14:01:41 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:01:41 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-tt-irc 14:01:43 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:01:43 Zakim has joined #tt 14:01:45 Zakim, this will be TTML 14:01:45 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 14:01:46 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:01:46 Date: 27 August 2015 14:02:26 pal has joined #tt 14:05:30 Present: pal, nigel, andreas, mike, Courtney 14:05:32 atai has joined #tt 14:05:41 Regrets: thierry, frans 14:05:45 chair: nigel 14:05:48 scribe: nigel 14:06:18 Topic: This meeting 14:07:21 nigel: Checks agenda with group. AOB? 14:07:28 group: No other business 14:07:34 Topic: Action Items 14:08:02 nigel: All the actions in this section on the agenda have had no work done on them, so we'll move on. 14:08:13 Topic: TPAC 2015 14:08:39 nigel: Any issues, agenda requests, queries of any sort? 14:08:55 group: Nothing to discuss right now 14:09:03 Topic: HTMLCue proposal progress update 14:09:09 action-415? 14:09:09 action-415 -- Thierry Michel to Send nigel email addresses of htmlcue proposal reviewers -- due 2015-08-27 -- OPEN 14:09:09 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/415 14:09:22 nigel: Thierry did this - I received the addresses from him 14:09:25 close action-415 14:09:25 Closed action-415. 14:09:30 action-416? 14:09:30 action-416 -- Nigel Megitt to Edit proposal and send to htmlcue proposal reviewers as listed by tmichel, following action-415 -- due 2015-08-27 -- OPEN 14:09:30 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/416 14:10:01 nigel: Apologies I haven't managed to do this one yet, hopefully by the middle of next week. 14:11:44 nigel: I don't think there's anything else on this one - but it's worth noting that the dash.js 14:11:57 ... project has recently merged an EBU-TT-D implementation that takes this approach, and I 14:12:17 ... think had to subvert the VTTCue to do it, but it demonstrates the HTMLCue principle nicely. 14:12:47 mike: The 1.5 release should be next week I believe - the change has been merged. 14:12:59 ... It also supports VTT captions. 14:13:16 Topic: Unicode liaison 14:13:20 action-417? 14:13:20 action-417 -- Nigel Megitt to Create ticket with unicode for cldr proposal, or add to existing one. -- due 2015-08-27 -- OPEN 14:13:20 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/417 14:13:40 nigel: Again, apologies from me - we decided last week to create a ticket for this and I took 14:13:46 ... this action but haven't managed to do it yet. 14:14:51 pal: I'm happy to do this. It's just the act of filing the text of the message we sent before, right? 14:15:00 nigel: Yes, just the same message that we sent to Mark Davis. 14:15:05 pal: I'm happy to do that. 14:15:24 nigel: I wasn't clear if we should add it to the existing ticket or adding a new one. 14:15:32 pal: I may create a new ticket referencing the old one. 14:16:16 nigel: I've updated the action and re-assigned it to Pierre. Thank you Pierre! 14:16:21 pal: No problem! 14:16:47 Topic: ATSC liaison 14:17:20 nigel: There's an email here at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Aug/0041.html 14:18:08 mike: I don't have too much to add - I proposed a response and nigel proposed some edits. 14:19:25 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2015Aug/0019.html 14:21:10 nigel: There was also a point from glenn saying that just using RGB colours and saying that they are in a different colour space might not be enough. 14:21:52 mike: I don't think that required any changes in the message back to ATSC. 14:21:56 nigel: I agree with that. 14:22:15 mike: Essentially we don't understand why they want to use a new colour model. We identified 14:22:29 ... a possible problem of helping presentation processors do the compositing but that's not 14:22:32 ... what ATSC asked for. 14:22:44 ... I think we've captured the sense of the group. 14:23:12 Action: nigel Send response back to ATSC as per https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2015Aug/0019.html 14:23:12 Created ACTION-418 - Send response back to atsc as per https://lists.w3.org/archives/member/member-tt/2015aug/0019.html [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-09-03]. 14:23:56 Topic: @codecs registry 14:24:08 nigel: Again this has been a subject of some discussion over the past week. I believe the main 14:24:22 ... point is to see if we can progress this more quickly than TTML2? 14:25:28 nigel: Glenn had proposed putting the @codecs registry in a separate document a while back 14:25:44 ... but I think we put it back into TTML2 because the IANA guidelines are to put it in the specification 14:26:36 ... that it applies to. If we can separate it out then I don't see why we shouldn't publish separately. 14:26:43 pal: Is there any reason why it can't be a Note? 14:27:02 nigel: Only if it has to have normative status, i.e. it has to be a Recommendation. That would 14:27:05 http://www.w3.org/TR/media-source/byte-stream-format-registry.html 14:27:19 nigel: incur some process delay whichever way we do it. 14:27:27 See A.2 at http://www.w3.org/TR/media-source/#bib-MSE-REGISTRY 14:27:44 pal: The MSE registry posted above is an informative reference, which is a prior example we can reference. 14:27:56 nigel: That's helpful - well specified. 