18:46:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:46:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/01-aapi-irc
18:46:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
18:46:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:46:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
18:46:48 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
18:46:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
18:46:49 <trackbot> Date: 01 September 2015
18:46:58 <clown> agenda+
18:47:05 <clown> agenda: this
18:47:25 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping aria-describedby when element does not exist in a11y tree.
18:47:30 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1309: (Cynthia) UIA and UIA Express mappings for aria-colindex and aria-rowindex.
18:47:36 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1373: (Cynthia) Test case for aria-posinset and aria-setsize when provided on only some elements.
18:47:42 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1527: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for aria-current.
18:47:48 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1528: (Alex, David) IA2 mapping for aria-current.
18:47:57 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1535: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-current.
18:48:01 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1541: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal.
18:48:07 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1547: (Rich) Update test cases for rowgroup within a grid.
18:48:12 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1593: (Cynthia) Gap analysis of AAPI differences for managed states.
18:48:16 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1661: (Cynthia) UIA and UIA Express mappings for aria-roledescription.
18:48:57 <clown> agenda+ (Bryan) Discuss selected vs checked state of radio buttons on Windows (UIA)
18:49:02 <clown> agenda+ Action triage for accessible name calculation (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26)
18:49:09 <clown> agenda+ Action/issue triage (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23)
18:49:15 <clown> agenda+ be done.
18:49:22 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:55:43 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:58:25 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
19:01:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aapi
19:02:52 <clown> agenda?
19:03:13 <joanie> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
19:03:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
19:03:46 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:06:05 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:06:05 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping aria-describedby when element does not exist in a11y tree." taken up [from clown]
19:06:29 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:06:43 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 5
19:06:43 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-1528: (Alex, David) IA2 mapping for aria-current." taken up [from clown]
19:06:49 <clown> action-1528
19:06:49 <trackbot> action-1528 -- Alexander Surkov to Bolter to investigate the proper ia2 mappings for aria-current -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
19:06:49 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1528
19:07:11 <joanie> JS: I had an action from a while back to contact Alex and actually email the IA2 mailing list for mappings for aria-current.
19:07:16 <clown> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1104947
19:07:24 <joanie> JS: There is an bugzilla issue (URL above).
19:07:36 <joanie> JS: Nothing has been done with it since last year.
19:07:53 <joanie> JS: Léonie commented recently that aria-current was now stable.
19:08:19 <joanie> JS: So I emailed the IA2 mailing list.
19:08:40 <joanie> JS: I'd put a link for the message, but I am not sure they showed up on the list.
19:09:02 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCurrent
19:09:16 <joanie> JS: The mappings are at the above URL.
19:11:27 <joanie> JD: I thought for ATK/AT-SPI2 the object attribute was "current"; not "active".
19:11:45 <joanie> JS: But Alex doesn't think STATE_ACTIVE is the proper mapping.
19:13:21 <joanie> JS: Joanie explained that it really is the proper mapping for ATK/AT-SPI, but that state is a boolean. So an attribute is needed to expose the type of currentness/activeness.
19:14:04 <joanie> JS: I could change the IA2 mapping to not use STATE_ACTIVE; but I'm not changing the ATK/AT-SPI2 mapping without more input.
19:15:19 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#event-aria-current
19:15:43 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:16:06 <joanie> JS: There's an associated event, to notify ATs when the current element changed.
19:16:28 <joanie> JD: So if you remove the STATE_ACTIVE, what does Alex plan to do? A property-change event?
19:16:33 <joanie> JS: Yes.
19:18:20 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 6
19:18:20 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ACTION-1535: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-current." taken up [from clown]
19:18:25 <clown> action-1535?
19:18:25 <trackbot> action-1535 -- James Craig to Investigate the axapi mappings for aria-current. -- due 2015-08-18 -- OPEN
19:18:25 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1535
19:18:40 <clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146012
19:18:48 <joanie> JS: I haven't talked to James, but there is an issue in WebKit's bugzilla (URL above)
19:19:00 <joanie> JS: As of yesterday, there's been some code proposed to handle this.
19:19:09 <joanie> JS: It looks like they are going to have a property:
19:19:09 <clown> AXCurrent = "value of aria-current"
19:19:30 <joanie> JS: With provisos if it is outside the enumeration, it defaults to true.
19:19:48 <joanie> JS: The only thing I don't see in the attachment is an event.
