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14:56:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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14:56:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HCLS
14:56:29 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:56:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference
14:56:30 <trackbot> Date: 04 August 2015
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15:08:19 <dbooth> Topic: pprove Minutes of previous meeting
15:08:30 <dbooth> july 28: http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes_20150728
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15:09:04 <dbooth> s/pprov/Approv/
15:09:28 <dbooth> APPROVED: Minutes of July 28
15:10:24 <dbooth> Topic: computable semantic links from FHIR to RIM
15:11:00 <dbooth> david: first call last week
15:11:07 <dbooth> paul: No discussion on ARB last wk.
15:11:43 <dbooth> Topic: xsd:decimal precision
15:13:30 <dbooth> lloyd: no desire to change FHIR schema to say xsd:decimal .   Grahame will add a warning to implementers to retain precision.
15:14:11 <dbooth> ... What to do with RDF?   Reasoners will only use declared types.  want to be able to do math -- multiply, divide, numeric comparisons.  But need to not lose precision.
15:14:33 <ericP> q+ to discuss closer ties to query in RDF labnd
15:15:08 <dbooth> ack ericP
15:15:08 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to discuss closer ties to query in RDF labnd
15:15:21 <dbooth> lloyd: Probably need to have a separate attribute for the precision.
15:16:48 <Lloyd> q+
15:17:02 <dbooth> eric: we want standard tooling to preserve the precision.  Having two components would do a good job of that: SPARQL could query as xsd:decimal, and a separate query could get the precision.
15:17:27 <dbooth> ack lloyd
15:17:54 <dbooth> q+ pknapp
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15:18:36 <ericP> q?
15:18:39 <dbooth> lloyd: if you're going to xquery, you'll risk losing precision, but you probably won't care.  Need to be cautious about precision when we're reading data and writing it back out.
15:19:01 <dbooth> ... Need more protection in RDF than in other spaces, because you won't round trip through xquery, but you might through a triplestore.
15:19:16 <pknapp> Lloyd: precision concern in FHIR is primaryily in storeage, not so much in XQuery
15:19:34 <dbooth> ... I'll reply to Grahame's email and suggest adding guidance to the schema, and note challenges around xpath.
15:19:40 <dbooth> ack pknapp
15:20:18 <dbooth> paul: Confusing precision and scale?
15:20:31 <dbooth> ... Number of digits does not convey precision.
15:21:09 <dbooth> ... Separate field that conveys precision makes sense.
15:23:10 <ericP> q+ to propose we punt on the conflation of scale and precision
15:23:34 <Tony> q+
15:24:04 <dbooth> paul, please chair while i'm trying to reconnect...
15:26:08 <ericP> Lloyd: typically humans pick units which permit one to capture the precision in decimals
15:26:51 <ericP> ... e.g. instead of 1230000^^whatsits, 1.23^^Mwhatsists
15:27:32 <ericP> Tony: we could define scale instead of precision
15:29:08 <dbooth> q?
15:29:13 <ericP> pknapp: if we preserve scale, and in the FHIR side uses scientific notation or units which preserves precision, everything hangs together
15:29:17 <ericP> queue=
15:32:33 <dbooth> david: proposal to use xsd:decimal to representation, plus an attribute to indicate the number of fractional digits.
15:32:53 <dbooth> lloyd: Cleanest would be to define an extension.
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15:34:41 <dbooth> eric: If we say systolic BP is 150.0, then the quantity has a value property.  it would either need an extension or something else.  easist to have an extension.
15:35:35 <dbooth> david: In RDF, what would be meant by an extension?
15:36:15 <pknapp_> Tony: name the element 'scale'
15:37:57 <dbooth> http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#decimal
15:38:10 <dbooth> http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#rf-fractionDigits
15:39:21 <dbooth> david: propose we call it fhir:decimal.fractionDigits
15:42:58 <dbooth> paul: to make this work, this should be fhir:Quantity.decimal.fractionDigits
15:43:14 <dbooth> lloyd: there are some places where the units are carried separately
15:43:20 <dbooth> ... such as currency
15:44:07 <dbooth> eric: we can apply this to decimal, but it won't be needed for some uses of xsd:decimal.
15:45:47 <dbooth> lloyd: where we have decimal where there are not units, are places we don't care about the precision.  e.g., a search returns a match quality as a decimal.
15:46:47 <dbooth> paul: if someone requires decimal precision, then they either need to document that need and use xsd:decimal, carry the units separately, or use Quantity.
15:47:47 <dbooth> david: propose we call it fhir:decimal.fractionDigits
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15:48:23 <dbooth> AGREED: david: use a separate attribute and call it fhir:decimal.fractionDigits
15:48:57 <pknapp> dbooth: side by side comparisons
15:49:20 <dbooth> Topic: Side-by-side comparison
15:49:21 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=File:FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf
15:49:32 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/images/2/25/FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf
15:50:05 <dbooth> s/david: //
15:51:54 <pknapp> tony: Grahames RDF ontology is accessable
15:52:02 <dbooth> https://hl7-fhir.github.io/fhir.ttl
15:52:07 <pknapp> tony: called FHIR.turtle
15:52:10 <ericP> s/AGREED: david: use a separate attribute and call it fhir:decimal.fractionDigits/AGREED: use a separate attribute and call it fhir:decimal.fractionDigits/
15:55:24 <pknapp> tony: propose getting rid of the schema-only special primatives (code-primatibve, string-primative, etc)
15:55:26 <dbooth> tony: line94 use of fhir:uri-primitive will be changed to xsd:decimal
15:55:59 <pknapp> uri-primative -> uri
15:56:29 <dbooth> s/xsd:decimal/xsd:URI/
15:56:52 <dbooth> lloyd: we would need fhir:code-primitive
15:57:02 <dbooth> tony: we can do that as restrictions on the value
15:57:45 <dbooth> tony: that will be a big change
15:58:17 <dbooth> Topic: Valueset Definition
15:58:24 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/images/2/25/FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf
15:59:38 <dbooth> tony: two ways: codes are instances, and terms align with SNOMED etc types.   But we're dealing with two models: a model and a metamodel.  An instance in the model becomes a type in the metamodel.
16:00:32 <pknapp> David: I have to leave to chair another meeting.
16:00:36 <dbooth> lloyd: can't do that.
16:00:44 <dbooth> ... Code systems are doing two things.
16:01:26 <dbooth> ... You can't list them like on lines 627-640, because codings have additional characteristics.
16:01:45 <dbooth> ... We can only talk about unnamed codings.
18:00:39 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
18:00:46 <dbooth> Chair: David Booth and Paul Knapp
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