14:28:02 mike: What was the process for that? 14:28:25 pal: None! I think it was consensus of the group to publish it. I remember the exact same 14:28:47 ... discussion in the HTML MSE Task Force - I think they ended up here. So one thought is we 14:29:02 ... could go down that path. I may be able to do some archaeology and dig up the minutes, but 14:29:14 ... maybe we should go down those lines since that's what they do in the HTML Media Task Force. 14:29:21 s/MSE Task/Media Task 14:31:06 nigel: It looks like this is a lookup table to be helpful rather than defining the MIME subtypes itself. 14:31:19 pal: It does more than simply replicate information present elsewhere. 14:31:37 ... It also sets a Generate Timestamps Flag. It has a process for adding entries to the registry. 14:32:34 nigel: I think the draft proposal as it stands now is: 14:32:49 ... 1) Create a WG Note describing the registry and the @codecs parameter usage. 14:33:01 ... 2) Activate the registry page, either on the wiki or on /TR. 14:33:20 ... 3) Also include the syntax for the @codecs parameter and its IANA registration and usage in TTML2. 14:34:05 pal: I think I found the email that closed the discussion... 14:34:47 mike: If there's a history of W3C doing this with WG consensus do we need a note? 14:34:54 nigel: The note would be the expression of the WG consensus. 14:35:27 mike: The registry that pierre linked to isn't even a Note - it's just a Document. 14:35:27 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jun/0027.html 14:36:33 pal: The head of the thread is: 14:36:36 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jun/0013.html 14:37:31 nigel: Seems like this last email suggests it will be okay. 14:37:44 pal: Reading the last email, it seems as though as long as the Registry only references other 14:37:56 ... normative documents that seems to be fine. It doesn't have normative references of its own. 14:38:08 mike: It's not intended to be normative - it's just a process and a table of values. 14:38:22 pal: If you read the entire thread they ran into the exact issue that we have, that the W3C doesn't 14:38:36 ... have an explicit process for registries or things of that nature. Making it a consensus document 14:38:43 ... seems to be a reasonable process. 14:39:45 nigel: Obviously a Note can refer to something non-normative as well as normative. 14:39:51 ... Mike, what's the industry context? 14:40:15 mike: It's inadequate to signal TTML as simply the media type, just as it is inadequate to indicate 14:40:33 ... video or audio without enough information to deduce if it can be decoded. So all of those 14:40:50 ... media streams have a codec value that give more information e.g. profile, bitrate, resolution etc. 14:41:04 ... TTML is just the same. I think it's just adequate to signal the profile to which it complies. 14:41:21 ... MPEG asked W3C what to do about it and W3C offered to host a registry. MPEG was concerned 14:41:34 ... about the long strings that were being used for the profile designators so asked for a more 14:41:45 ... concise value to be used in place of the profile URL. 14:43:06 nigel: I'm aware that we don't have staff present, who may have a view, and I'd like people to 14:43:20 ... have a chance to review the links that Pierre has posted. So I'd like to hold off this as a 14:43:34 ... proposal until next week. Is there anything else to be done in the meantime? Can we draft 14:43:41 ... the document? Is it just the existing wiki page? 14:43:59 https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/CodecsRegistry 14:44:09 mike: That doesn't contain all the profiles that we know about - there are more to add. 14:44:29 nigel: Is there anything else that would need to be done? 14:44:51 mike: I think so, it's been static for a while. I think it's fair to put people on notice that we propose 14:44:57 ... to make this 'live' in the near future. 14:45:34 nigel: Would anyone like to take the action to populate the table with the other values that we are aware of? 14:46:22 mike: I'm happy to do that. We should notify the organisations of what we plan too. I'll try to make them 4 or 5 letters. 14:46:29 nigel: It might be fair to make them all 4 if we can. 14:46:45 mike: If you want them to be meaningful then it will be easier if we allow ourselves to go to 5, 14:46:52 ... such as EBUTT, CFFTT, IMSC1 etc. 14:47:14 Action: mike Add other TTML profiles to the CodecsRegistry wiki page 14:47:15 Created ACTION-419 - Add other ttml profiles to the codecsregistry wiki page [on Mike Dolan - due 2015-09-03]. 14:48:25 nigel: Looking at the agenda, I don't think there's anything else we have to discuss, so I'll adjourn the meeting. 14:48:55 nigel: Thanks everyone! [Adjourns meeting] 14:50:08 rrsagent, make logs public 14:50:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:50:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:57:45 s/well specified/well spotted 14:58:23 s/a note?/a Note? 14:58:31 s/The note would/The Note would 14:59:41 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:59:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:00:56 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 15:00:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:00:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:15:17 nigel_ has joined #tt 15:16:20 nigel__ has joined #tt 16:28:43 nigel has joined #tt 16:31:52 nigel_ has joined #tt 16:59:45 Zakim has left #tt