19:19:59 <joanie> JS: I will comment on the bug to point this out.
19:21:23 <cyns> having webex problems
19:21:36 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 7
19:21:36 <Zakim> agendum 7. "ACTION-1541: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal." taken up [from clown]
19:21:48 <clown> action-1541?
19:21:48 <trackbot> action-1541 -- James Craig to Investigate and propose mappings for aria-modal property for axapi. -- due 2015-08-18 -- OPEN
19:21:48 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1541
19:22:03 <clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146013#c0
19:22:08 <joanie> JS: I haven't had a chance yet to ping James yet.
19:22:24 <joanie> JS: The above URL is the associated issue.
19:22:31 <joanie> JS: (Reads from issue)
19:22:43 <joanie> JS: Oh, this is a duplicate of another bug.
19:23:06 <clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138566
19:23:19 <joanie> JS: That bug (URL above) doesn't seem to have any progress.
19:23:40 <joanie> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
19:23:44 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:23:44 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping aria-describedby when element does not exist in a11y tree." taken up [from clown]
19:23:49 <clown> action-1104?
19:23:49 <trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2015-08-01 -- OPEN
19:23:50 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
19:24:21 <joanie> CS: Give me a couple weeks.
19:24:33 <joanie> JS: September 15th.
19:24:58 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:24:58 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1309: (Cynthia) UIA and UIA Express mappings for aria-colindex and aria-rowindex." taken up [from clown]
19:25:13 <clown> action-1309?
19:25:13 <trackbot> action-1309 -- Cynthia Shelly to Determine the best place to map aria-colindex and aria-rowindex for msaa+uiexpress and uia. -- due 2015-08-01 -- OPEN
19:25:13 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1309
19:25:51 <joanie> CS: That one is easier. Give me a week.
19:25:58 <joanie> CS: Or just leave it overdue.
19:26:09 <joanie> JS: I'll make a note to revisit this one next week.
19:26:18 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:26:18 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-1373: (Cynthia) Test case for aria-posinset and aria-setsize when provided on only some elements." taken up [from clown]
19:26:27 <clown> action-1373?
19:26:27 <trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements. -- due 2015-08-15 -- OPEN
19:26:27 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373
19:27:07 <joanie> JS: I think this is a matter of saying what the browser should do when they are not provided on every element.
19:27:15 <joanie> CS: Give me two weeks on this one.
19:27:31 <clown> agenda?
19:27:47 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:27:47 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1527: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for aria-current." taken up [from clown]
19:27:51 <clown> action-1527?
19:27:51 <trackbot> action-1527 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate the proper uia mappings for aria-current -- due 2015-08-19 -- OPEN
19:27:51 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1527
19:28:04 <joanie> CS: Did aria-current happen?
19:28:14 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-current
19:28:20 <joanie> JS: It's in the spec (URL above)
19:28:30 <joanie> JS: It now takes values (reads them)
19:28:40 <joanie> CS: Give me a month.
19:29:01 <joanie> JS: October 1st.
19:29:18 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 8
19:29:18 <Zakim> agendum 8. "ACTION-1547: (Rich) Update test cases for rowgroup within a grid." taken up [from clown]
19:29:22 <clown> action-1547?
19:29:22 <trackbot> action-1547 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Update test test cases involving rowgroup to ensure they are included within a grid container and to ensure that the expected result matches the new mappings -- due 2015-08-19 -- OPEN
19:29:22 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1547
19:29:39 <joanie> RS: I don't know what we're going to do about that.
19:29:46 <joanie> JS: Discuss it Thursday?
19:30:01 <joanie> RS: I put out the agenda, but I don't recall putting rowgroup on it.
19:30:15 <joanie> JS: The Thursday agenda has action-1578
19:30:18 <joanie> action-1578
19:30:18 <trackbot> action-1578 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Discuss issue-700 in aria task force meeting. -- due 2015-08-27 -- CLOSED
19:30:18 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1578
19:31:58 <joanie> issue-700
19:31:58 <trackbot> issue-700 -- Discuss rowgroup, tbody, and thead in aapis -- closed
19:31:58 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/700
19:32:16 <joanie> RS: I do not have action-1578 on the Thursday meeting.
19:32:38 <joanie> JS: Oh, I was looking at the August 27th agenda.
