <joesteele> paulc: proposing EME meets on Sept 22nd due to folks being out
15:55:01 <joesteele> joesteele: reaction to David email on this?
15:55:22 <joesteele> paulc: I feel these meetings do have a positive impact — a forcing function for folks doing the work
15:55:32 <joesteele> … my sentiment is to keep having the meetings
15:56:18 <joesteele> … we will try to be respectfull of folks who cannot attend
15:56:32 <joesteele> … if you disagree please respond to Davids note
15:56:42 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:56:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:56:50 <joesteele> paulc: thanks all!
15:58:08 <joesteele> s/ISSUE-79 - ISSUE-85/this covers issues 79-85/
15:58:25 <joesteele> s/, want to/, just want to/
15:58:50 <joesteele> s/heopfully/hopefully/
15:59:09 <joesteele> s/willing t assign/willing to assign/
15:59:19 <joesteele> s/rrsagentm generate minutes//
15:59:31 <joesteele> s/nubmers/numbers/
15:59:50 <joesteele> s/but. issue/but issue/
16:00:24 <joesteele> s/ implicit rules / implicit robustness rules /
16:00:41 <joesteele> s/lets/let’s/
16:01:06 <joesteele> s/prefer e get/prefer we get/
16:01:25 <joesteele> s/responed/responded/
16:01:39 <joesteele> s/TBI/To Be Implemented/
16:01:55 <joesteele> rrsagent: generate minutes
16:01:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:02:06 <joesteele> s/David email/David’s email/
16:02:14 <joesteele> rrsagent: generate minutes
16:02:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:04:18 <joesteele> s/Mark you and David have had a dialgoue/Mark, you and David have had a dialogue/
16:04:26 <joesteele> : rrsagent: generate minutes
16:04:31 <joesteele> rrsagent: generate minutes
16:04:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:04:38 <joesteele> s/: rrsagent: generate minutes//
16:04:46 <joesteele> rrsagent: generate minutes
16:04:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:05:20 <joesteele> s/lets/let’s/g
16:05:26 <joesteele> rrsagent: generate minutes
16:05:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:05:53 <joesteele> s/+1/joesteele: +1/
16:05:56 <joesteele> rrsagent: generate minutes
16:05:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
18:08:42 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-media
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18:25:33 <jdsmith> test
18:25:36 <jdsmith> test