19:33:08 <joanie> RS: We're waiting for James. We would like consistency across platforms if possible.
19:33:32 <joanie> JS: So you don't want to adjust the test cases until we finalize this with James?
19:33:53 <joanie> RS: Right, but Michael was going to take the first pass on the test harness.
19:34:30 <joanie> JS: If I make this due October 27, will that work?
19:34:40 <joanie> RS: Sure.
19:34:58 <joanie> Zakim, close item 4
19:34:58 <Zakim> agendum 4, ACTION-1527: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for aria-current., closed
19:35:01 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:35:01 <Zakim> 5. ACTION-1528: (Alex, David) IA2 mapping for aria-current. [from clown]
19:35:01 <joanie> Zakim, close item 5
19:35:02 <Zakim> agendum 5, ACTION-1528: (Alex, David) IA2 mapping for aria-current., closed
19:35:02 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:35:02 <Zakim> 6. ACTION-1535: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-current. [from clown]
19:35:04 <joanie> Zakim, close item 6
19:35:04 <Zakim> agendum 6, ACTION-1535: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-current., closed
19:35:06 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:35:06 <Zakim> 7. ACTION-1541: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal. [from clown]
19:35:14 <joanie> Zakim, close item 7
19:35:14 <Zakim> agendum 7, ACTION-1541: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal., closed
19:35:15 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:35:15 <Zakim> 8. ACTION-1547: (Rich) Update test cases for rowgroup within a grid. [from clown]
19:35:39 <joanie> RS: We also need to get the exit criteria from Michael.
19:35:59 <joanie> Zakim, close this item
19:35:59 <Zakim> agendum 8 closed
19:36:00 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:36:00 <Zakim> 9. ACTION-1593: (Cynthia) Gap analysis of AAPI differences for managed states. [from clown]
19:36:04 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:36:04 <Zakim> agendum 9. "ACTION-1593: (Cynthia) Gap analysis of AAPI differences for managed states." taken up [from clown]
19:36:09 <clown> action-1593?
19:36:09 <trackbot> action-1593 -- Cynthia Shelly to Compare implementations of AAPI managed states and look for gaps. -- due 2015-07-29 -- OPEN
19:36:09 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1593
19:36:38 <joanie> JS: You were going to look at all the managed states and compare different AAPIs and list the differences.
19:36:41 <clown> issue-706?
19:36:41 <trackbot> issue-706 -- Describe/define AAPI managed states -- open
19:36:41 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/706
19:36:50 <joanie> CS: TPAC would be a good timeline for this.
19:37:42 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:37:42 <Zakim> agendum 10. "ACTION-1661: (Cynthia) UIA and UIA Express mappings for aria-roledescription." taken up [from clown]
19:37:51 <clown> action-1661?
19:37:51 <trackbot> action-1661 -- Cynthia Shelly to Propose uia express and uia mappings for aria-roledescription. -- due 2015-07-22 -- OPEN
19:37:51 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1661
19:38:10 <joanie> CS: Is that still active?
19:38:28 <joanie> JS: There's nothing in the mapping guide yet.
19:38:31 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-roledescription
19:38:48 <joanie> JS: The link for the spec is above.
19:39:04 <joanie> CS: I'll do that for TPAC as well. I have some concerns.
19:39:25 <joanie> RS: Some AT vendors have some concerns about it as well.
19:39:46 <joanie> RS: My biggest concern is misuse by authors.
19:41:02 <joanie> RS: Putting it in the API is not as big of a risk.
19:41:41 <joanie> RS: At some point before CR, we should go through the spec one more time.
19:42:22 <joanie> RS: We've agreed up to this point, but we should take one more look to be sure there's nothing being added that is dangerous.
19:44:24 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:44:24 <Zakim> agendum 11. "(Bryan) Discuss selected vs checked state of radio buttons on Windows (UIA)" taken up [from clown]
19:44:35 <joanie> JS: Bryan wanted to discuss this today.
19:44:43 <joanie> JS: Do you have an action/issue associated with this?
19:44:49 <joanie> BG: I have a question.
19:45:12 <joanie> BG: Is IAccessible gone?
19:45:21 <joanie> CS: It's still there in Windows, but not implemented in Edge.
19:45:24 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCheckedTrue
19:45:44 <joanie> BG: In IE 11, selected is used to identify when radios are checked.
19:45:54 <joanie> BG: Everything else in Windows uses the checked state.
19:46:10 <joanie> BG: So if you use JAWS, it reports it's selected and not checked at the same time.
19:46:45 <joanie> CS: Every other radio button in Windows has the selected state.
19:47:00 <joanie> RS: Also, it's a single-select in a radio group.
19:47:57 <joanie> RS and CS: We could modify the implementation spec to address this.
19:48:19 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Joseph remove the MSAA plus UIA Express column
19:48:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1717 - Remove the msaa plus uia express column [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-09-08].
19:48:45 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCheckedTrue
19:49:02 <joanie> JS: The URL above has aria-checked true.
19:49:16 <joanie> JS: The UIA one doesn't say anything about selected.
19:49:30 <joanie> JS: There's a special case for UIA Express.
19:49:37 <joanie> CS: That's an error.
19:49:56 <joanie> CS: Give me an action to double-check this.
19:50:58 <joanie> BG: That brings up the question for me about the difference between selected and checked.
19:51:23 <joanie> CS: In Windows they are different (checkboxes and radio buttons).
19:51:35 <joanie> CS: So if people are using radio buttons as checkboxes it is an author error.
19:52:09 <joanie> BG: No, I mean that there are different keyboard commands, for instance to move focus amongst the elements without toggling their state.
19:52:23 <joanie> CS: The radio group is the control that handles this.
19:52:53 <joanie> CS: In Windows, you would be talking about focus to move amongst the items in the group.
19:53:33 <clown> action:  cynthia to check that the UIA mappings for aria-checked are correct for radio buttons and menuitem radio buttons.
19:53:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1718 - Check that the uia mappings for aria-checked are correct for radio buttons and menuitem radio buttons. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2015-09-08].
19:53:43 <clown> action-1718
19:53:43 <trackbot> action-1718 -- Cynthia Shelly to Check that the uia mappings for aria-checked are correct for radio buttons and menuitem radio buttons. -- due 2015-09-08 -- OPEN
19:53:43 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1718
19:53:45 <joanie> BG: Sounds good to implement both and leave it to the ATs to handle.
19:54:06 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:54:17 <joanie> JS: I couldn't find anything about this in the issues and actions for the mapping spec or for the ARIA spec.
19:54:25 <joanie> JS: Therefore I created a new action for you (Cynthia).
19:54:45 <joanie> agenda?
19:55:07 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:55:07 <Zakim> agendum 12. "Action triage for accessible name calculation (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26)" taken up [from clown]
19:55:30 <joanie> JS: I was going through stuff that needed to be done for ARIA 1.1 and came across this list of name calculation actions.
19:55:43 <joanie> JS: Most of them are assigned to me, a number of them I do not understand.
19:55:54 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCheckedTrue
19:56:00 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
19:56:03 <joanie> JS: So I wanted to bring them up here, give you the URL, and see if you know where they come from.
19:56:16 <joanie> JS: I still have pending to create a flow chart.
19:56:27 <clown> action-1367?
19:56:27 <trackbot> action-1367 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to ARIA bug 2B (control values) does not mention presentational controls; propose edit. -- due 2014-02-10 -- OPEN
19:56:27 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1367
19:57:02 <joanie> JS: Regarding action-1367... All I can think of is that this relates to controls embedded inside another control.
19:57:10 <joanie> RS: But not everything has a value.
19:57:33 <joanie> JS: That's not what this issue says though. And I have no idea what a "presentational control" is.
19:57:39 <joanie> RS: Who brought this in?
19:57:44 <joanie> JS: I have no idea.
19:57:57 <joanie> JS: It was created on the 3rd of February.
19:58:28 <joanie> RS: Let me go back to the list and look.
19:58:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/2014/02/03-aria-minutes.html
19:59:00 <joanie> RS: The minutes from that day are above.
19:59:23 <joanie> RS: There's nothing in here. I don't see anything in here about value.
20:02:00 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/
20:05:57 <clown> action-1379
20:05:57 <trackbot> action-1379 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to TAC should cover rendered descendants from external sources: svg, iframe, etc. (Compose text and get final review form ARIA subteam) -- due 2015-09-25 -- OPEN
20:05:57 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1379
20:09:19 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:09:19 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Cynthia_Shelly
20:09:19 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:09:31 <joanie> scribeOptions: -final
20:09:38 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop